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A roadie groupset question

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Started 1 month ago by headfirst
Latest reply from missingfrontallobe

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headfirst - Member

Now I dont want to start a shimano vs campagnolo debate but...

I've currently got a road bike with mainly Sora bits on, and I'm looking to get a new bike with either 105 or Veloce on it (same frame), I'm leaning towards the Veloce as it sneaks in at less that the magic £1k mark for the bike to work scheme, but will I end up regretting it? From the few snippets I've read elsewhere the 'feel' of shifts is different between the two, more positive/'industrial' for the campag, but smoother/less positive for Shimano...

(Well informed, objective and educated) thoughts please.

Posted 1 month ago #
crikey - Member

They both work well, and the choice should come down to what you prefer for aesthetic or ergonomic reasons.

The advantage that I've always found with Shimano is the compatibility throughout the range and the easy availability of spares and the cross-over between mountain bike and road bike in terms of tools.

Posted 1 month ago #
crazy-legs - Member

Can you see if you can test ride bikes with both groupsets?

It's not only about the feel of the shifts, it's the way you change gears and the shape of the hoods.
Personally - I can't stand Campag, I don't like the shape of the hoods, the feel of the shift or the fact that's more difficult buying spares. All my other bikes use Shimano so it makes sense from a cross-compatibility point as well.

Ignore all the "Campag wears in, Shimano wears out" crap, both work fine, it's just down to personal taste.

Posted 1 month ago #
tracknicko - Member

as per crazy legs.

campag doesnt feel nice at all, dont like the hood shape, dont like the shifter mechanism.

shimano good enough, but frankly the sram kit kicks both of their asses.

Posted 1 month ago #
cynic-al - Member

Pretty much what they said, I have used both and would ride either, but choose a mix-n-match on which compenents I think offer best value (Shimano bar all but sti/ergo).

Posted 1 month ago #
headfirst - Member

cheers, I can have a go on mate's 105 bike, need to cop a feel of campag somewhere then...

Posted 1 month ago #
glenh - Member

I've got 105 on my road bike and frankly it feels amazing compared to my mountain bike kit in terms of smoothness and accuracy of shifts etc.
Stuff has an easier life on the road.

Posted 1 month ago #
Pickers - Member

My tuppence worth. I much prefer the shape of Campag ergo hoods, flatter and broader on top, much nicer but personal choice etc etc.
Both Shimano and Campag work very well indeed. Campag front shifters (the ones I've got anyway) are ratcheted rather than indexed and can work with pretty much any front mech - 2008 Veloce shifters/1996 Shim LX front mech works fine with an old MTB triple for loaded touring.
Campag cables also run under the bar tape so look a bit tidier and make bar bags much easier.

Posted 1 month ago #
mrmo - Member

prefer the shape of Campag, plus i think it looks nicer. But i do have a steel road bike and the polished finish of the campag kit i have seems more appropriate

Posted 1 month ago #
crazy-legs - Member

Campag cables also run under the bar tape so look a bit tidier and make bar bags much easier.

New Shimano has the same, fully hidden cables.

Posted 1 month ago #
Dougal - Member

+1 on the Campag hood shape.

Less of a issue now seeing as 2009 campag levers and 2009 onwards new shimano levers have converged on a virtually identical lever shape.

Campag stuff tends to look less tatty with usage; there's no lacquer on the levers that is obvious when it rubs off, something I hated with Shimano 105 levers I had.

All comes down to personal preference I guess.

Posted 1 month ago #
Mister P - Member

New Dura Ace and Ultegra run cables under the tape and I expect the 2011 105 to do the same.

Posted 1 month ago #
aP - Member

New Shimano has the same, fully hidden cables.

...and have you seen the CW review of them?
i personally prefer Campag - the new lever shape is pretty good with a nice selection of hand positions available. I do have a 105 bike - Trek Portland - its ok, but nothing special, and I can see that the lever throw would be difficult for people with small hands.

Posted 1 month ago #
Brendan - Member

Prefer Campag myself, but to be honest they all work equally well and will all last for about the same length of time. Given the prices of Shimano kit at the moment it is also cheaper to buy campag stuff if you shop around.

The new Campag lever/hood shape is very good and to be honest the ergonomic argument is becoming mute as all of the manufacturers now have very similar lever/hood shapes. The key difference with Campag is that you down shift using your thumb.

Shimano 105 doesn't have the internal cable routing.

Posted 1 month ago #
Pickers - Member

New Shimano has the same, fully hidden cables.

Ah, didn't know that. Best ignore that bit then.

...and have you seen the CW review of them?

Nope, what does it say?

Posted 1 month ago #
clubber - Member

Campag, Shimano and SRAM all work well. Anyone who tells you that one is fundamentally bad or inherently better than the rest is talking rubbish. Each have their own advantages and some will suit some poeple better than others.

I'm a campag user myself - I prefer the solid shifting and hood shape.

Posted 1 month ago #
njee20 - Member

Shimano for me.

Can't really contribute anything else to the debate, it's all been said!

Posted 1 month ago #
Brendan - Member

New Shimano has the same, fully hidden cables.

Only on Ultegra and Dura Ace

Posted 1 month ago #
cynic-al - Member

Where are the usual extreme opinions?

Maybe I should start a "shimano chains are best" thread and see if they've really gone away...

Posted 1 month ago #
ChrisE - Member

not that I know anything about it, but arn't CRC doing a full Ultegra groupset for £450 ot the mo?

C

Posted 1 month ago #
tonyg2003 - Member

I prefer campag - my brain is now hardwired for their shifters such that I can't change (pardon the pun) - except for their own chains which are a PITA to join. Instead I use the Ti-Ni KMC chains with a KMC link - very bling. The only non 11spd Campag chains I think.

Otherwise I'd agree - not much between them.

Posted 1 month ago #
zaskar - Member

I've been using 10sp 105 on a bike and 9sp Tiagra on another-both very good Gp sets considering price and weight!

About to try Sram too.

Mtbs I see the build quality and shifting differences between the gps but road gps are much closer in weight and techs with decent build quality as they have similar ride styles/aims -light and smooth.

Even Sram rival has Sram red style carbon shifters Mmmm!

Posted 1 month ago #
Jimbo - Member

Only on Ultegra and Dura Ace

And the recently-launched "new" 105.

Nope, what does it say?

IIRC, the shifting (at the lever end) isn't as good (light/smooth) as you'd expect from Shimano, with there being a fair bit more friction.

not that I know anything about it, but arn't CRC doing a full Ultegra groupset for £450 ot the mo?

CRC, Merlin, PBK, eBay retailers all are, or at least in that price range. Choice isn't amazing though: seems you're limited to 172.5mm or 175mm cranks and braze-on front mechs, and IIRC without hubs. You can buy the bits individually from CRC for about £550, and with that you can choose whatever cranks, cassette and mech you want.

'course, can you buy the "old-yet-perfectly-good" Ultegra 6600 anywhere with 170mm, 53/39? Can you buggery

Posted 1 month ago #
oldgit - Member

To look at Campag it's partly an age thing, but for function Shimano.
However.......
Campag levers feel solid on bumpy hard stuff when you're covering them as the main lever doesn't move, Shimanos can feel a little unsafe in some situations. Which makes them seem ideal for cross, but I got mud in the thumb shift mechanism and they failed, so Shimano wins there.
Still to this day I want to use Campag, but common sense says Shimano.
Then there are things like getting spares Saturday afternoon, that's always going to be easier with the big S.
Not tried SRAM, but I get trade so it's not the money thing.

Posted 1 month ago #
Jimbo - Member

...but I got mud in the thumb shift mechanism and they failed, so Shimano wins there.

FWIW, Campag shifters can be fully rebuilt, whereas Shimano can't. In addition to that, the shifting mechanisms in the new Shimano offerings are horibly exposed. This latter bit is what puts me off the Ultegra 6700 groupset...

Posted 1 month ago #
njee20 - Member

Then there are things like getting spares Saturday afternoon, that's always going to be easier with the big S.

Except there are virtually no spares available. I had to junk a Dura Ace 7800 STI because a cable failed and dropped little pieces of cable into the shifter. Couldn't get it apart to get at them. Campag you can fully rebuild, although I take your point that parts may not be that easy to come by!

Posted 1 month ago #
Mister P - Member

'course, can you buy the "old-yet-perfectly-good" Ultegra 6600 anywhere with 170mm, 53/39? Can you buggery

Madison have them in stock so you can get them. Maybe not at a discounted price though.

Posted 1 month ago #
ChrisE - Member

Shimanos can feel a little unsafe in some situations.

I got my first road bike at Christmas, been out about 5 or 6 times on it for 40/50K at a time and to be honest the whole bloody thing feels unsafe!!!!

C

Posted 1 month ago #
Richie_B - Member

I've used a Veloce groupset on my winter/commuter bike for the last four years. It gets infinitely more use and infinitely less maintenance than my race bike (maintenance amounts to scraping the crud off with a cloth and re-lubing when the chain stops bending). To date it works flawlessly. I've not had any problem getting replacement campag bits (Mercian in Derby seem to come through for you if your stuck) but so far these have amounted to replacement of crash damaged bits and bits I've managed to drop through the gaps in the shed floor when fettling my other bike.

I've nothing against Shimano but its all down to taste.
One reviewer's mechanical clunk is anothers reassuring click, it basically reflects the prejudices the reviewer brings to the bike.

Posted 1 month ago #
Dougal - Member

Instead I use the Ti-Ni KMC chains with a KMC link - very bling. The only non 11spd Campag chains I think.

Veloce is still 10speed, and old-new-stock 10speed of al varieties is still widely available.

Campag levers feel solid on bumpy hard stuff when you're covering them as the main lever doesn't move, Shimanos can feel a little unsafe in some situations. Which makes them seem ideal for cross, but I got mud in the thumb shift mechanism and they failed, so Shimano wins there.

Campag for 'cross is just wrong, even Ernesto himself said so!

Meant to say - I've had really good warranty support from Campagnolo over the years, not that I've had to use it much.

Posted 1 month ago #
myfatherwasawolf - Member

Campag and Shimano are both great in my opinion. I went for Centaur on my present bike, cos it looks nice. One gripe though - every now and then the shift levers behind the brake levers seem to jam, requiring a quick flick of the thumb shifter to release it (if that makes sense to anyone I'll be very suprised). Don't know if that's a common problem (carbon ergopowers)?

Posted 1 month ago #
tonyg2003 - Member

Dougal - Same applies to 10spd Campag chains. PITA the join.

Posted 1 month ago #
Dougal - Member

Same applies to 10spd Campag chains. PITA the join.

Someone did make a quicklink for them, may have been KMC. Whoever it was, they stopped making them, so I bought a mini stock to carry in the back pocket.

At home I have a Park Master Chain tool, so no real issues.

Posted 1 month ago #
oldgit - Member

True about rebuilding Ergos, I posted a few weeks ago about my first total strip down and re build. Was successful as well.
By spares I really meant stuff like cassettes chains etc.

Posted 1 month ago #
clubber - Member

Campag on my CX bike. I really couldn't care less what Ernesto said

Posted 1 month ago #
oldgit - Member

And I meant to ask, don't Campag void the warranty if you off road their kit?

Posted 1 month ago #
clubber - Member

True about rebuilding Ergos

Just in case you didn't know, there are very useful vids on youtube for this.

Posted 1 month ago #
oldgit - Member

The vids are quite usefull, though mine are some of the old ones I'm keeping alive.
I also don't think all the Ergos are rebuildable, someone? implied that the cheaper ones were sealed.

Posted 1 month ago #
tonyg2003 - Member

I have some ancient 8spd record ergos. Bombproof. Still extremely good action, but the least comfortable hoods ever!

Posted 1 month ago #
Dougal - Member

And I meant to ask, don't Campag void the warranty if you off road their kit?

I would doubt it, seeing as the sponsor several pro CX teams.

Posted 1 month ago #