Nice of you to make personal attacks
is that what it was ? I had assumed you took on the Col. Snotty persona for comic effect! TJ, you're very apt to complain about these attacks from all and sundry, to the extent that I think "The lady doth protest too much". If we're so unremittingly horrid to you perhaps you should dispense your wisdom where it receives the reverence you feel it deserves ? I get a lot of stick too, but I never take it seriously 🙂
I think it was the sound of your handbag passing my ear.
brilliant rejoinder :o) [actually LOLing]
Blimey James, glad you're alright.
More importantly how's the bike?
Remember 2 things - 'chicks dig scars' and you should have 'PUT YOUR SADDLE DOWN' (an in joke btw).
Come round for tea later if you're feeling up to it.
Bunnyhop x
I forgot mention that, as he lay bleeding copiously, he several times insisted on knowing how his bike was, so Callum picked it up and checked brakes, wheels and gears etc to confirm everything was working properly. It probably had a soft landing on top of him :o) Later Fay did mischievously asked if we could get some scratch stickers to put on it :o)
Nice one James! heal soon.
Great pics SFB!
I've not ridden with the bogtrotters but the club has good local knowledge and it simply must be safer to ride with them than someone heading out into the unknown alone.
Its not possible to measure how many people riding with the bogtrotters or similar groups have been prevented from getting themselves in trouble by going it alone. I imagine SFB probably has to put quite a lot of effort into organising rides for people different abilities, it must be a thankless task at times, and critising him for having to call 999 on occaisions seems a bit of a cheap shot.
Ouch!!
Cracking pic, healing vibes mate.
it must be a thankless task at times
I don't require thanks, the grins on people' faces (even experienced riders) are more than enough for me 🙂
I make no apology for calling 999 and would do it again in similar circumstances. Also I wouldn't seek to prevent riders from trying the jumps, having seen them successfully taken frequently before. We all make mistakes, and my leadership can be quite negligent at times, but I hope I learn from experience, and most of our rides pass off with no more than an occasional harmless tumble.
"Fizzer - I wasn't there so I cannot say what I would have done"
but you did anyway
"Possible neck injury then 999 perhaps best"
as first aider that is exactly what I did
Here we go again - yes, I should have jumped to my feet and walked out, how irresponsible of me. 🙄 Trust me, that was my option too but, in spite of trying that, I was unable to do so.
No-one there requested the air ambulance (certainly not me!), the OPERATOR sent that as soon as "head/neck injury, facial bleeding" was heard. It was in the area anyway, it got there within 5 minutes.
I wasn't riding anything I haven't done before from UK to Alps/Pyrenees and Utah, I don't alter my "riding style" depending on where I am. On the day, my judgment/timing was wrong - it's just one of those things albeit slightly more serious than most accidents of that nature where everyone claps and laughs, the rider dusts themselves down and carries on.
Fortunately, I was with a good group of people rather than a bunch of keyboard warriors who all know better in spite of being hundreds of miles away...
I think that photo is karma for that one you got of me doing the "glentress superman" 5 years ago.
hey James - hope you heal soon - at least you should be out riding soon unlike me 🙁
Great thread, could have been a page shorter without the sh1te in the middle though!
It ain't just his legs that are Crazy!
Hope you're riding again soon.
Ah well Crazy Legs - it's good that you are OK to be back here typing so that's good news. At least your spill wasn't half as bad as Robert Green's 🙁
Green's spill would have been fatal for some nationalities!!
Green's spill would have been fatal for some nationalities!!
are some peoples more fragile ?
**** me there's some utter drivel been added on here.
Hope your not too sore and achy today James.
Glad to hear you're okay James, hope you're healed up and back out soon.
Iain
get well soon fella
just to add another slant to the arguing about calling for help. i crashed in scotland and walked down back to my car felt not too bad then as if by magic i was in a bed on an intensive care ward waiting for an mri head scan ;-( so you never know what you might have wrong with you. im trained well in first aid too but i couldnt see it in myself
Yeah, I once fell off my Suzuki on diesel on a roundabout. I drove home, walked into the house and passed out in the hallway...
One should not be made to feel guilty for calling the emergency services especially when the mechanism of injury can indicate possible severe injuries.
Glad the fella is okay
[url= http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pC5J1_N1ZM-Evmm8EL0_RCpkO6kx2lQK9MDPXC6TOnlWWa0VYQysDC-VgJ26o4ZcRv0Ly_lFAdtLKnIS4aQJ32w/james_tumble.jp g" target="_blank">
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(click for bigger)
Chriiiist! Why does every thread have to have an argument?
Great pic(s) and glad CL is more or less ok 🙂 That could've been really nasty.
Why does every thread have to have an argument?
uh, with [b]me[/b] in it, how could there not be ?
I don't think it's you SFB.
I don't think it's you SFB
no, but I'm involved 🙂
"Why does every thread have to have an argument?"
uh, with me in it, how could there not be ?
This thread doesn't meet the normal criteria, but with that admission I felt it deserved a tag 😉
This thread doesn't meet the normal criteria, but with that admission I felt it deserved a tag
Yawn
So WTF (w=who) is crazy legs?
So WTF (w=who) is crazy legs?
I got the impression he was an MTB celebrity. Most bikers I encounter seem to know him, or at least of him. But does it matter? it's still a spectacular face plant 🙂
He's in the photo, keep up...
The whole story:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2010/12jun/DSC_0230.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2010/12jun/DSC_0230.jp g"/> [/img] click pic for more[/url]
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/show_album_shot.php?album_id=1091&pic_ident=38 ]Loving all the sympathy he's getting[/url]
🙂
Loving all the sympathy he's getting
no need for us all to be miserable 🙂
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2010/12jun/DSC_0258.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2010/12jun/DSC_0258.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
From the pics I'd say some people need to learn how to fall. Essential skill in MTBing!
For the record I face planted into a tree and walked back to the car park. Walked to the hospital after having a bath and found I [i]had[/i] busted my neck. (I'm just 'ard though.)
So you do need to stop wasting the air ambulance's time 😉
For the record I face planted into a tree
isn't that a head butt ?
Pedantic!
Chriiiist! Why does every thread have to have an argument?
TJ.
Glad that you are okay and that it was nothing too serious. It does look like a nasty off and head/neck/C spine injury was quite a possibility. For future reference you should not be sat up, rolled over etc if a neck injury is suspected and the head should be supported.
Mend well and quickly and get back out there soon.
The first aider prevented anyone from moving him but James insisted on sitting up himself...
Ah okay, and you cant stop them for sure, been there before. The next best thing then is to have someone sit/kneel behind him just in case he passes out and falls back. Good to see you got him laid out later.
I know it shouldn't matter but the term "The normal ambulance crew..." is some what irritating, it's a road Ambulance. Oh and that's not a female nurse, can't work out her grade though.
"The normal ambulance crew..." is some what irritating, it's a road Ambulance.
never heard that term before, you're getting too technical
Oof - bad one. Healing vibes to you.
Have to say, I wholeheartedly agree with TJ's view on the group's track-record though.
I wholeheartedly agree with TJ's view on the group's track-record though.
6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate...
he'd have had no injuries at all if he hadn't been wearing a helmet..
....i'm surprised SOMEONE hasn't mentioned this already
Nice tags. Perhaps the person tagging could actually read what I posted or is that too much to ask?
I did not at any point criticise the handling of this specific incident. I raised a general point about the use of mountain rescue and air ambulances. I also commented that the amount of rescues that the boggtotters seem to need appears excessive so asked if they were calling the emergancy services out when it was not needed.
I repeatedly said that the judgement can only be made on the ground at the time.
However because my view did not meet the consensus on here where people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and rely on others I get absolutly flamed. Its much more fun to flame TJ that to consider any points I might make.
I'd multiply that by the average number of riders per group too sfb, very low rate.6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate...
Edit, TJ you did seem to be very heavy handed in your criticism in your first few posts.
where people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and rely on others I get absolutly flamed.
wrong 1: James believed he was acting well within his capabilities
wrong 2: it was correct to call 999 in the circumstances
wrong 3: that wasn't a flaming 🙂
6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate...
And you reckon that's acceptable?? Let's say a person rides a bike 200 times a year over 20 years (a conservative estimate for an occasional commuter / weekend warrior) - that's 4k rides. At your attrition rate that would be 12 airlifts -for 1 person!
Everyone gets a free pass once - and that should be more than enough for most to reconsider their notions of personal responsibility while away from outside help. I know you ride as a group but, if anything, surely that should [b]decrease[/b] the need for outside rescue?
Once is mortifying but probably just bad luck. Twice is careless, thrice is negligent - beyond that starts to sound disgraceful.
{edit} oh aye, good photo though {/edit}
beyond that starts to sound disgraceful
I'm content with that description and I'm not going to change my behaviour or leadership as a result
LuckyJim
I don't think your calculation is fair. A person is not going to make 200 rides into the wilderness where only a helicopter would reach. If they are commuting by bike, if they get hit by a car they will need an ambulance as I assume most commuters do so on roads. Also, you will have other groups who have never had to call out an air ambulance, just the law of averages. I have been on a Boggies ride and will happily do so again, except my leg is a bit broekd right now (and no, I didnt call an air ambulance 😀 )
Luckyjim usual road commutes aren't counted cos those would just be road ambulance jobs (most riders dont ride to work xc). So lets generously say two xc rides a week average, you're closer to boggies numbers in 20years and your still only calculating for 1 person. AFAIK boggies generally go out in fairly large groups so the callout rate is way down on 0.3%.
hardly a massive call out rate IMHO especially when you consider numbers, newbiness and the dangers of footpath riding.
Some people will do field first aid some will just call 999 what is the point arguing about this we all do what we think is best at the time no one is calling air ambulance for a scuffed knee are they?
FFS we ride MTB we have accidents we call for help they turn up we are grateful.
I visit A&E at least once a year as a result of MTB crashes but have never been in an ambulance since I was 8 and had polio...
6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate
Considering the number of people who appear to turn out on the average Boggies ride, that would be more like 0.01% *per rider*.
And as the majority of MRT callouts in the Lakes are for casual walkers with sprained ankles / heart attacks / lost when it unexpectedly goes dark at night, at least Simon's lot are doing something different to earn the attention 😉
Its much more fun to flame TJ that to consider any points I might make.
Indeed. Maybe if you were less gratingly sanctimonious all the time?
MTFU!been in an ambulance since I was 8 and had polio...
[i]never heard that term before, you're getting too technical [/i]
Ah! Sorry.
Extreme sports eh? Phew.
Extreme sports eh? Phew.
extremely silly 🙂
cant believe this is still going on, jeez!
awesome pic by the way!
[i]Mountain rescue and the air ambulance are not there to allow us to take risks in the countryside. They are there to pick up the pieces when people [s]who have been acting responsibly[/s] have got themselves into trouble [s]even though they have taken sensible precautions.[/s] [/i]
There you go. Fixed it etc etc. I've never yet met anyone from any MRT who would dream of pre-qualifying a rescue attempt. Remember to put money in the cans/tins when you see them chaps...
I am Sure we have all been there; in that second frame, you already know what is going to happen next...and sure enough, it does.
It hurts enough without the slashed face and the stretched neck so good luck to you, fella. I went OTB last week. feel silly for making such a fuss, now!
I come from a kayaking and mountaineering background where waiting for the emergency services instead of self-evacutaing would inevitably lead to death.
but we don't choose those activities or places. Were there to be no prospect of a timely rescue we would have to improvise for ourselves as best we could, at greater risk to the victim.
If you do not have the skills to assess, stabilise and evacuate walking wounded then perhaps it might be an idea to go and get those skills.
I think you're theoretically right, but I don't think I ever will, so we'll just have to muddle through.
I was knocked out in a fall from my bike 2 weeks ago, and had to be forcibly restrained from riding on while not fully conscious (I still have no memory of this), and even when I appeared to be OK, I subsequently lost another 5 minutes while riding and have no idea how I got across the narrow flag bridge over Austwick Beck, so presumably I could have easily fallen onto the rocks there too, and self extraction has its hazards.
Worth pointing out as well that I was staying over at a mate's in Lancaster (convenient given that's where I was flown to and treated!) and they said I was "out of it" on Saturday and "a fair bit better but still not fully with it" on Sunday so I definitely had minor concussion.
I went back to A&E on Sunday for a further check on my back and neck cos it was so painful (therefore no doubt wasting more of their valuable resources - how selfish I am...) Another thorough check and they decided it was no more than severe whiplash although the doctors said I was very lucky not to have broken my neck. SFB showed the paramedics the pictures on the back of his camera at the time and they were in no doubt at all that the helicopter was essential.
so I definitely had minor concussion.
yes, that evening you told me you hadn't been knocked out, but I heard you making that inchoate roaring groan characteristic of unconsciousness (very scary)