[Closed] Chinese carbon frames....

To be honest, for £230 I would go to On-One and buy a nice steel frame or even a scandal.
There are carbon frames that are good and there are carbon frames. I wouldn't be happy on a cheap carbon frame.
I have never owned one so can not offer direct feedback but have owned an Inbred and a Scandal and rate them highly.

My point of view is that it is a bit of a gamble. There are plenty of arguments for and against, but without the ability to pop back and have a chat, it's a gamble.
I feel that if you can afford to lose the money if it goes pear shaped (this includes breakages too), then go for it. If money is a bit tight go for something from a bit closer to home, [url= http://www.pipedreamcycles.com/sirius_wmtb_review.pdf ]Pipedream for example.[/url]
EDIT: I am equally happy with my Orbea Alma and my Pipedream Sirius. 😀

I wouldn't ride a cheap unbranded bike from China regardless of whatever it was made of.
I don't mind paying for the extensive testing that big brands do to their bikes.
[url= http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/ ]This article[/url] is an interesting read on the subject.

Cheers, but already have steel and ally frames... on one looks good but £399, not £230...

So????????

no you buy an expensive branded frame that came from china instead

article = bollocks

I've looked at these in the past, as I'm a frame whore, but would rather save up the extra for some uk people to shout at if it breaks!

i have no problem with the manufacturing quality (as they make frames for the big names) but the geometry may not be the best which is the problem.

As above - if you are on a budget look at On One, Merlin, CRC etc for a half decent, warrantied, reputable steel or alloy frame IMO.

Have been riding a road trek copy for about a year and can't complain. Needed a bit of tidying up / finishing around the head tube but reckon that's par for the course.

Gamble? Maybe, would have been interesing if it had turned up broken, but what are the odds? Had read a lot of would'nt touch with a barge pole comments but mostly I reckon they are compensating for some anxiety disorder.

My dad brought 1 of them frames, the bonding that holds the seat post collar in snapped so the seat post wobble the bb insert creaked, the headset didnt fit in properly and sat to far out the cups. Serously spend abit more and get a carbon 456 from on one or a whippet.

I think Njee20 used to have a carbon frame off Ebay from China and he survived to tell the tale, try asking him?

Just because it's carbon doesn't mean it's good ! How much does it weigh ? It's probably laid up so thick that it's almost solid just to compensate for the low quality materials.

Its not laid up thick at all its very light indeed but when you see 1 in person you realise why.

no you buy an expensive branded frame that came from china instead

Think about it.
Who makes the carbon frames for, let's say, On-One?
On-One? I doubt it, they're probably made in China.
How many factories are there in China making carbon frames? Why not pop over to [url= http://www.alibaba.com/ ]Alibaba[/url] and have a look?
Which of these factories are the good ones?
This is the easy part, I could tell you, but it'll cost. 😀
And this will be just one of the reasons why On-One will charge you just a little bit more than buying direct, warranty being another, etc.
Like I said if you can afford the stake, go for it.
When I decide which route I'll take for my next road bike, I'm sure buying direct from China will be up there.

Plenty of experience over on mtbr

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/chinese-carbon-29er-640919.html

Yep, I had one, and would definitely buy another. Lighter than claimed, well finished, rode nicely. My sole complaint was with the geometry - it had a short top tube, but that's my fault for not checking more carefully.

Sold mine to a friend, still going fine AFAIK. Only sold it as my FS ended up being lighter and the sponsors didn't like me racing an unbranded bike instead of my team one!

if you want to know which factories are the good ones thats easy.

go on then ?

 

Finish the quote old boy...
That'll cost you.
I've got flights to arrange, a couple of hotels, tansport etc....
Where do I send the bill?

thats pretty funny .

when it snaps, and you land on your face, and you are eating your dinner through a straw wouldnt you just wish you paid for something from a reputable and trusted company? how good can it be for that money? its like those cheap chinese 4x4's which visually are 4x4's but dont even register with encap safety ratings....

I assume you're talking about [url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article567349.ece ]only one manufacturer[/url] from [url= http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN/4x4.html ]many[/url], rather than making a sweeping generalisation and scaremongering, munkyboy?
P.S. Don't eat eggs, they're bad for you.

I saw your frame njee you had a diffirent 1 to the 1 he posted i belive . Trust me on this 1 its worth not taking the risk on the guy will only warrant the frame for 6 month's as well

ciderinsport - Member

Cheers, but already have steel and ally frames

If you already have a few frames why buy some cheap POS with unknown design/engineering ?
If you really must have carbon for a low price buy a used Giant XTC or similar. But you still have the risk it will fail or is already damaged.

Why must you have a carbon frame ?

i am in no way slagging chinese manufacturing - they do most high end products these days (all the SC carbon frames are chinese i think?). it is just that they also do the low end stuff too. you just need to know what you are buying into that is all.

it is just that they also do the low end stuff too. you just need to know what you are buying into that is all.

its easy to spot the cheap stuff it says 12k carbon after it

its well known that a sticker makes all carbon frames infinity better, this sticker will cost you a couple of hundred pounds and is available from all well known bike brands.

It depends wholly on where the frames have come from, and by that I mean the factory and not the country.

I've no problem buying a frame sourced from anywhere, provided that it's durable and does what it says on the box. It's easy to judge the geometry, but durability is something that you have to take on trust. If the frame dies the week after and the seller denies all knowledge of you, you're pretty much screwed.

That would be at the forefront of my mind when buying an unbranded frame from the net...

Not read all the responses in detail, but have you factored in the VAT and UK Import Duty?

This item will be above the radar, so unlikely you will avoid it.

One of the reasons not to buy bulk from Taiwan...the discounts never exceed the potential tax.

I would be very interested to hear more...

PaulD

I bought a road frame from here: http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?classid=23

They do mtb frames aswell (much nicer than the ones in your link)

The frame seems ok, its hasnt broken yet, its nice and light and nice and stiff and it was easy to assemble. No VAT or import duty charged.

Try here aswell http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/e_products/?big_id=5

I also didn't pay any tax and import duty on mine.

I'd be more confident in an MTB than a road bike, but frankly I'd use a road bike too. The Deng Fu ones are highly regarded.

its easy to spot the cheap stuff it says 12k carbon after it

I assume you're joking? Or are older Scott frames to be avoided because they're cheap?!

If I were going to go for a carbon frame, it'd be something like a Giant, Spesh or Trek, or from a composites specialist.

I'd not chance my front teeth on a carbon frame from any of the small brands. I doubt any of them have the expertise or cash to test frames as rigorously as the big brands, or audit their suppliers anywhere near as often.

Do you not think these Chinese companies selling frames by the thousand could just be 'composite specialists'?

I'd not chance my front teeth on a carbon frame from any of the small brands. I doubt any of them have the expertise or cash to test frames as rigorously as the big brands,

[img] [/img]

Do you not think these Chinese companies selling frames by the thousand could just be 'composite specialists'?

They are. As a brand / retailer, you don't really want to be in a position where you're at a big disadvantage in terms of knowledge compared to the supplier. That's basically the situation most small brands will be in, because these aren't commodities that meet a standard spec. If you had ex aero or F1 composites bods doing all the specification, then you've got a degree of confidence that they know what they're doing.

Have a look at what Spesh do:
[url= http://www.specialized.com/bc/microsite/fact/testing.html ]http://www.specialized.com/bc/microsite/fact/testing.html[/url]

Then pop round to my house and I'll show you an inbred with the disc mount welded on in the wrong place. The R&D and QC isn't in the same league...

tron- the marketeers dream.

You know Njee the jury's still out on this on are they composites specialists? They employ some very bright people who for their knowledge would earn quite a bit of money if they were in the right environment .however I have also ssen them make what can be classed as schoolboy errors and try to get away with the bare minimum so no I wouldn't say specialist in the true sense of the term and whilst some of them do only specialise in bikes you will also see them trying their hand at other carbon products too. Tthey do learn as they go along however

No I'm not joking about 12k

It's not like China and the Far East are newcomers to manufacturing.. I challenge you to find 5 objects within a 10 foot radius of where you are sitting that [i]aren't[/i] manufactured in the Orient.. (not literally but you know what I'm getting at)

what's confusing me is.. why did On-One's C456 end up looking so.. err.. 'special', when there's obviously some really quite attractive looking bikes being made in China like the examples on the Deng Fu website..?

Seems odd to just want a "carbon" frame, rather than one with a certain geometry and features.

In many respects, it's not about marketing. It's simply not economical for a small firm to put the same time and money into R&D, testing and QA as a large firm if they're going to hit the same sorts of price points.

The major thing to be aware of here is that there's a huge information inequality - the layman buyer (either the end consumer or the specifier at the bike firm) cannot easily assess the quality of what they're buying. The manufacturer will always try to maximise return and that can mean cutting costs. As consumers, we generally aren't in possession of the specialist knowledge required, and so we pass that task onto the bike firm. If the bike firm don't have that knowledge, you're stuffed...

double post...

In many respects, it's not about marketing. It's simply not economical for a small firm to put the same time and money into R&D, testing and QA as a large firm if they're going to hit the same sorts of price points.

The major thing to be aware of here is that there's a huge information inequality - the layman buyer (either the end consumer or the specifier at the bike firm) cannot easily assess the quality of what they're buying. The manufacturer will always try to maximise return and that can mean cutting costs. As consumers, we generally aren't in possession of the specialist knowledge required, and so we pass that task onto the bike firm. If the bike firm don't have that knowledge, you're stuffed...

There's me thinking buying far eastern products direct were cheap cos far east labour and materials are cheap.

Where do you think the big firms get their manufacturing done and how much do you reckon they pay? Or are you saying they have their own locked down factories and staff, with the excluesive rights to quality.

Also what personal experiences are you basing this on?

No I'm not joking about 12k

So you'd write off the Scott Spark, Scale and Genius as cheap because of the cosmetic layer they use? Corking logic, well done! Despite their strident testing.

What about a Chinarello frame with a 1k finish? Is that better quality?