Got my first ride on a 29er yesterday when I demo’ed a Santa Cruz Tallboy at Peaslake. Being 6’ 4” tall I‘d read that 29ers are especially suited to the taller rider and have been wanting to try one for quite some time. I’ve got to say that I was completely underwhelmed by the experience and my Orange 5 blows the Tallboy out of the water in almost every respect. I especially didn’t like the gyro effect of the huge front wheel making steering a very laboured affair, especially on tight singletrack.

At least I don’t have to worry about whether or not I would be suited to converting to 29ers anymore. I guess I fall into the “not for me” camp but I’m willing to concede that a lot of people do like them and they may be better for the type of riding they do.

I would just like to give a big thank you to Howard at Pedal & Spoke in Peaslake who arranged the demo via Santa Cruz. A great guy and very helpful.

It’s good that we’re all different.

I’ve just re-built my 29er after a love hate relationship with it and am liking it again in a different build guise. It’s fully rigid with only 9 gears now and works for the riding I do.

Saying that Trek 69er SS’s are the best bikes ever.

Tim

I tried a Scott Scale on saturday. Ditto underwhelmed & didn’t like the steering feel.
Trying a Tallboy during the week to see if that is any better.

FWIW I reckon you need to learn to ride a 29er what it can do and can’t. How long was the test?

YoKaiser,

I had the bike all day but gave it back after a couple of hours or so because I’d had enough of it. In that time I rode Barry Knows Best, Yoghurt Pots and Reservoir Dogs twice and Telegraph Row all the way once plus obviously all the assorted climbs and tracks in between. I felt like I had given it every chance and was getting more attuned with the bike by the end but still hated the general feel of it.

I can’t really see how “learning to ride the bike” (whatever that means) would have really made any difference to my sense of enjoyment. I rode all of the trails probably about as fast as on my Orange 5 but in my opinion it made the Orange feel lithe and exciting by comparison. None of the supposed advantages of a 29er made themselves apparent to me but all of the disadvantages did, big time.

Well as all 29ers handle exactly the same that’ll save you trying anymore and you can now right off the whole concept. 😉

timbur – Member
It’s good that we’re all different.

I’ve just re-built my 29er after a love hate relationship with it and am liking it again in a different build guise. It’s fully rigid with only 9 gears now and works for the riding I do.

Saying that Trek 69er SS’s are the best bikes ever.

Tim

Spot on! One of each for me, ss and geared. Awesome bikes.

Ive never been to Peaslake , so took a look on Youtube at some of the videos of the trails you referred to in your OP. The first question I have, is do you ride anywhere else other than there, as the bike you tested would be, IMO, completely over biked for the terrain? I know some people have one bike for all and the cost of a Tall Boy would suggest that this could be the case here. To me, you would have more fun and a greater sense of achievement doing those trails on a hard tail 29er instead. Just out of curiosity, could you enlighten me as to why you have chosen the Tall Boy as potential for your next bike? 😕

chainslapp,

I live in Essex so mainly ride Epping, Hainault, Thorndon etc. on a SS fully-rigid or Inbred with 100mm suss up front. We visit places like the Surrey Hills maybe once a month on average and the Dark Peak and Wales when we can arrange (maybe 3 or 4 times a year in total).

At 6’4” the big problem I have with getting demo rides is finding somewhere that has a bike in my size. Mostly they carry size Large or smaller which I have ridden at a pinch but is not ideal. I spoke to a Santa Cruz rep at a demo day a few weeks ago where they had about 20 bikes available across the range but again unfortunately no size XL. He did say SC bikes do come up a bit smaller so riding a Large would not be a fair test but that he could arrange to ship a size XL to the shop in Peaslake.

I spoke to Howard in Pedal & Spoke, the bike shop in Peaslake which is an SC dealer and after calling SC he did manage to arrange the Tallboy in size XL for me for yesterday’s demo. So you can see to a certain extent it was Hobson’s choice but having said that I have always liked the SC range of bikes so would have been seriously looking to upgrade to one in the future if I had been suitably impressed by it.

You’re probably right about the hardtail 29er and I know not all bikes ride the same so maybe I am generalising a bit but I don’t think that I will be looking to get any sort of 29er anytime soon based on yesterday’s experience. I would also encourage anyone thinking of going 29er to at least ride one first and especially the bike they are thinking of buying. That obviously goes for any bike really but it’s surprising how many people don’t demo a bike before committing serious cash.

If I can arrange to get a decent demo on a 29er hardtail in my size at some time in the future then I will be prepared to give it another go.

forzafkawi, you have probably heard people harping on about how 29ers roll better over the terrain and that a 100mm front fork seems longer. IMO, it is all true and I find that at 6 foot tall some of the negatives, like slower steering and wheel to toe interface issues, are small compared to the positives. But as someone has already said we are all different and they are all bikes after all.

I noticed from your response that you seem to be riding HT at the moment, have you a FS bike as well?

chainslapp,

As I said in my OP I have an Orange 5 as well. With everything I had read about 29ers I was looking for all the positives that have often been mentioned such as lower rolling resistance and carrying speed/momentum. I can honestly say I just couldn’t detect them, all I really noticed was the ponderous steering, the slow acceleration and the harsh ride in general. I was very careful to make sure that the suspension was setup correctly for me by the way.

I so wanted to like this bike but just didn’t I’m afraid in any way apart from the obvious quality of build that you would expect from SC and paying £4400. It would be interesting to hear from other riders who have ridden the Tallboy because SC had a demo day at Peaslake a few weeks ago and I saw a few of them being ridden around then.

the harsh ride in general

I believe you would be the first person in the world to find a FS 29er to give you a harsh ride.

I believe you would be the first person in the world to find a FS 29er to give you a harsh ride.

I guess it depends on your frame of reference. If you came from a 100mm forked, 26″ hardtail then the Tallboy would seem quite plush. All I can say is compared to my 140mm travel Orange 5 that it felt harsh (on descents that is of course).

I’ve tried the Tallboy but didn’t like it either. For me it was less a fun bike and more an XC racer, certainly different than The more you ride 29ers the less steering and more body you use. For most people a day just isnt enough to make this change.

If you want to try a 29er hardtail and are down Swiney way let me know. I’m 6′ 4″ too so have a couple of the right size.

I know what a 69er is, but why are they good?

29ers aren’t for eveyone, 2 hours isn’t really a fair test against a bike you ride all the time though

tga – It’s difficult to say. I resisted riding one for ages saying they looked wrong and were freak bikes but when I finally was forced to try one I fell for it with 5-6 miles. It’s just ace as a SS. Quick, nimble and lots of fun.

lots of fun

Well that’s the main thing I suppose!

29ers aren’t for everyone, 2 hours isn’t really a fair test against a bike you ride all the time though

I realise that, however I did try to give it a fair crack of the whip and tried to keep an open mind about its handling characteristics. But what is the alternative; buy one and hope it grows on you because everyone else says its great?

As I said in previous posts, its negatives were just too apparent for me even over a couple of hours. I don’t see how I would ever get over that and I can’t believe that the Tallboy’s charm would eventually ‘out’ and win me over. I’m sure there are those that have one and ride the shocks off it and enjoy it immensely, it just doesn’t suit me and my riding style and never will as far as I can see.

All 29ers aren’t the same though, the TB is a race bike more than a trail bike and you’d probably feel the same riding a 26″ xc fs race bike and then riding your 5. have a go on a UK designed frame before you give up

But as I said 29ers aren’t for everyone

Feedback from customers who have taken out our demo 29ers has always been positive.
Somethig is odd here?
It sounds like you had the wrong bike: whether that be too much travel for the trail, to much stem, wrong size or whatever… Because the steering should not be “very laboured” if the bar and stem is right.
Not being able to detect the “supposed advantages” also is odd. You should have thundered along and noticed extra grip.

Not dismissing your experience, it’s just very different to all the 29er feedback and also personal experience I have had.

Maybe the advantages are more obvious on a Hardtail where the suspension doesn’t dilute or discuise what’s going on?

What rocketdog said.

But to add, I grew to love re-connecting with the steel ht, after years of overbiked fs bikes. And that tied in with me growing tired of trail centre type trails & looning down hills. When the 29er came along it was like I’d rediscovered all of what I loved about mtb again. But, total respect for being honest about the SC, & good on them for organising a demo.
It is perhaps an unfair expectation though, comparing it to a bike like the 5; that’s always going to have the edge if your pushing hard over technical stuff.

And I love the slower steering on my 29er. 🙂
Must be my age.

All 29ers aren’t the same though, the TB is a race bike more than a trail bike and you’d probably feel the same riding a 26″ xc fs race bike and then riding your 5. have a go on a UK designed frame before you give up

Good point rOcKeTdOg and something in all the 29er PR that I had overlooked. I really wanted to have a go on an On-One hardtail and will probably wait for the new Scandal 29er with the swap dropouts to come out later this year. I wouldn’t be using it for Peaslake though, more for fast training blasts around my local trails.

I haven’t given up on 29ers completely.

Well im with you on the 29er thing.I dont think the full suspension 29er amounts to much more than a big tractor dulldozing its way thru everyting.Gr8 if your a crap rider but nowhere near as much fun of versatile as the 26 equivalent.As for the Tallboy it was probably a good bike to try as it seems to be one of the better trail bikes around.Ive tried one and found it a bit uninspiring.I think where the 29er thing comes into its own is on the hardtails.There certainly seems to be some advantage to be had.I have a Swift for race duties and it works well.But like bellybuttons we all have an opinion

But like bellybuttons we all have an opinion

Coasting – You are quite right, everyone has an opinion and those opinions have been considered in a lot of the posts above and to repeat, 29ers aren’t for everyone. No one is forcing the OP to like them.

Not wanting to hijack in any way, but since the right people are on this thread, can anyone very briefly compare/contrast the Swift and Karate Monkey?

well done for trying it out. better than the usual 29ers are crap statements made by people who have no time riding one.

thegreatape – firestarter has had both and would probably be one of many you could talk to on here.

I have enjoyed both swifts and monkeys.
My favourite by a twisty dusty mile is the Niner Sir9. Clearly illustrates that not all bikes are equal. (or indeed equally priced. 🙂

Interesting thread.

I’ve got a rigid HT 29er and a Prince Albert with 140mm up front. I’ve got to the point where I’m not that keen on taking the PA out, especially to Holmbury, Peaslake and the Surrey Hills (my usual riding places) where in theory the bike excels; I find myself taking the 29er because the riding is more ‘fun’. I agree with some of the statements above – I don’t think a few hours on a Tallboy on BKB, Telegraphs, etc, is truly representational of what a 29er can or cannot do. In fact, I would think that demo-ing said bike there would probably give most people a negative view of it, truth be told. I think a HT 29er might be far more fun on trails like that.

However, if the OP tried the bike and didn’t like it for the type of riding he’ll mostly be undertaking, then no amount of persuasion will work. Me? I wouldn’t ride an FS bike for similar reasons, but that’s just personal preference.

Good luck though. I’m in the process of selling of all but one of my bikes and just running a Vassago Jabberwocky as my main ride. SS, rigid (unless anyone has some Rebas 29er for sale…!) and good fun.!

[Quote]I have enjoyed both swifts and monkeys[/quote]

Phrase of the day!

I have enjoyed both swifts and monkeys.

The RSPCA have been informed.

Some interesting and well reasoned opinions on this thread I think. I think that I gave the Tallboy fair test but accept that it is not the best tool for the Surrey Hills area.

I would definitely like to try a hardtail sometime and will probably be contacting Charlie to see if I can arrange a demo on the Niner SIR9 because that looks more like the type of bike I would be interested in.

I wonder why the OP was trying the Tallboy? he has a hardtail and a Five already, what were you expecting the difference to be?

Not liking 29er’s isn’t an issue, it’s the idiots that state they are pants without trying a few that are the problem (which the OP isn’t)

Personally I am growing to like 69er FS, a conversion of an old Jekyll has breathed new life into an old frame.

So, similarly to big n daft, is there any reason not to stick a rigid 29er fork and wheel on the front of my old Kona to give it a try? Or will that bugger up the geometry too much, as it is quite an old one and only has a short travel fork on it just now.

I ran my 26″ Inbred with 29er rigids, worked great; but didn’t like it with the 29er front wheel on though. Too slack.

Rigid seems to work better on 29″ for me.

(Speaks he who’ll be spending this evening building a Pro2 onto his front wheel to try out the maxle Rebas he’s got stashed in the garage. Just to see what a bouncy fronted 29er ht is like.)
🙂

had a swift, very comfy ride suited to long days in the saddle, rode 300 mile offroad round the highlands last september on mine.
2 of the guy’s were riding orange fives and suffered from fatigue far more than me.

had 2 surly k monkeys, very hasrsh rear end, suited to shorter rides, but ideal to build into a hooligan type 29r hardtail.
i built my last one up with white bros 140mm forks, and it was good for looning about on.

got a ventana el capitan 29r, so far it has been ace at most things.
i am a very unskilled rider, and i love it’s skill compensator ride.
i can straighline most stuff instead of wasting time picking a line.
it rides like a rigid 29r up climbs with the pro pedal on, yet with the pro pedal on a softer setting and the seat down it is one of the very few 29rs that is truly DH capable.
with 780mm bars and a 60mm stem the steering is like a normal mtb, no slower, deffo not hard to steer.
anyone in 2 minds wether to take the 29r jump is more than welcome to come a ride mine to see what think prior to buying.

Not wanting to hijack in any way, but since the right people are on this thread, can anyone very briefly compare/contrast the Swift and Karate Monkey?

I own both and run them with their standard rigid forks. Apart from that they are both set up quite differently with the Swift running a 1X9 drivetrain and risers and the Monkey with a 3X9 drivetrain and drops. I find the Swift is the much livelier and better handling bike. The Karate Monkey also handles well but always feels a bit more sluggish than the Swift no matter what set up I go for, especially when going uphill. It just doesn’t have that added bit of sparkle that a truly great frame should have. That said, with the right tyres the level of grip is great.

Both are very comfy and like all 29ers once you get them up to speed they feel pretty relentless. The KM in particular will roll over and through most things with no real bother.

In terms of the frame design the Swift is a bit more focussed and not as versatile as the KM in terms of what you can do with it but that is also one of the downsides of the KM; its a bit of a jack of all trades, and I bought it for that very reason, but it does require a bit more work to get it set up just so. The Swift has had the same set up since I built it and felt right from the get go. For some reason I’ve had a lot of hassle trying to get the riding position comfy enough on the KM and I may have to go for a layback seat post at some point as I always feel like I’m being forced into too forward a position on it. Depending on the drivetrain you use the KM has loads of clearance for big tyres.

The Swift is more expensive that the KM but there is a difference in quality. Thats not to say that the KM isn’t well made because it is (and pretty bombproof) but the Swift just feels the more quality product and, lets face it, looks better.

Back from WRT and it was my first time riding a 29er a Swift with rigid forks and I must say I was really impressed really comfy and reassuring if I can say that.

I was worried about the rigid fork and was considering getting a susp fork in due course but I dont think there is a need.

I can see me riding the swift a lot and taking my Zesty for only the really gnarly stuff – time will tell.

All I know is I will not be getting rid of my 26er FS as with the recent price increases etc I cant justify buying a new one again versus what you can build a decent 26/29er hardtail

I heard Cy Turner in that video of him talking to the engineering institute when he said that there were still a few things to sort out on 29er geometry. Especially the trail, offset and castor (or something) which means that some forks give a dead feel to the ride, whereas others have it nice and sharp.