Anyone else tired of being fed bullshit by the industry media, particularly about Fox?
I’ve had a fair few forks now, and every time it’s “previous harshness issues are long gone” before we all go out and buy them before realising that harshness issues have not gone and we’ve been duped again. Likely due to ad spends. Cue promises of massively improved performance by re-tunes, adding volume spacers etc etc. More bullshit.

Anyways, who has put this right? Options?
Cane creek helm – heavyish but silky beautiful ride. OK’ish rep – the inline had some problems.
DT Swiss F535 One – semi-coil, the lightest option of those listed but reviews are almost unanimously fantastic. Have I fallen for this before? I do trust DT Swiss., everything else I have ever had from them has been excellent unlike the shit Fox Transfer.

Vorsprung smashpot into my 36 RC2’s. Likely works. Clever. Good outfit, Vorsprung. Reasonably priced but a fair weight penalty.

Push ACS3 coil. Lots more expensive than the Vorsprung. Is it better? They have a great rep.

I’d love to hear feedback from those with experience of any or all of these options. New forks would mean that I could put Fox firmly in the rear-view but it would be nice not to spend too much money if at all possible. Thanks!

Avalanche.

Fitted the Smashpot to my Lyriks with fast damper (installed a year ago), they are now so good, better tracking, silky smooth and confidence inspiring.
Much cheaper than a new fork and I don’t need a bloody shock pump👍

Uk distros? Seem to have been dropped by all who have been involved with them which isn’t encouraging.

I’ve been impressed to manitou forks. The Mattoc to be specific. Cheap, easy to maintain and they work really well. Better than pikes (stock and with upgraded damper and coil conversion)

Looking forward to the 180mm fork they’ve got coming out.

The limiting factor of my riding is me, not fork plushness.
That said, I still can’t get my Yari’s to be as plush and good all round as my old F120 Fox 32’s.
I agree that the aftermarket ‘bodges’ are a reaction to things not quite being right in many forks.
But eldest_oab has Charger damped Pikes and they are brilliant things.

I picked up a new set of Fox 36 ebike forks for £400 for my RC627 recently and they are brilliant.

None of the posh expensive floats I have had come close to vans.

Loving my Yaris, cheap as chips, decent performance, reliable, grip, comfort etc…

I’ve been impressed by the Lyrik RC2s. But if hunting for maximum plushness a good coil fork seems the best bet. I bet the Vorsprung Smashpot works brilliantly, that man knows his stuff!

I long to be awesome enough to test the limits of the range of modern forks

Avalanche. I know because of the exchange rate the cost puts a lot of people off, and the weight weenies world would melt at adding 300g to your forks. But its really that good. I’d happily buy a 2nd had set of old 36 or yari’s and send them over to the US to have a avy damper fitted, than buy a £1000 set of new fox 36.

I fully agree Wrecker. I’ve had quite a few RS forks over the years and the 140mm Revelations I got last year were awful over repeated hits, seemed to almost lock out. As Mike alludes to, it’s certainly not a case of being awesome, more that their limits were so easily found.
I bit the bullet and bought the retrofit Charger 2 damper and Debonair spring (they’re basically Pikes now) and the difference is night and day.

don’t worry about mike, he’s a bitter little man.
avy is a no – too expensive, and i have had pikes before. They were OK but I think I’m after coil. must be too awesome for air like the thousands of other riders in the market for all of these coil options……..

If all the forks you try are harsh, maybe it’s not the forks….

Air forks – forever messing with air pressure, tokens, adjustments, annoying dimples filling with grease …. had the PUSH coil conversion on lyrics and in the year since I haven’t had to do a single thing with them, just get on with riding.

If all the forks you try are harsh, maybe it’s not the forks….

That’s not what I said. Maybe read it again?
That’s good to hear rich, thanks.

Now I may not be gnarly enough to have found their limit, but my 2015 Marzocchi 350CRs are by far the plushest air forks I’ve owned.

IMO companies try to over complicate air forks, to many adjustments, valves, tokens, etc.
Marz had the right idea by keeping it simple. Rebound adjustment, simple comp adjust, and if you want to reduce volume in the air spring you add a bit of oil. Lowers dropped and seals serviced in under 10 minutes with one Allen key.
Even changing travel is an easy 15 minute job.

Of course they’re owned by Fox now, so that’s all probably gone out the window now 😄

I do feel that if no-one had invented weighing scales then we’d never have even invented air forks. The MTB buying public care way too much how much their bikes weigh despite them being so light compared to their riders.

Got an ACS3, the Smashpot fork I tried was better. Less harsh on deep bottom outs – but controlled. There is no bounce from deep compressions that you get with air forks or the ACS3 – and the 20 clicks of bottom out adjustment let you dial the travel you are using to within millimetres. The fork I tried them on has been transformed by going to coil.

My RC2 Fox’s are not harsh with my AC3 in them at all though.

The Cable Creek Helms have a much more heavily damped tune, the helm we have had also had more problems that RS or Fox. Maybe you run your Fox’s to open an create harshness that way.

Suntour, any of them from Epicon upwards. Fit them, set them up, forget about them and just ride your bike. Sod the badge on them and stop worrying about the minutiae.

IMO companies try to over complicate air forks, to many adjustments, valves, tokens, etc

It’s you lot and some media types banging on about simple to set up forks, the ones that don’t know how to setup suspension that meant the rest of us had to suffer with low speed compression and a lockout for a number of years and shit about trying to get suspension tuners to get what we wanted by talking to them over the phone and sending the forks back repeatedly.

If you don’t want to think about it, get a fork with less adjustment. But leave the rest of us who know what the knobs do and how to bracket alone.

Besides, really good adjustment is dead easy to use and transparent to set up. Like, the old Lyrik RC2 and its dad the Boxxer R2C2, every click did something and you could tell what it was, even a novice to fork setup could watch a youtube video or read an article then go for a ride and by the end have a good setup- then by a couple of rides later have a great one.

I don’t think that’s true of my 36s though. For one thing I’m way out at one end of the damping which isn’t a good start. I’ve got a setup I like but it took some time and effort, I think a lot of people would struggle. I really like the forks, but I think this is a black mark against the design

It’s not a coincidence, good design is easy to use. But I think sometimes people prefer baffling setup options as it makes them feel clever when they make it work? And it can seem more impressive too, if you think about it the wrong way.

I use a fair amount of LSC with RC2 36s, it’s just the high speed valving that’s a bit heavy – I use about 4 clicks of that. It’s nothing a reshim couldn’t sort. The RC2 could probably do with finer detents on the HSC as well.

The Grip 2 is a fair bit better in this regard.

For balance, I could never feel muh difference with old Lyrik Mission controls. My Fast Pike and my 36 adjustments had a much bigger impact.

What Northwind said. Good design is easy to use.

It’s you lot and some media types banging on about simple to set up forks, the ones that don’t know how to setup suspension that meant the rest of us had to suffer with low speed compression and a lockout for a number of years and shit about trying to get suspension tuners to get what we wanted by talking to them over the phone and sending the forks back repeatedly.

If you don’t want to think about it, get a fork with less adjustment. But leave the rest of us who know what the knobs do and how to bracket alone

Not what I meant really. I can use adjustment, is just that superfluous adjustment, or stuff that seems to do very little is just pointless.

Based on what I own/run….

Marz 350CR – simple adjusters that all do something tangible.

CCDB inline (I know it’s a shock, but it’s relevant) – lots of adjustment, but what they do is quite obvious, and again gives tangible results.

Manitou Magnum Pro – lots of adjustment, but apart from the lockout none of them really seem to make any difference. Still a good fork though, but setting up seems a bit of a shot in the dark!

Anyway, setup cyclelifes fork by first setting the begining and midstroke up on DH3 at Greno – lots of square edged hits and a few berms and jumps to get the comfort, chassis balance and braking support right. We ignored the amount of travel being used and simply focussed on getting the beggiining and midstroke to feel good. Blinded him to the setting changes and eventually found compression and rebound settings that felt substantially better than anything else – he kept choosing that setting as the best feeling. We then dialled in the bottom resistance on a drop with a fairly flat landing, he is now riding with a lot more confidence. What’s awesome is that setting the bottoming resistance did not effect the rest of the settings one bit – no rebound changes needed to be made – no overly harsh spring rate ramp up.
..etc etc.

Spending time on setup not only makes the bike fit how you ride, instead of altering how you ride to fit the bike – it also gets you to feel what the bike is doing beneath you.

Manitou Magnum Pro – lots of adjustment, but apart from the lockout none of them really seem to make any difference. Still a good fork though, but setting up seems a bit of a shot in the dark!

Finer clicks can be really hard to tell a tangible difference, did you try bracketing though? This helps you feel the change. Start with full closed on say the LSC, then fully open, then 1 click from fully closed, then one click from fully open. Etc etc etc. You can try 2 or 3 click changes instead of 1, till you hit a rough sweet spot.

Some forks offer really fine adjustment so an average weight rider can’t totally bork the settings, others like my old FAST charger damper would give you the freedom to really screw the fork up – eg fully open on the HSC was scaryily uncontrolled.

“Besides, really good adjustment is dead easy to use and transparent to set up. Like, the old Lyrik RC2”

The current Lyrik RC2 is easy to dial in too. Leave LSC and HSC open, set sag to about 25%, tweak rebound to taste. Adjust air pressure (and thus sag) if more firmness or plushness is required. Vaguely bracket the LSC (I think I’m
About a third of the way to closed) and the HSC only has 5 clicks so that’s super simple to find what you like. I guess you can add or subtract spacers if the HSC doesn’t get your ending stroke perfect.

Got an ACS3, the Smashpot fork I tried was better. Less harsh on deep bottom outs – but controlled. There is no bounce from deep compressions that you get with air forks or the ACS3 – and the 20 clicks of bottom out adjustment let you dial the travel you are using to within millimetres. The fork I tried them on has been transformed by going to coil.

My RC2 Fox’s are not harsh with my AC3 in them at all though.

The Cable Creek Helms have a much more heavily damped tune, the helm we have had also had more problems that RS or Fox. Maybe you run your Fox’s to open an create harshness that way.

Great info, thanks. I have spent a fair amount of time setting up my RC2s. The chap at sprung commented that I had set them up pretty well as they go but I’m still not happy, even with the tokens added. I’m on a HT and I’m not a small dude so I want my fork to feel great. Only yesterday I took 5psi out and dialled off the LSC and HSC. I don’t really get arm pump but I do know that a fork can feel a lot better than mine do (such as the cane creek Helm I tried). I’m erring towards the smash pot. Just holding off in case I decide to go 29.

The current Lyrik RC2 is easy to dial in too. Leave LSC and HSC open, set sag to about 25%, tweak rebound to taste

The BS I particularly hate is when one specification from a manufacturer is seen as the second coming; especially flagship models. Lyrik Rc2; anything with kashima.

My answer? Lower leg service every two weeks. Consistent settings that you refine with experience and time.

New bike has a Charger2 lyrik rct3. I upgraded the spring to the latest spec and really don’t think I’m going to get on with it. Excessive sag for marginal gains I don’t care about. To do a lower leg service you have to depressurise the spring; so much more faff. I’d refined my setup on the previous gen to the point where it had answers for everything but I’m now on trend with a boost 29er so that fork is no more.

But this is mostly me. I’m commenting that “new is different”. All equipment is a learning curve. I’ll work out this new stuff eventually.

To do a lower leg service you have to depressurise the spring; so much more faff.

Why do you need to depressurise the spring?

The current Lyrik RC2 is easy to dial in too. Leave LSC and HSC open, set sag to about 25%, tweak rebound to taste

Fitted a new set of Lyrik RC2’s on Friday and that pretty much sums up the setup, except for adding two tokens (forks came at 180mm, air shaft swapped out for a 170mm). Started off at 90psi, added a bit more lunchtime saturday, then didn’t touch them sunday.

I have a pair of RXF36 coils and I’ve decided I’m between spring rates, was always swapping between the two and then as a result had to change the rear spring to get the balance back. Also find the front of the bike sits low as they are a short fork (see Graves and Keene running custom 170mm versions). They are an awesome fork when it gets rough, bike (enduro 29er) just monster trucks through stuff. I also wanted something new for the enduro and crc had the Lyrik’s heavily discounted.

I thought I was gonna end up with a coil fork, but the lyrik with debonair shaft is good enough that I don’t feel the urge anymore.

For reference, I’m reasonably fussy about suspension feel – but not to the princess and pea level of some contributors. I’m sure you know who I mean.

I’m sure you know who I mean.

I doubt anyone cares who you mean.

I met a bloke out on the trails with a really expensive Whyte whose fork was set with the rebound so high it just rose slowly like the gas struts on a car boot lid. Yes mate, it probably does feel harsh set like that.

My old Manitou Tower Pro (9mm QR) were by far plushest fork I’ve ever had. Mix of both coil and air. Currently on X-Fusion McQueen RC HLR on HT(Freeborn cycles currently cheapest) which I’m just bedding in now. Seems ok so far but only 2 rides old so am hoping will get even better. MRP Ribbon Coil on FS. That is an amazing fork, but it is a Coil and I use it mainly as an Enduro race/trail park bike. Majority of my riding is on the HT.

My biggest bug bear is the loss of high speed compression on most forks these days. My favourite forks were Van RC2’s and my Bis Devilles.

Currently running Mattoc Pro’s with the IRT and they’re pretty damn good, especially for the cash.

I actually altered my old Rockshox Revelations myself by removing a shim from the damping stack to solve the harshness over fast hits, but I’ve been very happy with my Fox 34’s. I’ve just put an EVOL spring in and it’s made them even better.

I think serving them properly is key. Even when forks a new, they might not have been assembled as best they could.

Check this thread from MTBR… https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/fox-34-2017-negative-volume-v-2018-evol-negative-volume-amp%3B-service-suggestion-1059560.html

Lots of people finding that the -ve air chamber was 50% full of fork grease!

I’ve not kept up with new fork tech for the last few years so can’t give recommendations on which fork or damper upgrades.

But I’ve got custom tunes done on two of my forks and old dual air RS Revelation and a Mattoc mk1 fork.

Both times gave the the suspension tuner information about the bike and terrain I ride and the characteristics I’d like to improve and both times they’ve come back very much improved and behaving very well.

I used to service my forks regularly so it wasn’t just the effect of getting a service.

Mmhhh. Harsh forks? Fox?

Have right now three mountain bikes in use and completely moved to Fox forks. I love those forks. Fantastic technology. None of them is harsh. Something must be wrong with your Fox stuff.