[Closed] Fox stantions wear.

this is VERY common. The cost you mention is roughtly right - £70 for mojo to service and IIRC 150 ish for a new crown/steerer/stanchions assembly.

Mojo will typically tell you it's your fault and that you didn't service it every 15.3 minutes of riding, meaning that it's not a warrantee job. If you complain enough they do seem to agree to replace it FOC sometimes.

Plenty of people on here will tell you that it's your fault because their Fox Forx have been fine for 15 years with no maintenance except for a wipe with a metal file on the stanchions every ride 😉

You can try sending it to Mojo and seeing if you'll get it done under warranty but I doubt it. They will probably say you didn't service it regularly enough.This is indeed a common problem with Fox forks (I have had it happen to me twice) and you will need an entire crown upper stanchion assembly.

Fox forx don't like the UK slop and grime. :Fact:

my Fox Float 32 RL's have done exactly the same, after approx 10 months of riding, including a wet winter in wales. i used to wipe the stanchions after every ride. it seems the only way in britain you can hope to avoid this is by either lifting up or replacing the seals fairly often.

not sure what to do with mine, may just keep them going as long as possible and then maybe gets something like rock shox revaltions which should be more durable. either way its crap and annoying cos they were nicely performing forks

Or you can just ignore it and carry on until they are properly borked.

Does this affect Vanillas?

"Does this affect Vanillas?"

It did affect my 05 Vanillas. Mine had significant wear after one year and were "beyond economic repair" about 10 months later. That was from TFT. I replaced mine with Pikes.

Yep

[i]"Does this affect Vanillas?"[/i]

It was the Vans that it happened to. My Floats have been trouble free so far *looks for some wood to touch*.

Mojo will not warranty it.

Mine packed up after less than 20 hours riding and they wanted me to pay over £200 so I told them not to bother and I bought some rockshox

OK cheers. I'm not that fussed because I got my Vanillas for £147 in Canada, but I s'pose I should start looking after them.....

🙂

Why don't Mojo warranty this, Fox forks carry a 2 year warranty

my 06 talas 36's did it too. you could see the stripes where the anodising wore away.

Had this after 4 months with my Fox Forks
Mojo will say as above have said-it'd then whether you can persuade them to show a bit of discretion
Have now bought fork oil and float fluid
Best way(IMO) is to take the lower legs off(every 15 hours or so)
Lets you inspect for any dirt ingress and clean/lubricate the foam rings
It's easier than trying to lift the seals(and to get them to reseat afterwards)
Not sure whether there have been design changes but stripped my lads 3 years old Fox Forks down at the weekend and the foam seals were still lubricated, no dirt and no stanchion wear-maybe some are just better than others
Talk to any LBS and they will all have stories to tell on Fox

Thats coz they were my forks mate... 🙂

Best way(IMO) is to take the lower legs off(every 15 hours or so)

That's going to work well for the 24 hour/multi-stage racers.....

Why don't Mojo warranty this, Fox forks carry a 2 year warranty

Because its not a manufacturing defect.

The reason this problem occurs with Fox forks is due to lack of maintenance. Mojo cant replace every CSU free of charge because the idiot who owns the forks couldnt be arsed to clean them when they were meant to.

This is the reason Im geting rid of my fox forks, because they are worn and I cant be bothered to maintain them. Not Mojo's fault though

😀
Yours were in very good nick Neil- but it was my other lads forks I was surprised about

Ahhh. The younger and cheaper one to keep... 😆

Because its not a manufacturing defect.

The reason this problem occurs with Fox forks is due to lack of maintenance. Mojo cant replace every CSU free of charge because the idiot who owns the forks couldnt be arsed to clean them when they were meant to.

Where does manufacturing defect end and 'unfit for purpose' start.

On the basis that Marzocchi, Rockshox, don't suffer anywhere near as much as it seems Fox do, and also given that Fox apparently didn't have these issues in the past, I'd say it's either a significant design flaw / substandard speccing of the coating or coating process. Hence unfit for purpose.

Alternatively, the design and coating spec has been adequately specified but something has gone badly wrong on the manufacture. Hence a manufacturing defect.

Why doesn't someone issue a small claims writ on this for one or the other and see what the SCC would think of it?

[Interesting that some people seem tolerant to this yet when other manufacturers making for sake of argument 'consumables' encountered manufacturing defects and did warranty their returns they still got a hell of a blasting]

I thought Fox forks have always been like this?? i remember similar stories started to appear after fox first brought out their line of forks in 2002 or whenever it was.

Taking the lower legs of every 15 hours is ridiculous. Thats a couple of times a month in the summer. If they're no suitable for UK use, perhaps they should stop selling them here.

They have always been like it, I had a set of Vanillas when they 1st came out, and they were dead in 15 months.

Taking the lower legs of every 15 hours is ridiculous. Thats a couple of times a month in the summer

So you automatically void the Fox warranty if you use them in a 24 hour race?!

No, you just need to stop mid race for a service

This is surely going to bite them in the ass soon because they're coming on a lot of popular bikes these days. Mine are running fine after a year of heavy use but I'm prepared to expect some wear under the seals now judging by what others have said.

Although, as they work fine I'm likely going to do what 'Poddy said and just run them till they break and get something else.

For a Dust Wiper Seal Quick Clean and Lube (Quickstart) I'm unsure how tight the crush washers need tightening, does anyone know what 50in-lbs or 565N-cm equates to is Nm ?

it equates to 'buy a torque wrench' as if you over tighten it you will shear the soft Al thread off the damper cartridge and will cost you around £80 to get a new one.

edit: mine has Nm and Inch pounds on it

OK smart a*se........I have a torque wrench which measures in Nm, what does 50-in-lbs or 565N-cm equate to in Nm ???

I read this thread and checked with Fox site (I am about to get a bike with Fox forks on).

You DO NOT have to remove the lower legs or change oil every 15 hours.

You DO have to pop off and clean the seals and foam rings, and put a drop of oil on. Looks like a 5-10min job, bit like the really good drivetrain clean I do every few weeks.

Every 150 hours you change oil and do a strip down.

http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/09/Eng/2009_OM_eng.htm

Matt, I was about to do what you suggest myself, but apparantly the "quickstart" takes approx the same amount of time, and lifting the seals with a scredriver is more fiddly than taking the lower legs off. This is all "in theory" though...

Having said that, if you have to pop off seals so often, why not make them 'screw on' or with an easy removal/install - rather than stoopid little slots and bodged screwdrivers and electrical tape - surely someone at Fox could come up with something / a tool to pull and knock back on?

50 inch pounds = 5.649241667 Nm off some Internet calculator, however I will check tonight on mine to make sure

trouble is, matt, people who've done exactly that have STILL had problems...

cheers for that richc

no worries, also reading back I misread your 1st post, and didn't think you already had a torque wrench so sorry about that.

Mind you might save someone an expensive mistake.

After reading these posts I'm sh*tting it now, I've never "serviced" my vans, I've only ever cleaned the stantions after EVERY ride so I'll soon find out when I service them. No visible wear but I guess a lot hinges on how dirty the foam seals are?

Matt
I've tried it both ways and it is far easier taking the legs off
Also if/when you send to Mojo you will get a sheet back which explains to take the legs off

MikeWW, do the "base nuts" come away with the lower legs, or do they remain attached to the stantions when you remove the lower legs?

"holding the lowers steady place your socket on the base nut to protect it then tap the socket with a soft mallet to release the lower legs"

I cant see how you can remove the lower legs without removing the base nuts first but the instructions dont mention this?

Got a bit of sanction wear on my vanillas, i just ignore it. It's like the dent in the down tube on my old 1999 Zaskar, i did it the week i got it and it's still going strong just a bit of cosmetic damage is all.

It's not like they're going to explode.

enfht: The 'base nuts' hold the lowers on and are connected to shafts within the fork.

Loosen the base nuts off - but don't completely undo them - then tap with a hammer to seperate the lowers, then continue unscrewing the nuts (wahey!).

According to mine, 50in/lb is 5.6NM approx.

I asked Mr TFT a similar questionn when I was looking to sell my Lyriks for some 36's, he mentioned that they were having aceelerated stantion wear because the bushing tolerances are not as tight as Zocchies & RS.

This would explain the brake caliper side stantion wearing first as the brake forces would cause high loading on that stantion under braking causing more wear. I think it's a trade off for plushness.

So you could say it's your fault for using the brakes too much!

Had three sets of lowers in 2 years.These forks are overhyped crap. How much are they retail?I had a set of rebas years ago, never touched em', outperfomed the foxs' in every way.Any suggestions as to a replacement,
I've got an Orange 5?

did you buy 3 sets in 2 years? or did you get warranty on them? as if you paid for them they must be the most expensive set of forks out there.

LBS leaned on Mojo to do them under warranty Rich. Chap at mojo rang me and aked what kind of riding I was doing to cause the problems. I live near Cannock Chase so it's not too demanding ffs.He was very nice mind, but no where near as nice as the guy at Rock Shox that I never had to speak to, If you get what I mean?

Experience very similar to mudplugga
Chatted with the mojo guy about Marzochis and Rock Shox. Basically he explained that the Fox was a 'racing' fork and therefore better. He did concede that you could probably run the others for years without touching them but they were stickier.
I would never buy Fox's again but will see how long they last with the prescribed maintenance.

I find it amusing that so many consider fairly complex items like forks as "fit and forget". Perhaps because i only started mountain biking 3 years ago, i can only go on technology since then. No doubt years ago items were "fit and forget" but only because they were simpler.

You can't expect warranty work if you havn't actually adhered to the manufacturers instructions. I recently rebuilt my 32 Vanilla R's with the 15QR lowers only to discover badly worn stantions. The forks were second-hand so i can only assume no servicing was done prior to me getting them. I bought a new upper assembly which even with the new lowers was still cheaper than buying brand new 15QR forks!I then just fitted damper unit and spring into new parts.

I now whip the lowers every 15 hours or so of riding. I have just done it earlier and it takes no longer than half an hour. Thats with a cup of tea going and not rushing. It's a good chance to give the forks a good going over and inspection. Every time i clean out the seals theres bugger all dirt. Pop a bit of Float Fluid on the foam rings and job done.

The real issue is that few people actually read up on what service intervals are required when buying forks. Its a lack of servicing thats the issue NOT manufacturing faults! If you're ham-fisted then perhaps you shouldn't own Fox forks, get something that has bigger service intervals.

I'll get of my soap box now.

Boycott fox forks. after all the new talas QR15 is £750 (and that's if fox prices don't go up shimano style). Why 15mm i ask you? i know why. because if they were a 20mm axle they'd be in direct competition with rock shox who seem to be making cheaper and more reliable forks.

Whilst dirt ingress is an issue, particularly in the UK, dry seals is a major issue when combined with dirty oil.

Dry seals with dirty foam rings is basically sandpaper.. not going to be kind to your stantions no matter how you look at it.

Your forks WILL benefit from being inverted overnight on a regular basis... this allows the oil bath oil to soak the foam and keep things lubed.

Oil changes and cleanups as per matt_out's schedule are also important.

We all lube our chains, and being that a fork costs considerably more than a chain.. I'd be making sure I take more care of my forks.

As for warranty, if you didn't service your car or ran it out of oil, you wouldn't expect it to be warrantied... however that said, I think Mojo have a responsibility to UK riders to help better develop the Fox product for UK conditions. That or help educate riders and make owners more aware of the things that they can do to keep things working superbly.

[url= http://www.mojo.co.uk/media%20pix/ForkFlyerWeb.pdf ]I guess this is a start[/url]

nickegg if i had just paid for new lowers and uppers (and probably a new 15mm hub/wheel build no?) instead of just buying a brand new pair of rock shox i would be defending fox right now too.

nickegg do you also top up the suspension fluid everytime you do a service, 5ml is recommended in each leg apparantly?

nickegg - i disagree!

The complexity of the damper or whatever is inside the fork is irrelevant. The bit that are failing are the seal, stanchions and bushings. Marzocchi had these bits sorted with their Z1/Z2 Bomber forks in 1998 - 11 years ago!

*strokes new 36 TALAS*

I wouldn't stroke them too hard, you will wear through the anodizing 😉

heh heh

I defend Fox because i like their products and my dealings with Mojo have been great. I was running a Pro 2 hub so only needed the adapters. I once had a Rock Shox Pike but found that too heavy and too stiff, that was coil also as i prefer the feel of coils. I then bought the second-hand Fox Vanilla 32 but wanted the extra stiffness of bolt through. I find the 15QR a great balance between a relatively light fork which is plenty stiff enough.

I got the new uppers and lowers for around £270, Mojo did a deal as i recall so that is still cheaper then Rock Shox no?

Disagree away! Some like Fox, some like Rock Shox. I have no reason to buy or try any other brand. Sorry if that doesn't make sense to some.

The issue seems to be that the damping oil is in a cartridge rather than sloshing about in the legs like old Marzocchis so less oil can be used and the fork is lighter...?

It says on the Fox website that the 2009 vanillas have open bath damping. The 36s have a FIT cartridge whatever that stands for. Does this mean an end to stantion wear on 32 vanillas as there will be lots of nice oil sloshing around in the legs?

IMO it is a design fault with the way the bushing is constructed, and poor tolerances. In my Vanillas the bushings were mis-aligned from the factory (I could see it with the naked eye) and wear on the stanchion was inevitable. I solved it by, yes, you guessed it, buying Rockshox.

In regards to Rock Shox pricing, could it be worth considering that the more profitable areas of the Sram empire help to keep costs down? Not every aspect of a business has to be 100% profitable.

Fox being a much smaller entity hasn't got the room to absorb costs in such a way surely?

All forks seem to have taken a price hike. About 3 years ago I considered £400 to be a very expensive fork. I think the other manufacturers have seen that people are willing to pay what Fox have been charging and have upped their prices correspondingly. Pikes have gone up by £30-50 a year for the last 4 years or so by my reckoning. It's not as though you're paying for R&D - they are an old design in the grand scheme of things.

Mine '05 Talas forks were leaking so I took them off to send to get serviced. I noticed a bit of wear so instead bought the oil and seals to do myself; all fine now for about £25.

Not done any maintenance to them since last april ? no wonder there ****ed

After a service 6 months ago, I now have Manitou seals on my '06 F100s. They get thoroughly cleaned after every ride and stanchion's lubed with chain lube...

Seems to work ~ yes I maintain my bikes well, but there's no way 15 hours is a sensible interval IMHO. No (visible) wear so far...

Not bothered to read the whole thing but was just wondering why no one made the conection between 565Ncm and 5.65Nm? Honestly 🙄 😉

My vanillas after less than 2 years riding. The bombers I had ridden in the same conditions for three years showed no such wear. The fork performance of the Vanillas was always great but I'll take Bombers and Pikes anyday for longevity

[img] [/img]

Rockshox are far from cheap. RRP on lyriks is £869 to £949 depending on model.

Mudshark, did you replace them with enduro seals?

this doesn't look like too much of a faff:
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then all you have to do is the other leg.

here's the ESSENTIAL information to all fox fork owners: [url= http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/09/Eng/Content/seal_clean.htm ]clicky[/url]

What's a shop towel??

MrNutt
You've not done it have you?
Do you really think the seal can be lifted quite that easily?
Do you think that the dirt gets caught by the insulating tape when you rotate the seal?
How about pushing the seal back into place?

Have tried it both ways and removing the lower legs is far easier(and is what mojo now recommend)

MikeWW - Member
MrNutt
You've not done it have you?

damn right, I run Marzocchi 66's 😀

😀
Wise man

update, forget the Fox manual and lifting the seals with a screwdriver, the Mojo-recomended process of removing the lowers is quick and easy. I've kept my stantions clean after every ride which must explain why after 7 motnhs of very heavy use by vans look fine when I did the service. The foam rings were a bit dirty but that was all. No visible stantion wear at all, and I checked them very closely. Bit of advice though, get a torque wrench or you'll easily overtighten the base nuts. The worn stantions pic above must have been neglected to get that bad imo

"The worn stantions pic above must have been neglected to get that bad imo "

They got the same amount of TLC that my bombers got. Well actually they got slightly more. The stantions were clean after every ride but all that wear was below the seals.

rockshox are cheap, only need touching once a year for a service and work as well. if fox werent trendy, they'd be in trouble!

Thought I'd bump an old thread...

I thought my 18 month old '08 32 Floats had given up the ghost at the HONC in April. Pissing out oil at an alarming rate and starting to click a bit. They've been used a lot, in all conditions, and haven't been touched in that time, very occasionally I'd drop some wet lube on the stanchions, pump the forks and wipe. But mostly I'd put them away wet and then ride them the next day with crusty mud all over the stanchions.

Replaced them for some vanillas from CRC and left them in the garage assuming them dead.

I took them to one of my LBSs - Psyclewerx (Bristol) btw - as I'd heard they do fork servicing at a good price. I figured Mojo would end up charging me for new stanchions on top of the full service etc and really didn't want to pay for all that only to chuck them on my SS.

What can I say, the stanchions were "like new" according to the mechanic and they serviced them, replaced the seals and supplied spacers/dropped the travel to 100mm (for the SS) all for the very reasonable sum of £54.

I love my new vanillas but honestly, they weren't needed afterall and my Singlespeed has got it's self a rather bling little upgrade!

I've heard all the bad stories about the Foxes but perhaps I just got a good pair...

I've just serviced my Float R 2006 and the insides are fine. They were first serviced in 2008 because they were weeping a little oil. I put the enduro seals on at that time and they're still like new.

I must've got 2 good pairs of Vanillas then. Cleaned after every ride, very occasional maintenance, 1 set of new seals (you might as well replace them if you're doing that job in MrNutt's pic sequence).
No wear at all in 4 years and 3 years..

Talking of that maintenance sequence above - seems a bit pointless to remove the seals like that when removing the lowers is so easy.

the only surprise to me is that this is news to anyone. it's been the same since I can remember.

Same thing happened to me, (cue similar pic to gonfishin's)

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I too was gutted when I first discovered the wear on mine about three years ago. I already knew they needed a service and was considering sending them off to Mojo/TF/wherever.

However, the obvious wear persuaded me there would be no loss in trying to service them myself. If i c*cked it up I could just send them off for a proper service or buy some new forks. So I stripped them down and degreased/cleaned and put back together again with fresh fork oil and taught myself much more about bike monkeying.

Since then, the wear hasn't really got any worse but I now strip them down regularly (did it last night in about 90 mins for my forthcoming 7 stanes trip) and feel much happier doing it myself.

I agree that it's easier to totally strip down rather than try to lift a seal and then replace with the stanchion still sitting there; no chance!

Oh yeah, I just remembered that I also replaced my original seals/wipers with enduroforkseals and the wipers sit below the top of the fork so you ain't getting them out like that anyway.

Does anyone know of a cheap place to buy RS Reba seals. I looked on CRC and they are quite expensive for what is a bit of rubber & foam. I would change them more regular if they werent so expensive.

FWIW i pull the legs off my rebas every 20 or so hours. Why? Because it takes about 30mins to do the lot and i wrote off a pair of Recons in 18mths because i waited.