Following on from the discussion about SPDs and cold feet, I've just bought a pair of Wellgo V12 copies. I've been riding SPDs for the last 15+ years and am a little cautious about going back to flats. I never rally did any serious biking with flatties and I always had toeclips before SPDs.

I understand I'll need to drop my heels a little, but what else do I need to do differently?
I tend to ride agressive xc if there is such a thing, and like to get the odd bit of low altitude air, but am worried about my feet coming off the pedals.

Oh yeah, should I wear my Vans skate style trainers with Sealskinz, or my Goretex trekking type trainers?

Why you making the change?

I tried to go from Spuds to flats, and after a couple of rides went back..
Just couldn't get on with it.. Found i had (even less) power uphills, and general riding I found a lot easeir clipped in..

If it ain't broke- why fix it?

IMHO of course…

skate shoes work better because the sole is flatter than an approach boot. try fivetens if you miss being clipped in, they stick on well 🙂

Ball of your foot for pedalling power, but middle of your foot over the pedal axle for more gnarly descending. Also dropping heels on the downs is good.

You have to relax and weight and unweight the pedals in the right places. If you're tense and stiff you'll get bounced about.

5.10s recommended.

flats, in theory should give you better technique as you are not relying on spd's to keep your feet on the pedals.
You will get used to them but stick with it…it can take some people a couple of months of regular riding to get used to them but i'm sure you'll be happy once you have.
I started riding on flats, rode 9 years of trials on flats and then got a new trail bike and tried spd's for a while, got my confidence up on them but decided to put some flats on it as i do what i guess you'd call all mountain riding, some days i'll ride 4x and dirt jumps other days i'll ride trail centers etc for me they made much more sense but as i'd had such a long time on them previously i was used to them again within a couple of hours.

You'll find it weird spinning away on climbs, especially if it's rough such as the whites climb at Afan.

A good pair of shoes can help. Loads of people i know use 5.10's, i personally use the shimano dx shoes and find them plenty grippy enough on wellgo mg-1's!

So basically stick with them and it should come naturally. You'll find yourself naturally wrapping your foot around the pedal more.

EDIT: ED-O pretty much summed it up although i think i keep my feet in pretty much the same position (more to the front of your foot). You'll find your heels will naturally point down on descents anyway as your weight will most likely be further back. I find it hard to explain that sorta thing as i don't really think about it!

Teetosugars.

I'm changing to see if my feet are any warmer with flats. I'd asked on here the other day and the general thoughts were that my feet would get more use with flats and hopefully stay warmer, It's yet to freeze and already I've had severe discomfort from cold feet, even after trying many different shoes/sock combinations.

If that's not the case, I'll stick the SPDs back on, as at least then, if I can't feel what my feet are doing, I'll know that they're attached to my pedals!

(thanks for the speedy responses, keep 'em coming, good to know it's not just me on here at 11pm!)

as per usual on forums.. another view:

I wouldnt be riding on the arches of my feet and heels down on descents.

As far as jumping goes, just take off bit by bit. Do NOT try and launch off anything full throttle.everything might seem normal until you leave the lip.Then you wish you hadnt lol.wee jumps to begin with.

Fair one fella, to be fair, with a decent set of socks, and a set of Shimano Goretex boots, I find my feet are toastie..

But yeah, I can see where your comming from.

Oh, and Ed as ever, is right.. 5.10s are they way forward…

I'll be interested to see how this pans out..

And no, I'm not trolling- Genuinely interested!

I tried it a while back. I was getting into dirt jumping and so had flats on my gimp for obvious reasons. I also decided to put flats on my inbred for XC (I kept SPD's on my roadbike though). It was easy enough, the dirt jumping taught me very quickly how to bunnyhop properly and how to keep my feet on the pedals over the rough stuff but what I didn't realise was my feet were splaying outwards. I did a 6 hour race and then a 24 hour race and then my knee gave it up. The SPD's kept my feet in line but the flats didn't care. Took a cycling physio to spot the problem, put me back on SPD's for XC at least and all was well. Just a warning.

Jumping/dropping, feet point down, push back into the pedals and pull up. Easy. Some just get it and some don't. Took me a few rides and never looked back. Some I know just couldn't get on with them at all. Local rides, XC rides, uplifts, Canada and the Alps use them for all now. Give it a whirl and see how you get on.

If you're anything like me, you'll probably need to learn to bunny hop again, I went back to flats this year and realised how much I relied on being clipped in to lift the bike. First couple of rides I couldn't keep my feet on the pedals over the rough stuff either.

Flat soled shoes are definitely the way to go, protruding treads get caught on the pedal pins at funny angles all the time.

Snuggly warm feet, and shins intacked, even th epuddles were frozen, but not my feet. Think I could get used to this flat pedal thing!

Just got a set of V8's and some Van BMX flats (£30 from Cheshire Oaks Van shop), it feels very strange at the moment and like Parvis said I cant lift the bike.

I'm going to stick with it for the winter, get out with the lads and crack on.

sounds like another spd frozen foot rider like myself. even in summer!

heels should be down regardless of which pedal system you use.

never feet down coogan.
when i the air your feet naturally point down,you cant stop that as its your brain spotting the landing

you dont need stoopidly grippy shoes either

Man, I was gonna ask exactly the same question tonight! I've had a couple of hairy moments where I've wanted to ditch the bike, but been attached. Got the flats, just waiting for the 5.10's to turn up. Last time I tried flats I hit a few jumps – fairly big for me, 10 – 15footers – and weren't too bad, but didn't feel too secure. Hopefully grippier shoes will help.

Ditto samuri

When I bust an spd I chucked a set of flatties on and after a few commutes and a couple of times round the woods my old knee problem resurfaced and I started to suffer from aching calfs???
Never had a problem jumping/hopping on either…just cannot do it anyway 😛
Back to spuds for me.

you dont need stoopidly grippy shoes either

I'd go with that view too. And I don't like a very stiff sole either, I like to be able to feel the pedals and shift around

I strated off MTBing with clips & straps, and that's how I learned to bunnyhop, then SPDs, then flats (this was early/mid 90s) then went to BMX for a couple of years. I was rubbish at that but it teaches you valuable lessons, like how to bunnyhop properly and what to do when your feet leave the pedals either by accident or on purpose (DO NOT try and put your foot down and stop!!) For example, I've come unclipped in mid air before and had someone behind me amazed that I just landed neatly and carried on….

I'm no great shakes as a rider, never have been, but I know I wouldn't be as good as I am if I hadn't learned to use SPDs and flats. I don't prefer one or the other really, but I can see the advantages of both and I can switch between them seamlessly now

I'd say that if you've never ridden on flats in 15 year's riding, you're gonna struggle like hell, but if you get a decent teacher it'll be worth it. A cheap BMX and especially some shin pads will help you along. 🙂

I use both flats and SPDs (flats in winter on local, deeply rutted routes when it's particularly muddy / sticky and danger of comedy slo-mo headflips).

I do find unweighting the bike over ruts and roots etc a bit more tricky in flats due to the "shimmy factor" , but generally get used to it after a couple of rides.

I would definitely agree that shin-pads are a good idea – the pins on my V8s have claimed a fair amount of skin tax over the years!

I made the same switch a couple of months ago, overall it's been a good experience. Was worried about not being able to bunnyhop anymore, but I've found that when I really need to do it, by some miracle I can, if it's poncing around in the car park I cant. I've just been wearing my walking boots and its been nice when Ive been doing the hike-a-bike sections to have something more suitable. Generally feel more comfortable on the downhill sections. The only negative is that some climbs are a bit more difficult, not really a power problem, just the foot slipping at the wrong time. I suspect i'll eventually go for some combination pedals and the upcoming Greg Minaar 5-10 shoes looks ideal.

feet slipping climbing? seated or standing?

I generally stand when climbing, usually in far too big a gear.

Like a lot of the others I started with good old flats and toe clips, did`nt know anything else. Too old for the bmx revolution and had a dodgy back, knee and ankle when my son started so gave it a miss(30 odd by then!!) Took me a while to convert to spuds because of my knee, ankle and back problems but once I did it was a revelation

My other problem with flats is that I have been using the lift on the up stroke for so long now that I really struggle to climb without that part of the cycle, foot comes off the pedal and loose balance etc.
I also have a knackered tendon in my left foot which gets aches after a while because of the wrap round the pedal effect flatties cause. After best part of 30yrs playing squash my achilles tend to remind me they are there to!!!The constant readjustment of foot position becomes a bit of a distraction and I lose concentration. Just all adds up to me giving up on them.

a few little adjustments can stop that

jedi – Member

a few little adjustments can stop that

To whom are you replying dear sir?

When I did a bit of squash coaching I always used to say that to go forwards you first have to go backwards.

Hugh:
"flats, in theory should give you better technique as you are not relying on spd's to keep your feet on the pedals."

Why "in theory"? – What is the theory behind this?

Isn't it rather like saying "No seatbelts, in theory, should give a Formula 1 driver even better technique, – not relying on webbing to keep their bum on the seat".

Using flat pedals to combat cold feet is a mistake.

I'm a die-hard flat pedal user, and the only problem I have is the fact that there are NO decent all weather flat pedal specific shoes out there. You can't use overshoes either.

For warm feet, stay with SPDs. Trust me, the only thing I hate about flat pedals is the lack of suitable winter shoes.

Skate shoes and five ten things are both crap for all weather XC use (I've tried both). Stick with winter SPDs, go a size up, wear thick thermal socks and overshoes and never feel the pain of trying to mash spikey pedals with numb feet on flexible soled, leaky, mud soaked shoes.

you and makem trekster

Horses for courses,

There's no more 'skill' to riding in flats than in spd's, it's just a different set of skills.

I'd say………

Ditch the DMR copies, they'r too small, get soemthing nearer 4" square to suppourt your foot.

SPD's allow you to get away with being tense on the bike, as it rattles over rocks it can just crash arround and you'll stay on it. On flats you have to absorb each little undulation, otherwise your feet will bounce off (a lot in the first month if your anything like me).

Bunnyhops, unlearn english ones and learn the ammerican variety, much more usefull on the trail.

Jumping, a combination of the above, you have to move your feet up with the bike rather than pulling the bike up with your feet.

SPDs, like suspension, are one of those bike things that I've never tried. I'm using Wellgo V8 copies and Innov-8 Mudrocs at the moment.

Bending your knees and letting the bike move under you stops you being thrown off the pedals.

Thanks for all the comments. It's great to share people's experiences.

Couple of things to reply to though.

Last night was probably the coldest ride I've done this year. Some puddles were actually frozen, so I guess it was at best 2 degrees. I had shorts on and knee pads so my legs were fairly exposed but warm. I also had SealSkinz mid socks and Vans style trainers. My feet remained warm through out the whole ride. My shoes and legs did get a good slashing on a couple of stream crossings but not to the point of saturation. I did the same ride the week before, but on a dry afternoon and by the time I'd finished, I couldn't actually feel my toes and I had the SealSkinz on then too.

So in summary I can confirm that for me, flatties and trainers are a whole lot warmer than SPDs. Although for summer I'll probably go back to the SPDs.

As for technique, I did really concentrate on weighting and un-weighting as opposed to just relying on being clipped in. Through some fast downhill berms I felt I went quicker than with SPDs as I was forcing the bike in to the turns more.
I even tried a 12 foot long tabletop and a 90 degree turn hip jump. I managed to keep both feet on the pedals and landed smoothly. In fact my foot only left the pedal once, when I'd totally forgotten about not being clipped in. I reckon that another 3 or 4 rides of intense concentration and I'll have it nailed.

I'll keep you all updated.

>The SPD's kept my feet in line but the flats didn't care.

Same here – got a big chunk of cartiliage missing in one knee, any twisting really upsets it (actually, both to a degree, I suspect years of sitting on my heels whist playing the guitar stretched the ligaments).

MFCat – WOOP! Sounds like a win all round.

I even tried a 12 foot long tabletop and a 90 degree turn hip jump. I managed to keep both feet on the pedals and landed smoothly. In fact my foot only left the pedal once, when I'd totally forgotten about not being clipped in. I reckon that another 3 or 4 rides of intense concentration and I'll have it nailed.

Sounds like you have your gnarr turned up a few notches higher than me 🙂

(Mr MC posting)

Im in identical position to OP for different reasons- after having second nasty crash in 3 years where I was injured due to not clipping out I'd made a concerted effort to change to flatties. Only managed a few rides and still not tried jumps/drops/gaps yet, but heel-down and legs bent (which means running saddle a little lower) helps on the descents. Currently riding Vans on DMR V12 and Wellgo MG1's (I have little hobbity feet so they arent too small) but may try 5-10s in the new year if I persevere with them. Really need to learn to bunny hop and lift the bike.

Also agree with other poster that flattie technique isn't "better" to spd, just different. Techniques develop to take advantage of available technology.