OK, so I'm having a hard time convincing the likes of epicyclo that Climate change is happening, largely because the discussion turns into an endless discussion about whether scientists can be trusted or whether computer models really work.

There also seems to be a view that until climate change is made "simple" for people to understand that it won't be taken seriously.

So, I found this presentation that actually lets you see some of the physical evidence regarding retreating glaciers for yourselves.

Extreme Ice Survey

I got bored after 5 seconds, what happened in the other 20 minutes? 🙂

Your children died 🙁

I don't have any, which is doing far more for saving the planet than the odd light bulb 🙂

1. There is a big difference between climate change and global warming
2. Only lunatics don't think the climate is changing
3. The debate is about a) why, b) will places get hotter or colder and c) how much will in change?
4. Ice breaks off ice sheets all the time
5. 70% of TED presentations are too smug and earnest to watch

OK, my children died. Would you like to make a joke about that?

CaptJon,

Have you watched the presentation?

Does this mean I wont have to drive as far to the coast?

That will reduce my carbon footprint 😉

thanks for posting that man really enjoyed that.
.4 captjon tired one chap.
i have kids i dont stress to much about it.if they are going to cop it because of this in the next 30 years then its going to happen. no point spending the rest of our lives together crying about it.

Lasted four minutes.

And I'm already a believer!

is it in a sentence though 😉

OK, my children died. Would you like to make a joke about that?

fairly typical bit of scaremongering melodrama there – well done

If you think all the children are going to die due to this it seems an odd choice to have them…..

whats this choice thing you speak of? 🙂

Ironically if you didn't have children it wouldn't happen.

OK, my children died. Would you like to make a joke about that?

No way, you destroying the planet isn't a laughing matter.

Yeah, poor tack for your argument there rightplacerighttime. while I absolutely agree about "climate change" (not "warming" – deemed too confusing for the simple minded who can't understand that it'll lead to some places getting colder), hysterical comments about killing your children only make it easy to sideline you as hysterical and evangelist.

It's the same with capitalisation protests, critical mass and so on – while they are typically predominantly populated by crusties or people regarded by the majority as "different from them", it's too easy to dismiss them. The only way to get the message across is in ways that keep you firmly in line with the masses – eg "one of us"

So most of the landbound ice is melting – big deal. It melting will dilute the salinity of the oceans, slow the gulf stream and the balance will be restored.

Nobody is debating that the climate is changing – what people are debating is what's causing it. You being such an expert you should know that.

tucs hat under arm and claps enthusiastically at clubber.

yes goan but if that happens inners will have to shut.

ithankyouverymuch 😉

nonk – no great loss there.

Max Planck: "a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

I thought we were still coming out of the Ice Age?

rightplacerighttime, the hysterics don't help matters!

bruneep, so?

big deal. It melting will dilute the salinity of the oceans, slow the gulf stream and the balance will be restored.

go on break the habit of these threads and post up a reputable reference 🙄

You know what happens here when the gulf stream , which is the North atlantic drift when it reaches us , Stops arriving.
It will hardly balance out or current temperature will it.
It reduces temperature globally- you realise the melted water is cold dont you?
Why would the temperature regulation of the Ocean converyor system changing or stopping not affect climate? – Can you reference that one from anywhere? Are you claiming it would balance global warming – the thing you dont think is happening now? At least try and stay consistent in your denial. Again can you reference that for me?

The gulf stream drift periodically turns on and off.
When it next turns off (and it will stay off for millenia) we will have the climate of Alaska, bearing in mind that New York is on the same latitude as Portugal.

Clubber,

I wasn't being hysterical. I was just responding in a way that I thought was proportional to Ian's flippant remark.

And with regard to the "simple" thing, if you'd read a couple of the other climate change threads recently you'd have seen that epicyclo had been asking for just that – "simple" evidence that would demonstrate climate change without the waffle and scientific argument.

Also, if people like me don't make a noise about it, just when do you think the masses will be won over to the idea that climate change is important?

Goan said

So most of the landbound ice is melting – big deal. It melting will dilute the salinity of the oceans, slow the gulf stream and the balance will be restored.

The "big deal" is that it will also put most coastal towns, regions like East Anglia and countries like Bangladesh under water.

And quite what will happen if the gulf stream stops isn't something I want to find out.

News Flash – Earth heats up and cools down, the same as it has been doing for the last few million years or so. Things change, species become extinct. World keeps turning, habitants keep evolving.
There's a lot of people getting rich off all this bollocks. You can't change nature

Clubber,

Did you actually watch the presentation BTW?

fwokinfwok,

Did you watch it?

Unfortunately having children in a western economy is about the most catastrophic thing you can do on the list of human factors for climate change. Making a noise about it is pretty pointless once you've made that decision.

Jeeeeeeeeesus

So, some parts of the world will become uninhabitable while others become habitable. If we can forecast that now, where's all the contingency planning for relocation of people, control of population growth, development of farming techniques, sustainability of the future population etc. Or is that not such a politically good thing to do as to get all our heads of state to make some wholesome sounding agreement that may or may not actually make a difference to the rate of change of climate.

You can't change nature

What is polution and greenhouse gases if not changing nature?
No one s claiming we will kill all life in the planet yes an new equilbrium willbe established bu there will be huge consequences for this.
Everyone knows the climate fluctuates over time as wel…what you need to do is explain why the actions of humans has no effect on this natural proces particualirly the [geologically /climactically speaking] fast release of all the stored carbon via the burning of fossil fuels and associated polution.
We can and we are changing nature that us the point.

rightplacerighttime – Member
Clubber,

Did you actually watch the presentation BTW?

No I didn't – can't access it here. Whether I did or didn't is irrelevant to my point though.

Also, if people like me don't make a noise about it, just when do you think the masses will be won over to the idea that climate change is important?

This is where 'people like you' (your words) go wrong. You think that by protesting, shouting about it from the rooftops, etc, people will unquestionably be persuaded. Now, they may do eventually but a much quicker and more effective way to get the message across is in a much more subtle way that doesn't allow you to be easily marginalised as a weirdo (just look how critical mass is viewed by most because of the type of people that they see on it. If all the riders were viewed as being 'normal' you can guarantee that the message would come across better), especially as what you're suggesting is going to make their lives harder (at least in perception) – drive less, use your heating less, etc.

I'm on the same side of the debate as you but would rather that it's marketed (which is what you have to do in the modern world irrespective of the truth of it) effectively rather than just passionately 😉

Mister Crud:

You're thinking of Heinrich events – it's not a periodic switching on and off, it's a reaction to massive and rapid loss of a northern hemisphere ice sheet such as the Laurentide. Greenland is extremely unlikely to go that way so don't hold your breath.

rightplacerighttime,

Unfortunately you can't convince a denier. It's religion, no point trying. What has evidence got to do with it, when there are clearly bigger things at work that we don't understand?

Sooner or later overconsumption needs to become socially unacceptable. The best way to affect things and to make your own abstention the norm, is by going public about what YOU think. There is little point rubbing people up telling them what THEY should think, it doesn't work that way.

So (a plug just for example), I think the Greenpeace Airplot is brilliant and I'm signed up to it. I was also so impressed by those folks on the Houses of Parliament roof the other day I decided to give them £10 a month, – I see it as an investment towards my family's future with one of the biggest paybacks I'm likely to get. I also thought this was a rather less boring video: http://greenpeace-uk.thetarsandsblow.org/, but Deniers shouldn't watch that, it's grist for the mill.

*builds ark*

Ahem…

Unfortunately you can't convince a climate change evangelist. It's religion, no point trying. What has evidence got to do with it, when there are clearly bigger things at work that we don't understand?

The problem here, as Clubber points out, is that we've reached a point where there is an almost Messianic zeal about the climate change cause. To say anything against it is an act of the utmost herecy and you shall be burned alive! (In a low carbon emission incinerator, natch). Show the slightest sceptism about the "science" behind the greenwashing and you're as bad as a Holocaust denier.

Yes, the climate is changing. It always does.