Forum menu
Fitted some Maxxis High Roller 2.2 foldings on my bike prior to an Alps trip after reading on this forum that they were good.
In the dry they've been unreal!
In clay mud though I've found that they are quite dangerous - I'm talking complete loss of control - because they clog up irreparably, even if only touch the slightest bit of sticky mud!
Yesterday I rode a descent on Holmbury that begin with a steep muddy section. I noticed after riding that bit that the bike seemed to be sliding a bit, but carried on. Then the next steep bit came and the bike went completely out of control fishtailing, it was sheer luck that I was able to bring it to a stop without hitting a tree!
The same thing was happening a few weeks ago in Morzine (it was slightly muddy and ended up walking a lot). At the time I thought it was because the mud there was something special. But now I can see it's the tyres, as the same thing happened on my home trails and has never happened before - they're unsafe in clay mud.
I just thought I would post this to qualify the rave reviews of Maxxis High Rollers that I've seen here - they're good, but definitely for summer only...!
Which bit on Holmbury put you out of control?
Mud on Holmburry? I don't believe you!
Besides I rode up there on Friday evening and it was bone dry.
I use them all year round on the same trails around Holmbury Hill and I think they are fantastic, in pretty much all conditions.
That being said: No one has ever said that they are a mud tyre, and therefore won't be as good in deep mud as a mud specific tyre; but to say they are dangerous is being very melodramatic. Perhaps you need to look at your technique a bit.
Oh, and for your information: They don't make 2.2 High Rollers.
Im not a huge fan of Highrollers but it's you, not the tyres. go faster and they'll shed mud
I use them all year round they're a great tyre, used them in Alps, Wales, Scotland, Lakes and Northumberland. In mud, dust and snow just great.
Guess they're not for you.
the bike went completely out of control fishtailing
😆
I wouldn't say they're unsafe, but they definitely skate about a bit in clay.
no problems here
the bike went completely out of control fishtailing
I enjoy it like that :o)
I was riding around Surrey Hills yesterday and it was hardly wet?!?
go faster and they'll shed mud
this.
Bad workman etc etc 😉
Never used em' but they sound like fun 😀
Used them in wet muddy conditions in the Alps a few weeks back. No problems at all. And Holmbury Hill ain't that wet at the moment anyway!
I run them right through from bone dry through to the point where the muds so deep and constant that I'd give up riding, then I swap for swampthings 🙂
I even run a semi slick high roller on the rear and that never feels like its got insuficient grip right up untill the trails are properly muddy.
Nothing works on wet clay, even spikes struggle.
the bike went completely out of control fishtailing
that does sound horrific.. and VERY dangerous.. We should mount a campaign to get them banned immediately before someone gets seriously hurt..
yunki - Memberthe bike went completely out of control fishtailing
that does sound horrific.. and VERY dangerous.. We should mount a campaign to get them banned immediately before someone gets seriously hurt..
yep - ban them now, then virtually every member of Sussex MTB will have to buy new tyres.
Well apart from me coz I have never run a Highroller.
I feel a letter to Watchdog coming on 😉
[i]They're a potential death trap.....[/i]
HR were horrendous in the mud for me.
Location:
One of the steeper trails on the hill...I think it may be cheeky but I'm not sure. Steep chute at top with great views West, round the contour of the hill to the left, steep again, road.
The steep chute at the top was cut up just a little bit, with a tiny bit of mud, but the tyres managed to pick up what little mud there was like ****ing magnets, so it got hairy later on.
I don't think this was rider error, though it's true that I make mistakes on every ride! Without being "I'm a trail god", I've ridden this particular trail probably 500 times, over fifteen years, in all seasons...including snow...I have never had the problems that I had yesterday. The variable was the tyres. On steep stuff it was simply impossible to keep the bike upright with the way those tyres clogged with mud.
So for the record, if you're looking for a good all season tyre that's average in all conditions...just stick with plain unsexy Panaracer Fires...these tyres actually do pretty well in wet clay. Though they're not as good as High Rollers in the dry. I was amazed at how far you could lean them in good conditions. It felt like the bars were about to touch the ground!
Clay is tricky cos it's so sticky. One trick is to drop the pressure a bit. The tyres flex more which helps them shed mud, and at generally low winter speeds you can get away with it. The HR's big side knobs normally dig into most surfaces.
You wanna try 3 year old, bald high rollers on greasy mud, takes tricky to a new level.
Heh, I choose life...
Good tip on the low pressure. I think they were at about 20psi. I wonder if conversely high pressure would've helped - i.e., a more rigid surface might be more inclined to ping the mud away rather than soak it up?
It's academic now as I've changed the tyres, once bitten twice shy etc...can't be doing with it!
A bit of drift is great (cf the drifting thread) sliding down fifty feet of trail desperately trying to bring the train to a halt before hitting the tree is not so much...!
Not sure a tyre exists that won't skate around in clay.
Must try harder 😀
[i] I think they were at about 20psi[/i]
http://network.nature.com/system/photo/000/002/934/original.jp g" target="_blank">
You were running a 2.2 High roller (which doesn't exist btw) at 20psi (20 psi!!!!), to ride a trail that you reckon you've ridden for 15 years, but are unable to give an accurate description or location of, and then you recommend Panaracer Fire xc's as a decent alternative?
You're on a wind up aren't you?
No problems with a 2.35 dual ply HR here (on the rear) and mine is about 30-40 psi.
What tyre for mud? That`ll be MAXXIS SWAMP THINGS then 😆
No problems with a 2.35 dual ply HR here (on the rear) and mine is about 30-40 psi.
Likewise.
I have a single ply HR on the rear. Until very recently I had a HR up front with an ignitor on the rear - swapped out for a Swampy up front when we had the heavy rain a couple of weeks back, but would have happily run that combination yesterday had I been bothered to change tyres back over again.
As it happens I managed to break my nose in 2 places yesterday, but even I'm not blaming the tyres or the mud!
scott_mcavennie2 sums it up well.
Oh, and a near 40 mile loop on the North Downs today, what mud?
i've been running HR 2.35 on the front for the past two years in the Alps and have found them to be brilliant tyres. admittedly there isn't that much clay in the Alps.
now running a 2.4 Fat Albert on the front and don't have as much confindence in them when cornering hard. they seem more ready to wash out than the HR.
Hello there NOT a Mud tyre?? pass
I recently replaced my worn out 2.1 Kenda Nevegal's for some 2.35 single ply High Rollers (super tacky on the front)and have been very impressed with them. They have definitely made me faster and are far better in the corners. They don't feel as grippy going up hill but are a better tyre I think. No probs in the mud as yet.
The thing with HR's are that they work best at some speed and once you've got them on the edges. There's loads of grip on the centre nobbles and on the edges but if you look at the tread there's a fair bit left and right of the centre ridge that hasn't any nobbles. This helps them roll fast on the centre ridge but gives them a 'no grip' feel as you make the transition over to the edges. Best advise is to get them over; let them do their job.
I've rarely used any other tyre in several years of DH racing. I'd plumb for some Advantages for regular UK riding though.
+1 for speed and edge. Never clogged. Lust 2.35 HR front all year, Advantage/Medusa rear both 20 - 25 psi. Never put a foot wrong. XC pros = tractor tyre 😆
Morzine (it was slightly muddy and ended up walking a lot)
nuff said.
The trail is cheeky. I don't know if it was mud due to rain - it looked more like maybe someone had been digging or something, or a small landslide? Just a little muddy patch - but enough to make these tyres (2.35s by the way - apols, senior moment with the 2.2) lose any grip whatsoever.
Pressure - previously I've run them at about 40-50 PSI but recently I've started running them much softer, more like 25-30. But the pressure doesn't seem to change anything. I ran them rock hard in the Alps a few weeks ago and softer yesterday and had the exact same problem I'm describing on both days.
I've ridden a few sets of tires (Michelin Comps, Panaracer Fires, Tioga DH) and only on the High Rollers have I found myself sliding down pretty gentle trails I normally hammer down, utterly out of control, as if on an ice rink, wondering how the **** this situation materialised!
I too saw how dry the whole area was, so I'm even more surprised that these tyres couldn't take what little mud there was.
They were the folding ones - I wonder if that affected things? I can't see how it would.
nb I tried accelerating to knock the crap out of the tyres but you just couldn't safely, you couldn't control the bike's direction at all.
On a more positive note, I've actually been well impressed by Specialized's Eskar tyres this summer (the ones their Enduros are kitted out with). This is doubly surprising because their hubs and shocks are crap!
worra spacker
high rollers do clog badly in the mud, as I learnt in the Alps a few years ago. You just have to go faster to unclog them.
High Roller 2.35 60a compound. Excellent. Has been the only tyre on both of my bikes for 2 years now.
Yes I've got into an uncontrollable fishtail on mud before. I think I needed to go to my LBS and buy a new pair of skill & bottle rather than new tyres!
worra spacker
+1
You were running a 2.2 High roller (which doesn't exist btw) at 20psi (20 psi!!!!), to ride a trail that you reckon you've ridden for 15 years, but are unable to give an accurate description or location of, and then you recommend Panaracer Fire xc's as a decent alternative?You're on a wind up aren't you?
This is pretty much the conclusion I've come to.
HRs are fine in the gloop. Nowt works on claggy clay, deal with it. Fire XCs, LOL.
the problem was the tyres. quick google search says dirt magazine agrees they're bad in mud (any mud). if your high rollers work in the mud it's probably cos you're mincing.
Or because we are able to ride bikes?
The clue is in the "fishtailing" on a Holmbury Hill descent. 😆
Well, if dirt magazine says so, I'm taking mine off...
Well sliding down a hill out of control kind to tells me who was mincing.
WTF?
Wind up, surely. Fire XCs are attrocious tyres, and I fail to believe that a patch of mud caused you any problems. I've ridden with Furious Freds up there, they really have no grip in the wet, and haven't had problems with 'fishtailing' down descents!
Nowt works on claggy clay,
Swampthings do
If you read the dirt review on high rollers and come to the conclusion that HRs' are rubbish in mud then i don't quite believe you understand what constitutes a 'mud tyre' situation.
The he fact is mud tyres are designed for a trail where mud is 90% of the menu, high rollers are designed for an all round tyre and are able to cope with dust over hardpack through loamy and onto wet conditions.
If the bike is fishtailing then it will be because of a dragging rear brake, as a tyre needs to roll to work.
Maxxis WetScreams are brill in mud,
So where is this thread headed?
Product recall for the High Rollers
and
If you can ride them in the wet without twisting your panties, then you're sh*t?
I really rate 2.35 HR's use em most of the year (swapping for Aspens for Meridas etc) agree they can get sketchy in mud BUT reckon most tyres behave like that on greasy clays (was drifting round last night on em)I think they are brilliant all rounders but for clay and tarmac there are better tyres out there...not Fire XCs though 😉
But Holmbury isn't greasy clay, the mud up there just isn't slippery!
This and that other thread are a troll: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/nobby-nic-ust
Don't brake, let the tyre do it's job.
I'm just recounting my objective experience - I ended up sliding down a trail ass over tit in slightly slippery but generally benign conditions, on a trail where normally the grip is very good, and the sole variable that day was the tyres.
Where this thread is going is, I'm posting a review of these tyres, others are qualifying my review with their own experiences, and the end-product is more information for consumers to base their buying decisions on, which is good all round, with a little bit of personal abuse of my riding style/knowledge thrown in, albeit good natured I'm sure, and I'll still be seeing you at the finish line!
Humble Panaracers perform tolerably in all conditions (albeit not "well" in any of them), I do alright on them anyway - even in slippy clay. In contrast, you can totally rip on High Rollers in the dry but they're useless (dangerous?) when it's wet.
The trail was near the old Widowmaker, and it was claggy on Saturday. Reckon it could have been the result of some kind of digging or something (like near the pond by the car park) rather than rain but the result was the same.
Plenty of clay round by me, I use trailrakers all winter. I was one of the few people riding all the time in those bad Mayhems and SITS of a few years ago.
and I'll still be seeing you at the finish line!
Probably not, we'll have all gone home while you're still out lying on your ass complaining about your tyres.
if you want extra braking traction in slippery conditions fit the rear tire backwards
My HR clagged up at the brighton big dog. but then everything did, so no great surprise there.
Actually found the Fire XC not bad when I changed onto those for my last lap.
However, HR back on the bike now and I've never had a problem with them riding round holmbury each week.
Still, each to his own, that's why there's hundreds of tyres out there I guess.
FTR, Eskars are great tyres and very very good value.
At Ruthin yesterday I had HR on front & Tioga factory mud on back & they both managed pretty well on the very very muddy descents.
Bicycle slips on mud shocker, expensive new tyres the answer - Film at 11.
FFS.
Was at Ruthin yesterday & had a HR on the front with a Conti Vertical on the rear.
Front tyre clogged up completely in all but the most watery conditions whilst the rear rarely lost traction. It got so silly that the chap behind me asked if my bike had a hinge in the middle due to the front washing out as soon as i started to pedal, due mainly to the rear gripping & the front sliding sideways at the least provocation.
I was on a fairly slack angled bike though so maybe that had something to do with it?
Hopefully will be better on my local grit-stone based mud.
Then the next steep bit came and the bike went completely out of control fishtailing, it was sheer luck that I was able to bring it to a stop without hitting a tree!
Wow what a horror story!! I'm amazed you have the courage to recount it. 😛
I've found HRs fine in the wet in the Lakes before btw. They do get a bit clagged but it soon sheds.
Does a steeper bike handle better in the mud?
My bike's got variable geometry so I could try that.
I can see how this might work - a steeper head angle means the bike's more responsive to the type of small adjustments that keep you upright in mud.
On the other hand sometimes (most of the time) the best way to get through the wet stuff seems just to bomb through and ride in a very steady, un-twitchy way (like skiing on ice) and for this I would've thought slack geometry would be better.
The best mud tyre I've ever used (admittedly there have not been many) were the old Tioga DH 2.3s (or even 2.1s). They stopped making them I think. Alright but not amazing in dry, perfect in wet.
i managed a muddy ride on 35c touring slicks at the weekend. does this mean;
a) i was mincing?
b) i am a riding god?
thank god i don't have high rollers on my commuter!
The best mud tyre I've ever used (admittedly there have not been many) were the old Tioga DH 2.3s (or even 2.1s). They stopped making them I think. Alright but not amazing in dry, perfect in wet.
Any lasting doubts about you trolling or not have finally been answered; only thing Tioga DH's are good for is chucking on a bike you're selling and never have to ride again
I think the line the only varaible was the tyre is a bit suspect
I find my HR doos all round tyres round here Bedfordshire but I avoid clay
But I think clay soil can be at its worst at a sort of intermediate level of wetness. Wet enough to stick not so wet the tyre can cut into it...
But I think clay soil can be at its worst at a sort of intermediate level of wetness. Wet enough to stick not so wet the tyre can cut into it...
So true
Er I must admit another variable which I've just discovered that might have had some effect is that the bike shop reversed my brakes the last time they bled them without telling me, or seemingly realising themselves (it sounds like a tort case they teach you in law school...).
I know, I know, this is the most retarded thing I've ever heard of too, how did I not notice in a month's riding, etc. I didn't notice until I was spinning my wheels today to check they were true and had to jam on each brake to stop the spin. Oddly there were no faceplants due to grabbing a fistful of front without realising - just traction issues and I couldn't endo when I wanted to.
No doubt any traction issues with the tyre would have been compounded by my handling the rear brake as if it were the front brake and vice versa.
That said I rode the same trail on Holmbury today before I clocked that the brakes were reversed, using a Michelin Comp 16 on the rear and an "unsexy" (but I actually like it) Tioga DH 2.3 on the front (both have been hanging in my garage since 2003), in wetter conditions than last week, without any problems at all.
So in general I stand by my comments on High Rollers but I accept that rider village idiotness had something to do with it too.
You do know you're making it worse for yourself don't you.
[img] 
[/img]
you are either trolling, or incredibly lame.
Reversed brakes
Well its an opinion not a fact
But I'd know every big grab if I was getting the wrong brake....
Great thread though really entertaining
< Shakes head wildly in disbelief >
How the hell could you go for a month without realising that your brakes have been reserved ??? I think I would have noticed the first time I grabbed a lever.
So what LBS do you use ?????
Reversed brakes, and you hadn't noticed?
You don't ride a Lapierre do you, 'cos we saw a load of of guys with big bikes last weekend at the Monument cafe. One of them had his bike upside down and was spinning the front wheel. The wheel was sticking but it was quite obvious that he had no clue as to what to do. After about 10 mins of him looking puzzled his mate came over and showed him how to 'reset' PM calipers...
Must admit on the strength of this thread I put my High Roller order on hold . . . reckon it's safe to go ahead now though 😉
Would that be the comp 16 a tyre with almost identical pattern to high rollers then.
the tires were on back to front.
When you think about it, it's obvious.
I'd try another sport.....
Seriously, this must be the most retarded thing I've ever read - and thats a hell of a statement with nearly 9 years of guff on here.
Are you trolling!?
How the hell could you go for a month without realising that your brakes have been reserved ???
This. Although I'd say reversed, not reserved 🙂
I'm completely unable to take anything you say seriously now! If you think 2.3" Factory DHs are necessary for Holmbury this only confirms my opinion!
I think he needs to change LBS or learn to bleed brakes himself. I still don't believe the brake thing, and don't believe a bike shop would do that. I'm steering clear of Holmbury - there is a riding god charging around there who's brain can instantly adjust to having the brakes the wrong way around.
I got on a bike years ago with MX style brakes and I smacked my nuts on the stem when I thought I was grabbing a handful of rear brake to do a kid skid.
Where this thread is going is, I'm posting a review of these tyres, others are qualifying my review with their own experiences, and the end-product is more information for consumers to base their buying decisions on, which is good all round, with a little bit of personal abuse of my riding style/knowledge thrown in, albeit good natured I'm sure, and I'll still be seeing you at the finish line!
I'll think I'll pass up on your advice... with all due respect.
I got on a bike years ago with MX style brakes
You do know the front brake on an MXer is on the right don't you?
Or are you as daft as the OP?