Bought this bike (Nicolai Helius AM) ex-hire - it had been ridden (apparently) 26 times. I've ridden it in the UK maybe 10 times and for 2 weeks in the Alps.
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Reckon this frame is a warranty claim? I've heard Nicolai's customer service is superb - guess I'm about to find out.
And this is what my stanchions look like - same age. This is inside and not visible until the lowers are removed. Nae bonnie. I'm trying to be cool - these things happen - but should forks used this much (little) look like this? 🙁
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you are being cool about it mate. Good luck.
26 times round the world, maybe...
Ouch! Where did you get it from?
They haven't been looked after very well IMO - 40-50 rides and suspension forks need at least one clean and lube under the seals. I'm not sure about the frame but I would expect wear and teach suspension pivots to be replaceable, and worn pivots not to permanently knacker the frame itself. You are being cool - I hope you got a good deal 🙂
As the old car joke goes - "yes it's had one careful owner.................& 30 terrible ones"
That's mullered. Good luck with a warranty as you're not the original owner.
I hope you got a good deal
I thought I did but now not so sure!! Have emailed Nicolai so we'll see what they say. Dunno what to do about the forks. I think I'm going to have to take that on the chin and rag them till they die - I have no proof of original purchase - they may have been on more than one bike for all I know. More concerned about the frame!
do you use bike cleaner?
edit: not a troll, in reference to stantion wear
Nicolai are pretty good to be fair, the warranty is 5 years and It's transferable.
Your screwed on the front forks, but as others have said, nicolai provide a five year transferable warrantee. Have you actually spoken to them before posting on here? It's one of the first ones I have seen which is broken.
Wow - a transferable warranty? That's extraordinary
Not really. Turner do it too.
Those pivots are lack of maintenance - not warranty.
IMO.
Cleaner - have used Muc Off maybe 3/4 times on it, but generally use washing up liquid and plenty of rinsing. On a separate note, I have used Muc Off disc brake cleaner and it has stripped the paint off other forks and removed the black anodising off spokes! Really nasty stuff.
Muc Off managed to turn the shiny gloss red paint on my Giant to a very matt red effect in seconds. Now using Pedros, only on the chain and cassette.
Very interesting, any chance of a photo of the outer race inside the rocker housing ❓
Does it also have damage or were the bearings forced out via the inner/bore race only ❓
Very interesting, any chance of a photo of the outer race inside the rocker housing
Will do in daylight - but it appears the damage is inner only then wearing through the linkage plate too.
It occurs to me that the BB seized and was replaced in Les Gets too - not having much luck here!
Looks like maintenance issues, I've seen tyres go right through thick chain stays. The forks could be the bushes or more likely looking at the ware patterns lack of lubrication.
What will you do now for a bike?
For 26 times, read 26 weeks?
If you had a rental bike would you show it any mercy?
And why service it when you can sell it on as they have for what they paid trade?
You wont buy a hire bike again im sure
RE Forks, if Nicholi's warrenty is as good as the peeps above say it is, what warrenty did the dealer offer?
Frame parts are now damaged due to bearing/bush replacement not being carried out when it should have.
The fork is the same story.
Over the 20+ rides you have had it,have you never noticed a bit of play in the pivots developing? Going by the state of those,i would guess that they may have started to "go" when you bought the bike.
The uppers show that they might have had bike cleaner around them and left stationary for that to happen.Either that or its been winter road use then left to dry out.demo bikes usually get a hard time when it comes to cleaning as they get washed far too quickly.. and to wash a bike quickly means turning the power of the hose or jetwash up a lot more than you would dream of doing to your own bike! Its usually someone that doesnt own the bike (possibly another shop thats blasted it to death to get it looking "clean" as quickly as possible)
They dont care,as long as its clean.
Still speak to nicolai and see what they can do. I'm sure they will sort you out something though if it is down toack of maintenance then they might charge you a bit. Just to give you an idea, stripping a bike down, sorting out an issues with the frame, new bearings and a new coat of paint costs £400 but then the frame is basically as new then.
Try your luck with the frame, but as regards the forks...if they work just run them. It might not look pretty, but you could try the old nail polish trick. If they hold oil (air?), it wouldn't bother me, just chalk it up to life's great learning curve. Intresting to see what they say re: the frame.
Classic example of why pressure washers should be given a wide birth. If the bearings have had the grease washed out & seized then something's got to move, & that centre pivot looks like its bore the brunt.
Dazzlingboy - take it this was an ex-hire bike from Glentress hub? Just that the 26 ride reference rings some bells. Would be useful to know for people who might be considering buying an ex-hire bike like this.
I looked at doing so a few years back and IIRC they're not cheap, even as ex-hire...
IIRC - washing up liquid is a really bad idea due to the salt content and it's effect on unprotected aluminium parts; you've washed off the grease and replaced it with salt... oops.
I have heard of one other Helius AM with worn bushings... the owner who is a good friend of mine let his back end get sloppy and kept riding it like that for six months. When he came to service it he discovered that the wear was bad and traded the bike for a Helius FR which has bearings instead of bushes. I believe the AM was fixed up as all the damaged and worn parts were replaceable. This had me paranoid about sloppyness in my back end; I spoke to my dealer and got the details and hence in the year I've had my AM I've checked it frequently and nipped it up a few times. I'll do a big service soon but I don't expect to see any problems as I have seen no sloppyness.
I have another friend who managed to bend the linkage plates on his FR and this lead to some problems with wear and binding, but the problems were fixed with new linkage plates. Hopefully all the damaged parts on your AM can be replaced but I would be very surprised if this is warranty? I'm sorry but it looks like wear and tear from poor maintenance
PS. I don't jetwash my bikes... I use water only and maybe a little citrus degreaser where and when I need it.... my bikes always look dirty 😛
Well, can't fault Nicolai on their speed of response - emailed at about 7pm last night and I had a nice reply before midnight!
They can't tell from photos what caused it or if it is a warranty job or poor maintenance or poor setup or whatever - so I've got to pack it off to Germany and we'll see what the boys at Nicolai HQ say.
On the forks - yes as others say above I'll have to live with them, but as they've been only been ridden maybe 20 times since they came back from the Magura service guys (and maybe 50 outings in total) I'd be surprised if lack of maintenance is the cause. But as I have no original receipt, I've no option to go for warranty - at least with the Nicolai they will consider the warranty claim.
What Taki says - Forks work fine so I'll give them a bit of wet n dry and nail polish and keep on riding - once I have a frame to attach them to! I've certainly never used a jet wash on my bike, but I know hire places do, so maybe that is the root of the problem.
The frame looks like it's suffered from a total disregard to basic maintenance. It's very easy to check and adjust the bushes on the Helius frames but it's obviously never been done on that one.
Looks like it's got very slack and the free movement has trashed it.
As above the Nicolai repaint/refresh/renew service should get it back to new again but galling to have to shell out so much cash.
I struggle to believe that it's only been hired out 26 times unless it was for a week at a time.
I certainly have never been aware of it being slack - at least during my period of ownership - and have always kept the pivots tight. But then again I'm no pivot expert!Looks like it's got very slack
Well - an update as I've heard back from Nicolai today.
It would appear that my frame is properly and definitely FUBAR. And as it was ridden while damaged, (thus potentially making the problem worse) they have thrown out my warranty claim.
I can't believe that I caused this damage (unless the frame is made of cheese which it certainly isn't) given the handful of times I rode the bike. I can only assume therefore that it had had a much harder life as a hire bike than I was led to believe when I bought it.
Alternatively the bike IS a dud one from the factory and the issue lies with Nicolai but I can't see how I can prove that.
A total pi$$er. They are going to give me a quote to repair the damage which I can only assume is going to make my eyes water. We should have a sweep - guesstimate how much it's going to cost me!
So that is going to make my ex-hire bike "bargain" a bit less of a bargain. Wish I'd just stumped up and bought a brand new one instead of being a cheapskate and trying to save a few quid.
Moral of the story. Don't take anyone's word for it when they tell you that the ex-hire bike has only been out 26 times and has been fully serviced each time etc etc unless you open the pivots/strip the forks and check it all out yourself.
I'm not Nicolai bashing BTW (just bought another CC frame from here) but I would agree with posts above that lack of maintenance is the issue - but not my lack of maintenance - lack before I bought it unfortunately.
Still - we'll see what price they come up with!
Can you use what Nikolai siad to get a bit of recompense from the dealer? Or was it a "sold as seen?" In which case look a bit harder next time!
I think it's probably time to name and shame the place you got it from...
Ouch. Bummer, mate.
So that is going to make my ex-hire bike "bargain" a bit less of a bargain. Wish I'd just stumped up and bought a brand new one instead of being a cheapskate and trying to save a few quid.
Aye, I have also learned this lesson over the years. Has not put me off second hand, but I am very fussy....
Can you use what Nikolai siad to get a bit of recompense from the dealer?
I could try but how can I prove I've only ridden it 20 odd times? They could say that for all they know I could've been razzing it 6 days a week in axle deep mud. Chalk it up to experience and as you say look harder next time!
I think it's probably time to name and shame the place you got it from...
Agreed.
Did you do any maintenance in the 2 weeks you had it in the Alps? I reckon I could do well over a years worth of UK trail type suspension abuse within 2 weeks of uplift assisted Alps riding. If anything was very slightly unhappy then it would have been mullered after days and days of uplift beating. You can easily do 1000s of meters of rough downhill in a day out there. Should probably think about proper interim servicing when doing so much riding in one hit.
As you say, you should not take anyones word and have a proper look before use. Fingers crossed Nicolai feel for you and do the repairs at the cheapest possible cost. 
Ouch, bad luck mate.
You'd better say where it came from I agree. It's not about naming and shaming but making sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.
That sounds pants, but i'd kind of side with Nicolai as the damage looks due to neglect to maintanance.
I would however be having some serious words with the people you bought the bike from as i woulod seriously doubt it is solely neglect by yourself. It doesn't look like they have done any real maintance on it at all, maybe repaird the odd puncture or 2.
Hopefully Nicolai come back with a favourable price for the repair
On the evidence of this thread and the similarly bad experience of a friend of mine I plan to strip my AM this week and see how it looks.
Fingers crossed mine is not like that 😕
All fair comments above - 2 weeks in the Alps was a lot of riding true, but given I was there with wife and 4 y.o. child it's not like I was riding the Passeportes 14 times in succession! I'm still surprised it disintegrated to that extent which again makes me think it started out in poor nick.
I'm not really willing to name and shame as I'm going to have a chat with them but someone earlier in the thread has already.
hard to argue I admit.i'd kind of side with Nicolai as the damage looks due to neglect to maintanance
fingers and toes all crossed.Hopefully Nicolai come back with a favourable price for the repair
"take it this was an ex-hire bike from Glentress hub?"
I assume thats the post your referring to. I thik you are right to give them the opportunity to comment about the state of the bike, but if it were me personally, I would be asking for my money back, given the reputation that the Hub at Glentress should be looking to maintain.
Hypothesising - If the damaged occrured at the hire centre where you bought it from, I would have thought this was quite worrying that they are sending peopl out on potentially unsafe bikes that look cosmetically ok.
Did he say the hub?
Hub website not mentionning Nicolai bikes on the hire fleet... Ibis, Santa Cruz, Orange, Lapierre, Genesis
Don't think they do them tbh
THhey certainly had Nicolais in late 2007, I remember my mate taking an HT out as he wanted to try a Rolhoff.
I kind of hope it is the Hub; since their homepage has the inspiring title "Ride it like you stole it."
Ooops
Yes, they were definitely selling on Nicolai's as ex-demo.
Their prices aren't exactly cheap either for what are essentially used bikes. My recollection is they justified their prices being a fair bit higher than the 2nd hand market generally because the bikes were ''fully maintained'' etc by a mechanic after each ride. This thread really suggests otherwise, or at least, that some questions need to be asked of them.
Hmmm you bought it ex-hire. TBH I don't think you have much comeback apart from asking for goodwill help.
having been involved with repairs on hire bikes from most trail centres and hire centres after folk have bought them - id never buy one - EVER - regardless of what they say the history is .....
ive yet to see one that justifys the price they command for it - in one case the only thing i had to suggest the chap bought a new bike as it was in a similarly ****ed state to this.
some admittedly are worse than others.
ive also had the misfortune to unpack a bike a customer and friend bought from a professional rider - he paid 2.5k for it on the assumption of it would be in race ready condition and it required a **** load of work - EVERY bearing on the bike was shagged to within an inch of its life and the shock felt like a bag of gravel had been emptied inside - seller didnt want to know. customer took it on the chin and looked on the bright side of the fact his forks and shock would be custom tuned for him
Saying this it depends how it was sold to you. If the bikeshop laid it on thick saying 'bike will be fully stripped/cleaned and prepped for you. As a rule anything that needs replacing will be replaced before it comes to you' then I'd raise that.
However you've had too many rides and your holiday (which could be argued is hard on bikes). The bikeshop could have checked the bike and thought 'its acceptable' but your wear and tear put it over the edge.
So I'd say sorry, lesson learnt- just replace etc.
On the forks I've repaired worse. PeterPoddy's still riding round on them and the repair looks almost hidden/non-existent.
thats a nasty experience you've just had...i hope you've got a chin made of granite to take the wallop Nicolai will no doubt hit you with for the repair as i cant see it being cheap.
as it was a used bike, i cant see that the seller will accept that they sold you a poorly maintained bike as they have got your hard earned now and will try to pin the blame on you and say the the rides you put the bike through caused the damage,
the only thing you could do is get actual confirmation that the damage to the bike has been as a result of long term neglect thus impicating the original owner and then using that to maybe force them to maybe contribute towards the cost of the repair as a gesture of goodwill.
your story is a lesson to us all on the perils of buying a second hand bike.
as for cleaning bikes i dont really know why anyone would want to use washing up liquid to clean their bike as it will kill the bearings and seals. also i cant see it being good for the disc pads either.
i use hope shitshifter and have never had any problems with it. it cleans all the muck off the bike and also works on the disc brakes without damaging the paintwork.
Any word back from Nicolai, your probably looking about the £500 mark I would guess, though I might be pleasently surprised. My nicolai did 4 weeks in the alps, and about 30 days riding in the uk and the bearings didn't show any wear at all. I'm guessing somewhere along the lines the preload became loose and they never bothered to maintain it.
No word from Nicolai for a week until I prodded them. They replied asking did I want a price for a basic get-you-back-on-the-trail repair or the full kahuna. I said give me both and then I can decide how far to go.
That was 10 days ago and no reply - guess they are all at Eurobike. 😕
What did the shop say?
Nicolai(.de) are not famous for their speedy replies to enquiries. However, simon at nicolai.uk has always come up trumps for me when I've needed help.
wow, what a horrible experience!
Good work on keeping your cool throughout (so far) the process.
I almost exclusively buy second hand for frames, shocks, forks (got stung once out of maybe 10forks) and wheels; but obviously new for drive train, brakes, contact points & consumables. Buying ex-demo from bike shops I've considered, and once came as close as getting to the till (then card declined for the monster bank shock amount and then never returned).
But somehow not sure, ex hire or ex fleet especially on anything more hardcore than trail centre type bike I would always go new. On XC marathon & road stuff I wouldn't have any qualm's, but heavier stuff you just know someone is going to have really made sure they have gotten their 20 quids worth of riding out of it, each time 🙁
Forks *could* be repaired with fresh ano + bushings, but again £200+ easy. When honestly you could get away with just riding them into the ground (1-2years use?) then just get something else down the line.
As for repairs, I guess the only sensible option is go full on, get it back to how it should be, take it on the chin that the used bike + repair will likely cost more than RRP.
And [b]most[/b] importantly, once its back, built up and your riding it, [b]FORGET ABOUT THE WHOLE THING[/b], don't waste any more precious riding time worrying about it, as it'll only get you down and put a taint on things.