Settle an arguement!

A colleague I have started working with recently uses the word gay to describe things that are rubbish or don’t work, i.e. “these brakes are totally gay, I can’t even do an endo.”. I picked him up on this and said I thought it was a bit wrong to use gay like that, in fact I used to do the same thing until a gay friend of mine pointed out that it wasn’t really a very nice thing to say.

He said that the word is being used differently and in this context has nothing to do with homosexuality, I disagree, but also think that anyone gay hearing him say it would be entitled to be a bit offended..

Pithy comments and opinions please..

Gay = happy, full of carefree abandon. I don’t see how that can usefully be used to describe things that are rubbish. Or does he mean ghey?

Commission that looked into Chris Moyles using it on Radio1 ruled that Gay=Rubbish.

Commission that looked into Chris Moyles using it on Radio1 ruled that Gay=Rubbish.

Really. That surprises me.. the way I see it the definition of gay being rubbish came after the definition of gay being homosexual and started off as homophobic but then kind of fell into wider use..

Fair enough then..

LONDON, July 9, 2006 – Gaydar Radio, the only gay and lesbian radion station in the United Kingdom, is seeking a meeting with the broadcast regulator Ofcom in the wake of the “Chris Moyles saga”.

Last month, the BBC exonerated Moyes following a complaint that the Radio 1 disc jockey used the word “gay” in it’s school playground meaning as “rubbish” when talking about a mobile phone ringtone.

Last month, the BBC governors ruled that Moyles’ use of the word met the editorial standards of the BBC and did not demonstrate homophobia. However, the governors did accept that the remark could have caused offence

Although im not sure of the prejudicial ethics of a “gay and lesbian” radio station, this was the incident.

(Not getting at gay and lesbians, but its a similar situation to 1xtra, “the home of black music”. Now if we had a “straight” or “the home of white music” station, there’d be a furore. But thats an argument for another time little OT sorry.)

Language’s evolve and just because it may have been used to mean rubbish in the past, it is now well known to mean homesexual therefore I could see how it may be considered offensive if used in the the manner in which the OP described.

There’s plenty of other words that can be used to mean ‘rubbish’ instead.

‘There’s plenty of other words that can be used to mean ‘rubbish’ instead.’

Ditto.

Which i would agree with. Wasn’t siding with them, just presenting some history.

Chris Moyles Radio show is completely gay

Had this conversation with a gay friend of mine too when I started feeling a bit uncomfortable about its use to mean anything rubbish. Eventually we came round to the conclusion that it’s not fair to use to it describe anything as rubbish. i.e. using the OP’s example of “these brakes are just gay” etc etc. However, if I were to try an item of clothing on in a shop and ask “Does this look a bit gay?” and choose not to buy it because I thought it might make me look a camp, then it would be ok. She has a colleague in her studio who’s always saying it e.g. “this computer is just gay, it keeps on crashing”…then there’s a big awkward “oops, sorry, didn’t really mean it like that”

I notice a lot of posters on here use the term to mean rubbish. One can “disguise” it by spelling it “ghey” but it still displays use of homophobic language. I’m slightly uncomfortable with it and I know that a lot of people who use the term wouldn’t use it in front of openly gay people. They might not “mean” it to be offensive but possibly don’t realise the effect it has on gay people who hear it.

Then again, I read the Guardian so that probably explains a lot.

Now if we had a “straight” or “the home of white music” station, there’d be a furore

Can you clarify what you mean here. I think I know what you’re getting at but I don’t want to go jumping to conclusions.

I sometimes buy MBUK if it has a test of something i’m interested in,and somebody who was gay wrote in to complain about the editor Tym using gay to mean rubbish,and dind’t get such a cooperative response. Though he seems to have stopped using gay to mean rubbish all the same.

nukeproof – Member

Language’s evolve and just because it may have been used to mean rubbish in the past, it is now well known to mean homesexual therefore I could see how it may be considered offensive if used in the the manner in which the OP described.

There’s plenty of other words that can be used to mean ‘rubbish’ instead.

Or the word “homosexual” could be used to describe homosexuals and the rest of us could use the word gay as we see fit? Why is it OK for one section of society to commandeer a word?

My granny used to say I looked like a little **** boy when I got dirty; I don’t think that’s acceptable, and I view this in the same way.

Gay as a perjorative term began as a homophobic thing and has leaked out into more general use as a term of abuse/condemnation.

No need for it.

That seems quite reasonable deadly. I don’t use the word to mean rubbish there are plenty of better words for that!

Why is it OK for one section of society to commandeer a word?

If I hear “it’s political correctness gone mad”, I’ll explode! druidh, because it is, that’s why. If one section of society commandeers a word and the rest of society go along with it, then it’s ok…there’s nothing any of us can do to stop it. When I was growing up in the seventies, “gay” started to come in as a new word for homosexuals. As far as I can remember, most everybody had stopped using it as “happy…etc”. So the homosexual community took it as their own. They also took “queer” yet, that word can still be used in its original context.

It’s po . . ..

Nah.

Can you clarify what you mean here. I think I know what you’re getting at but I don’t want to go jumping to conclusions.

What i think i’m getting at, and its more to do with 1xtra, just seeing that when looking for Chris Moyles quote jogged it into my head, is maybe just a little uncomfortable using “Black” as a catch-all term for music, or people or anything in this country. Like how white people can’t use the N word, but rappers can use it all the time. Feel a little excluded maybe,(or not me, dont really identify with the music (tbh i think the majority of the music is awful imo, but there are some sceptions i love, but i can imagine some people will think, “oh black music, cant be for me). It’s kind of like positive discrimination. Or maybe im just thinking out loud and this doesnt make any sense. I can see Stations such as Galaxy and Radio 1 even, play a good amount of RnB and rap, so called “Black Music”, so not sure there needs to be a “Black” Radio station….?? By all means have it exactly the same, but the whole….”the home of black music”? Most music is of black origin if you analyze it. Modern dance derives from a mainly gay, mainly black scene in the 60’s and 70’s america, for example.

IGMC.

I agree Gay is wrong as a derogatory adjective though.

This is mrs deadlydarcy here. I’ve just come to the computer and found a big sticky mess where deadlydarcy was sitting….anyone know anything about this?

heres the deal. when we were in school we used ‘gay’ to mean ‘that is rubbish and homosexual’ cause the biggest insult to a straight adolescent boy is to suggest he is homosexual and feminine. now i dont reckon we were the first generation to use the word in that way but recently some people seem to be suggesting that kids these days have split the two connotations – homosexual and rubbish – apart. i dont think this is true.

to a huge proportion of teenagers gay and rubbish are the same thing. school was easily the most homophobic place i have every been – i think because we had never met a homosexual person and kind of secretly believed that it didnt exist or just existed in tv land! in fact one lad who hadnt come out yet was routinely terrorised for being a poof. the weird thing is i dont think the guys terrorising him actually ever stopped to think if he was really homosexual or not they just thought he was a bit wet and pansyish.

as far as i am concerned ‘gay’ to mean ‘rubbish’ is offensive. i still catch myself saying it though.

porch monkey! – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DxyAGzGxM

I though queer was a mildly derogatory term for homosexuals? Isn’t homo a derogatory term for homosexuals?

This is all a bit silly though isn’t it? Surely people can use some kind of reasoning to determine the meaning of a word based on the context it’s used in?

I mean,there is a difference between saying “lycra is gay” and “I’ll smash your face in you filthy gay” is there not?

Personally I think the use of the word has evolved to the point where it means both. I’ve heard four year olds refer to things as gay, and I am pretty sure hadn’t the slightest idea what the word meant. Perhaps any word which becomes synonomous with homosexuality will eventually take on negative conotations in a predominantly straight society. I’ll not be loosing any sleep over it at any rate.

Using gay to mean happy is also homophobic. It’s just preserving the predudice that homosexuals all have a cheery disposition 🙂

Anyway, it looks like the word has had a vast amount of different meanings over the centuries, so to infer that any use other than one which means homosexual is homophobic is a bit silly imo.
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50093144

Its gay that you even have to ask….

its the evolution of language. Gay people use a word meaning happy / jolly to describe their sexuality when it had a perfectly good meaning already thankyouverymuch. If they don’t like it they’re gay. Oh, errr…

I’ve heard four year olds refer to things as gay, and I am pretty sure hadn’t the slightest idea what the word meant.

words have power. how will that use of the word affect their understanding of homosexuality as they grow older? it wont affect it completely but it will be just a couple of grams more weight on the negative side of the scale.

its the evolution of language

Yup, no one is denying that, but it has evovled in a homophobic way, that’s why I don’t like the usage.

Gay people use a word meaning
Why is it OK for one section of society to commandeer a word?

I don’t think homosexuals have chosen to be called gay or ‘comandeered’ the word. Straight people use the word to refer to homosexuals as well as homosexuals.

I’ve heard four year olds refer to things as gay…

Well, is that not the problem? Now these kids will think being homosexual is rubbish when they find out about the sexual meaning of the word gay?

meikle_partans

Beat me to it..

I personally do not believe it is OK to use it as an offensive term.
so many better words to use, don’t spoil the English language

Camp is such an under used term and so capable of describing someone irrelevant of their sexuality

jobbyheid

I don’t think homosexuals have chosen to be called gay or ‘comandeered’ the word.

I thought they did. I was under the impression that the word was used in reference to homosexuals in homosexual culture before it became widely used in mainstream culture as a term for homosexuals. Maybe I’m mistaken.

I’ve heard four year olds refer to things as gay…

Well, is that not the problem? Now these kids will think being homosexual is rubbish when they find out about the sexual meaning of the word gay?

They might, they might not, depending on how homosexuality is explained to them or where and how they learn about it.

I am still struggling to understand why gays are offended by the evolution of the word gay to mean more than just homosexual when it previously had nothing to do with homosexuality, yet they are perfectly happy with the application of the word queer, which at least in my understanding means strange, ill or suspicious.

Anyway, I think their time and energies would be better spent dealing with the millions of religious folk who see them as abominations in the eyes of god.

My gay friend doesn’t mind too much and I say it all the time in front of him, he just rolls his eyes and we are still friends.

As someone with a bit of experience in this area – i.e. being gay myself:

Yes words change. In the gay ‘world’ (for want of a better phrase) terms like poof, queer, gay etc. all mean slightly different things. Queer is usually someone quite political (e.g. Tatchell), poof is more of a knockabout term meaning quite camp and ‘gay’ is a generic noun for people of my sexuality.

Now to start getting peoples hackles up. My partner (unfortunately now redundant) used to work in an office where *every*day* X would be ‘gay’, Y would be ‘gay’, Z would be ‘gay’. CONSTANTLY. He was scared *SH!TLESS* to come out as he thought he would lose his job. Yes I know it is now illegal but we know if a company wants you out, they’ll kick you out somehow. This is right for stupid people is it? “We can use the 19th century version of this if we like hahaha, it doesn’t matter.’ Grow up, you’re acting like Alf Garnett.

Secondly if you want to know if a word is offensive to anyone, choose another word in its place. Anything, for example, christian, muslim, black, indian, londoner, welsh, scots, irish, whatever. If you think that someone might get pissed off you comparing them to being rubbish all the while and would therefore consider you to have something against them perhaps they have a point.

But then again, people who say things like this wouldn’t like it to be used against them, would they?

Yes it is minor, yes Chris Moyles acted soft (but then again he is a complete idiot and totally unfunny) and I can’t be asked about that slip-up but if someone says “Hold on a sec, please don’t do that, it ain’t nice” and all someone can do is continue and use any old jaded arguments about what words used to mean then you’re not really a thoughtful decent person then, aren’t you?

And yes, if people start on the forums shouting that something is ‘so gay’ meaning rubbish, I’ll be around to challenge. I’m not rubbish. I’m <stereotypical> fabulous </stereotypical> 😀

AdamW

I will back you up in that fight simply on principal

Fairly comprehensive answer there from Adam, and I’d say using “gay” in place of “rubbish” is a particularly childish thing to do, though I do think there are a few areas you could “get away with” it being applicable – depending on how camp the item makes you look 🙂

This thread is gay.
In the rubbish sense of the word that is 🙂

No, WTF, that would be me.

And this thread (or parts of it) are gay as in fabulous!

Of course using the word in that manner is offensive.

its the same when I go to buy cycling clothing, I have to buy very, very, very dark blue ones as the lad behind the counter is “coloured” and I don’t want to risk offending him. I only eat Ketchup on my bacon rolls as there might be a member of staff upset if I order the other option and I have not had a takeaway for three years as I don’t want to reinforce the fact that Chinese people have limited career options, and at work I only use powerpoint presentations as the whole blackboard/whiteboard conundrum leaves me confused.

as the lad behind the counter is “coloured” and I don’t want to risk offending him

Have they invented time travel at last? So, how do you feel that the year 2009 compares with the Seventies, Labby?

Nice sideburns, btw…

You tried, you FAILed….

Never mind, eh?

[curveball]So what about us all using the word Jey, which is derived from the homophobic version of the word gay as meaning rubbish ?[/curveball]

Doesn’t it follow that we should we stop using that ?

Have I just killed the word Jey ? 😯

I don’t like the word “Gay”, I’ve never liked it, it just sounds, well, Gay.

bloody happy words, there’s another!

give me rubbish heterosexual misery any day!

that said language is constantly evolving, the appropriation of the word “Gay” by the homosexual community was instrumental in the shifting of universal public acceptance.

That said, the word now appears to have been claimed by another group, the teenager, I think it may have been swapped for the word “fierce”?

sorry but thats just the way linguistics rolls 😀

My eldest son is gay, & he’s crap at most things (apart from spending money on clothes & arty farty stuff)
Gay thread.