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I've recently started getting the feeling we've reached the high tide mark for mtb'ing.Certainly the retail bike industry has been very quiet of late (although this could be because of mid summer product launches and crappy weather) and competitor numbers are definately down at the traditional major events.After the explosion in popularity a few years ago are people dropping out and not being replaced by newbies put off by the scary prices?Will the changes to bike to the work scheme put people off getting their first 'proper' bike?
There is a lot of money floating about for new trails but it is mainly aimed at 'leisure' cycling,which is definately booming but the more dedicated end seems, to me at least, to be on the slide.
Discuss (or more likely dismiss out of hand with little thought) 😐
more people riding DH than ever.
I don't see MTB as being driven by retail. Yes, you need to buy a bike and replace worn parts, but for me MTB retail occupies perhaps 5 hours a year. And I like the trails which haven't had any money spent on them for centuries...
a lot of my mtb riding boys seem to be getting lycra'd up at the moment...
The bike frames have improved massively, weight wise. I don't think we'll see the same rate of progress there.
I thought Mountain Mayhem increased the number of entries available this year.
HONC filled up within a couple of days.
I know more people than ever before that ride bikes now, for some its a bit of an obsession, for others they save a few hundred quid, get a hardtail and have just as much fun learning to ride as they would on something that cost £3000, I think its still getting bigger and better.
Its just been a bad year weather wise.
Read something the other day which said something along the lines of middle class, middle aged men are now buying high spec bikes instead of sportscars due to the recession.
Whether or not they will find their way onto a trail is a different matter of course.
A lot of mtb 'regulars' are turning to the road,just look at the posts on here.Eventually people get bored of riding the same centres and the type of person attracted to these places are'nt that bothered about exploring natural stuff and so lose interest and turn to road riding.
The bike frames have improved massively, weight wise
isn't the frame itself a rather minor part of the all-up weight of the bike ?
Eventually people get bored of riding the same centres
definitely - but of course there are far better places to ride 🙂
Not a trail centre & not near one:
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near a trail centre, but better:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2010/7aug/thumb/1232x.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2010/7aug/thumb/1232x.jp g"/> [/img] click pic for bigger[/url]
All the information I have seen suggests that cycling as a whole is still growing. However this may not be growth in what you would call proper mountain biking.
Rorschach - A lot of mtb 'regulars' are turning to the road,just look at the posts on here.Eventually people get bored of riding the same centres and the type of person attracted to these places are'nt that bothered about exploring natural stuff and so lose interest and turn to road riding.
ah I wondered when the "full suss / singlespeed / trail centres / this weeks hated trend" would be blamed for the downfall of everything
Well 'they' should have left 'our' sport alone should'nt they? 😉 Personnaly as a full suspension riding single speeded trail centre rider I don't see it as a bad thing!
Everything is cyclical (they call them fads when its for kids) and this is the 2nd time round for mtbs.Windsurfing went through the same thing in the 90's becoming hugely popular and then pricing itself out of the market with evermore specialist and expensive kit.
Its not going to die tomorrow but has it peaked.....
The weather this year has been great for biking. Ive had dry trails just about every weekend for months. Some of us havent washed our bikes for months.
Some of us have never washed our bike.......but thats got nothing to do with the weather.
I've gone more lycratastic due to not having the time to get to anywhere hilly 🙁
There seem to be a much bigger population of kids on BMX at the moment than any time in the last 20 years. It was big when i was a kid but died out...now there seems to be reasonable little BMX parks springing up around the place and the kids are flocking...some of the are bloody good as well. These kids will possibly move into MTb when they can afford to get to the trails without mum and dads assistance..just so long as we are still allowed to ride the non trail centre areas such as local woods as they are getting very heavily used these days.
Rorschach - Member
A lot of mtb 'regulars' are turning to the road,just look at the posts on here.Eventually people get bored of riding the same centres and the type of person attracted to these places are'nt that bothered about exploring natural stuff and so lose interest and turn to road riding
Or they might actually enjoy riding, so buy another bike for a different experience?!
I would say its totally the opposite.
As far as i can see more people getting into MTB - and cycling - than ever before. Loads of people at this weekend's Brighton Big Dog were newbies and at the "club" i ride with they are getting loads of enquiries from people who want to try out MTB riding.
I would say if there is a drop in attendance at events its simply because people don't have the cash at the moment. With regards to retail i think people are researching more than ever for the best price or just making do with what they have. Doesn't mean they ride any less.
I've gone more lycratastic due to not having the time to get to anywhere hilly
I also find this to be true but have adopted street and bike park riding for kicks rather than a lycra approach.. 😀
Prices for bike parts,MTB & road are ridiculously expensive and seem to be getting more expensive year on year with manufacturers seemingly charging prices that to me don't seem in line with what they're offering.
With road there is a lot less wear compared to MTB so less maintenance, lower costs as a result etc, you see a lot more people going to road than the other way around as there is no transporting of a road bike required to a trail centre for one,road is more simplistic,as soon as you're out of the door that's it, you're riding, the only limitation to destination being your own fitness or lack of it.There's usually less cleaning to do after a ride aswell.
With road there is a lot less wear compared to MTB so less maintenance, lower costs as a result etc
I fail to see the comparison. Nothing would persuade me to change to road riding! Apart from both using things with 2 wheels I see nothing in common...
one thing that doesnt help is the whole "bike shaped object" thing.... in 2 ways i think....
1) its rubbish wasting the money on one when you're wanting to buy a bike "to get fit and out the house more" not realising its going to be horrible to ride and more trouble than its worth...
2) the fact that you need to spend 300+ to get something which isnt going to be horrible to ride... is enough to put most people off biking. then when you come on the itnernet to research the best value bike (cos you want to get fit and out the house more) you get overwhelmed by people saying you need to spend much more than 300 and ripping into any bike or componants that arent as good as the bike they've got and have invested hundreds into.
as a "newbie" to biking its incredibly daunting, makes you feel like you have to spend hundreds and hundreds, make you feel like nothing you buy for less than 700-800 will be good enough and you'll be mocked by anyone else on a bike.
most people who arent into biking know very little other than what was available when they last cycled as a kid. lightwieght frames, suspension, hardtails vs full suss, the hugely varying quality of companants all makes it pretty scary and you're constantly reminded that you cant trust halfords or your LBS for advice as according to the internet they're all crap.
i think the internet and forums, forgetting that some people just want to get on a bike in their normal clothes and ride for a bit away from the TV... (these people will usually end up then investing in better stuff etc and perhaps getting into a mroe specific style of riding)... is a BIG factor in scaring people off getting into biking.
this is jsut my opinion and obviously there are many many more factors to consider.... jsut thought i'd put it out there next time someone asks "what bike should i buy for 200pounds" and everyone bundles in telling them they're an idiot for even considering buying a bike for less than a grand (obvious exxageration, but intended to hammer the point home).
The retail bike industry has been very quiet?!!!.....err no it hasn't, well not for us it hasn't. My employer has seen their biggest growth to date during the last 18 months! Alot of those sales can attributed to cycle schemes but we sell a fair few mountain bikes that way too.
MTB has and always will be a small part of the cycle industry IMO.
In my defence this is only based on me working at a various bike shops and a trail centre for the last 6 years.
Cyclescheme is a large proportion of most bikeshops turnover and road bike sales are on the rise but thats not what I was talking about.
erm, don't know if you've noticed but there's recession going on at the moment 🙄
sales are down of everything, not just bikes and events.
What kind of shops? Size? Location?
EDIT: In the time i've been frequenting trail centres i've seen them getting busier and busier. Cwmcarn, Brechfa and Afan/Glyncorryg.
SoB - a very cool pic there (the cave one)!
If I didn't have loads of routes on my doorstep I'd soon get bored TBH - driving to a trail centre is not my idea of what MTBing is about.
The future is Cyclocross!
Deep-river.Truth!Its also the past......
A lot of mtb 'regulars' are turning to the road,just look at the posts on here.Eventually people get bored of riding the same centres and the type of person attracted to these places are'nt that bothered about exploring natural stuff and so lose interest and turn to road riding.
I spent the last two years almost exclusively exploring the best natural stuff Scotland has to offer, but recently have gotten sick of how 'needy' the mountainbikes are compared to the road bike. It seems there's no solution to the constant, time consuming, expensive fettling required to keep the mtbs smooth and quiet.
sorry, i'm too slow, ignore me.
It's cyclical, like a lot of things, and it may just be at a low point currently.
I started riding in 1994, and joined a local club pretty quickly. It had a healthy membership base, but over the next couple of years people moved away, changed jobs, got married, and at it's lowest there were 4 of us riding most weekends, still under the "title" of a club but more as mates, although we were determined to keep the club running if only in name.
Numbers started to pick up again around the end of last century, when my work & family life meant I left the club, and it is now back to a very healthy membership. Give it a few years though & it'll probably decline again, and either die or pick up again.
Locally though I'm seeing more people riding road bikes as a basic form of transport (not roadies as such, just man on road bike cycling to work etc) rather than cheaper MTBs, so possibly less people are exposing themselves to MTB riding in the first place?
[EDIT] SFB, is that Cathedral Quarry in your first picture?
[i]"MTB has and always will be a small part of the cycle industry IMO."[/i]
Interesting comment from someone in the trade.
I would have assumed most new bike sales were mountain bikes, as that's what I see most of on my commute and when out at weekends.
Is that not what you're finding in your shop ?
Or are you only counting "serious" cyclists, not those looking for a cheap commute bike ?
perception is a strange thing. personally i'm having more fun biking now than i can remember, with a far better mix of natural and man made trails. i don't work in the industry so saleswise i'm not sure, but i think there are more people on bikes now than before. interested to know if you would have the same view on women's mountain biking, because that would seem to be in a growth period from observation, which sounds like a letch alert, but compared to say 5 years ago...
Value for money was very good a few years ago, but the recent price rises have been big on a lot of stuff. Interesting comparison with windsurfing. I wonder where we'll be in 3 years time.
Also cycling as a whole has done well on the back of 'green' thinking. When people get bored of powering themselves I think that will wane.
"Its just been a bad year weather wise."
Eh? best summer trail conditions in 3 years. Could not care less about "high watermarks". MTB will always be a grass-roots led sport and outdoors activity which is a good thing IMO.
If I only rode trail centres I'd get bored too.
Afan: ~100km of marked trails
Mendips: ~400km of "natural" trails (must try and work this out more accurately)
One of the problems with MTBs is technically they're not fit for the purpose they're intended for,ie riding in muddy conditions.
Chains weren't meant to be de-railled across a cassette,throw mud and dirt into the equation and it's a recipe for disaster or quicker wear rates, shocks etc weren't designed for the conditions either, even the best seals eventually give up resulting in knackered shocks etc and high maintenance costs, no one needs me to start mentioning the pivots on suspension systems either.
Never been a better choice of places to ride though!
Perhaps people's maintainence standards have increased too.
Does the fact that less people are buying bikes and entering less (or being more selective with) events mean that people are riding less though?
Perhaps everyone is just hanging on to/getting a bit more wear out of their current kit. Around South Wales there doesn't seem to have been a noticable drop in the number of vistors to the trail centres or the locals that are about on the natural cheeky stuff.
MidlandTrailquestsGraham: I can tell you that a shop fast approaching a £2 million turnover hasn't achieved that by just selling MTB's! The likes of Giant, Specialized and Trek are not the worlds biggest bike brands from selling mostly MTB's either.
I can tell you that a shop fast approaching a £2 million turnover hasn't achieved that by just selling MTB's!
selling crack?
[EDIT] SFB, is that Cathedral Quarry in your first picture?
of course 🙂
One of the problems with MTBs is technically they're not fit for the purpose they're intended for,ie riding in muddy conditions.
Doesn't stop us lot riding them all over the hills in all weathers, does it? It may not be perfect but it's the most fit for purpose thing we have. And works well too really. Just have to keep an eye on maintenance, like you used to have to do with cars.
Re internet forums - 99% of bikers never come near a forum, least of all STW, so I really don't think it's a factor.
You have to remember though that MTBing has diversified massively in 20 years. It used to be that every MTBer had an XC bike and rode their local bridleways in the hills/woods. Now that is possibly in decline, but the number of youngesters riding trail/dh/freeride/whatever is huge. Look on youtube, look at the number of cheeky trails, jumps, unofficial DH routes and scary lines down big obstacles that are appearing.
If you've only been mtbing for 5 years or so you won't remember a time when all the little bikey bits of singletrack simply did not exist. The concept of bikers 'developing' a bit of woodland was unheard of. Now almost every bit of accessible woods has little trails snaking all over it.
Pastcaring: That was going to be our next promotion actually 😆
If you've only been mtbing for 5 years or so you won't remember a time when all the little bikey bits of singletrack simply did not exist. The concept of bikers 'developing' a bit of woodland was unheard of. Now almost every bit of accessible woods has little trails snaking all over it.
def agreed on that part! been taking a mate out riding who hasnt stepped on his bike in 8 years but we're heading out to the exact same parts he rode 8 years ago.. its like watching a kid at christmas as he's constantly excited by all the new bits of singletrack etc.
however on the internet part... if you type in a bike name and "review" then chances are in the top few results one of the biking forums will be there and it'll link to a thread of people ripping into someones choice of new bike. most people i know use a simple google search to check something before buying it, especially if its an item that wouldnt normally end up in the trolly on a weekly shop.
I guess I'm the case in point. Been mtb for 5yrs or so here and abroad, got a road bike through C2W and caught the bug, have hardly been on a mtb all summer.
Am sure I will go back to it (as soon as this Sunday) but road riding does have its own appeal. Living in London its great to be able to just head out the door and ride out into the cuds rather than load the mtb onto the car. Also, I've got a whole lot fitter, there's nothing like sitting on a road bike for 4-5hrs to burn the calories......and when you do get back on a mtb its much more fun than before when you were huffing and puffing to keep up with the big boys.
I'm pretty sure my full-sus is going to be retired as a result. No fun trying to manhandle a Blur around in the dirt when youve spent the last few months on a 17lb carbon racer......only need for a nice hardtail methinks.
The concept of bikers 'developing' a bit of woodland was unheard of. Now almost every bit of accessible woods has little trails snaking all over it.
Totally agree, and it's get better every year.
Re forums - if I google for bike advice, I invariably end up on a singletrack thread
however on the internet part... if you type in a bike name and "review" then chances are in the top few results one of the biking forums will be there and it'll link to a thread of people ripping into someones choice of new bike
True enough.. although this happens for everything these days. Typing in <something> review always returns tons of dross 🙁
It seems you need to spend a fortune to buy a new MTB which is ok according to the press. Silly? Possibly, but where would you be looking for info as a newbie? MBUK, MBR, What Bike etc. Entry level bikes around £1500 are criticised for being crap disregarding the simple fact most of us never outgrow an old Trek 920 or a Specialized Hardrock. We change them because we want to in most cases.
Several years ago you could easily find a bike for £300 that came from a major brand and was good, nowadays good means expensive. The bike companies are at fault IMO.
Prices have rocketed in a recession - not handy.
A £1200 bike from 2007 is now £1500++
It seems you need to spend a fortune to buy a new MTB which is ok according to the press
Entry level spend has been £300-£400 for as long as I can remember. ie 20 years.
Mrs Grips' new hybrid was £400 with a bit of haggling, and it's astonishingly good VFM.
"The concept of bikers 'developing' a bit of woodland was unheard of. Now almost every bit of accessible woods has little trails snaking all over it."
Although it probably has got a lot more common most of the places I used to ride 10-15 years ago seemed to have been seen to by the local bikers at the time, we used to spend all weekend in the woods with our spades, and you could see all the biking trails where a lot of other people had been. I don't think much changes really, kids always go out on their bikes and some keep up the habit and others fall out of it. Some get back into it when they are older, (like many people on this forum). It's never been a cheap hobby though. £400 always bought you a decent entry level bike and it costs about the same now, more or less. I've just realised this post doesn't really have a point.
Aaah, this is taking me back, I might dust off the old rigid Rockhopper...
+1 with molgrips. the entry level pricepoint has always been around the 400 quid mark, most magazine reviews ive ever read of these use phrases like "gives more expensive machines a run for their money" and are generally very positive. Most come with disc brakes and front suspension (albeit maybe cable discs and basic tech forks) as the manufacturers think customers demand it.
Pastimes, and niches within pastimes are cyclical. XC racing waned years ago, endurance events have taken off and continued to grow since the first red bull 24hr races. the bristol bike fest was a good mix of newbies and enthusiasts, and it was interesting to see that the STW favourite of a steel long travel hardtail was probably the most common style of bike. It used to be everyone at an enduro event seemed to ride a marin full susser.
I heard the cycle industry was expanding worldwide by 20% a year, and the CTW scheme combined with the higher profile of cycling (hoy, pendleton, wiggins, cavendish) has helped to popularise it in the UK.
buzz-lightyear - Member
"Its just been a bad year weather wise."Eh? best summer trail conditions in 3 years. Could not care less about "high watermarks". MTB will always be a grass-roots led sport and outdoors activity which is a good thing IMO.
If I only rode trail centres I'd get bored too.
[b]Afan: ~100km of marked trails
Mendips: ~400km of "natural" trails (must try and work this out more accurately) [/b]
Do you want to work out how many 100s of km of natural trails are in Afan forest as well? I think it might be quite a lot.
As far as the weather is concerned, it's been a normal wet summer down here in South Wales - not sunny enough to be described as a good summer, but not wet enough to be a washout. The trails are definitely muddy though.
It's gonna be ****ed with the new cyclescheme recommendations.
Theres a lot of bike shop owners doing the 2p/5p thing over c2w.....(size of coin purse).
lbs manager was just telling me the other day that the industry stats are showing a slow down in sales of high end bikes but low to mid are still high.
Not surprised really. Will not be buying another high end bike myself, the Pig will see me through to my retirement 😆
As for racing/events I prefer to spend what would be entry money etc on a day out on the hills with the map 😆