Been sent this –

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4463111748_948da5dc0f_b.jpg

I've heard on here about these unenforceable tickets where they threaten you with everything under the sun (Baliff, court etc) but can't actually do anything about it, and if you just ignore them, they eventually give up

Is this one of them?

Yup

don't even acknowledge it

There may be some useful advice here

£90 jesus how about an little £2 for the hour extra he stayed. tell them to f off

Cheers Barry. I've had a good read of that thankyou.

So, do I send the standard letter as you linked to in that thread, or just blank them?

blANK THEM

Totally ignore them
It's just a speculative invoice for services they claim you've had

Do not reply

Do not open any future mail they send you

They will get increasingly aggressive and then drop it – but only if you read their letter 🙂

Plenty of help on Google

LOL @ the website they link to for some credability
What a meaningless pile of poop

Ive just signed up for their forum 🙂

I really hate these type of shysters

I would consider making a complaint to the Information Commissioner about the DVLA selling on your data too. Dodgy if you ask me and way outwith the spirit of the DPA. If we all complained they might stop doing it.

I just got one of those from homebase. 75 quid. I was planning to ring them and kindly tell them to f-off. I think I'll just ignore it though…

You spent two and a half hours in Lidls? 😮

I may be missing something here, but aren't rear number plates yellow? In that second picture, it's clearly white, like the front.

?

Two and a half hours to pick some dodgy cycle shoes and shorts? You're a worse shopper than my wife.

Wife got one last year for 2hrs 10 mins in Aldi (I know). I ignored the letter similar to yours and subsequent letter from so called debt collection agency (with same address). Not received anything since October.
So just ignore it.

Peter. I have actually had a parking company done for this. they are in breach of over 5 acts. Now all the can claim is consequnetial loss of th ecost of parking so £3 their claim would never stand up. But the big issue is HOW did they get your address, through the DVLA, now they are registered for the prevention of crime, parking on private property is a cival matter so they have breached their use of information! if they chase you they are further breaking acts, I can send you the full list. Oh any they have a po box address, thats illegal they mush show their full address. As I say I can send you a good 5 acts they are breaking, they cannot charge you anyting other than the cost of the original parking. Its a joke and companys make millions out of this scam. The ones who tried it on me got a nice hefty fine for their efforts. Shove it the bin. If they ever sent a debt collector you can have them done for harrasment, they cannot get a bailiff only a court can do that!!

These things are governed by standard contract law. Assuming they followed the rules on placing the signage in the correct places around the restricted parking area then the person who parked the car has legally entered into a contract with the parking company and in fact IS liable for the charge. By parking there you have by default agreed to their terms.

However, the important distinction is that the contract exists between the person who parked the car, which is not always the registered keeper of the car. If they have proof of the person who parked the car, for example photographic evidence of you sat behind the wheel in the parking place, then you are on dodgy ground by ignoring it. However, if they don't have any proof of who actually parked th ecar then there is nothing they can do apart from send you one scary sounding letter after another.

If you get a phone call from them or anyone representing them then make sure you talk in the third person regarding the parking. eg.. 'The car was parked…' or 'The person who parked the car was not aware of the restrictions.' NEVER give yourself away by saying 'I parked the car' or 'I had no idea it was a restricted parking zone'. If you do that you've just given them the evidence they need to prove it was you as you effectively just confessed.

I had one of these last year and I just kept returning their letters with a note to take up the non-payment of their invoice with the person who parked the vehicle.

And remember…. Unlike criminal law regarding traffic offences, you are not obliged under civil law (which covers contract law and these invoices) to give the identity of the person who did park the car, no matter how threatening they become.

Best thing is to just ignore it and all the subsequent scary letters.. I got one that said their bailiffs would be calling to gain legal entry to my premises to assess my ability to pay the fine. Quite scary, unless you know it's total bluff and utter bollocks.

No matter what they say or call it, it's an invoice from a private company and it is NOT a fine. As an invoice you are perfectly entitled to choose not to pay it. they can try and take you to small claims court but unless they can prove you parked the car they have no case at all.

I would consider making a complaint to the Information Commissioner about the DVLA selling on your data too. Dodgy if you ask me and way outwith the spirit of the DPA. If we all complained they might stop doing it.

As a registered company you can purchase the registered owner data on any vehicle for £2.50. they aren't breaching any data protection laws by contacting the registered owner directly, If they made that information public they would be.

As to wether or not that whole arrangement is morally right is another matter, but they aren't breaking any laws or rules.

These companies are scum.

Agree with the other posts. These companies are scum. They rely on most people just paying up. Don't do it.

Hold your nerve, ignore all of their demands and they'll give up. It might last a few months, and their letters might sound initially threatening, but hold your nerve. You can make contact with them, but it won't change their course of action.

The only reason to contact them is that if they instruct a debt collection agency, you can legitimately claim that the charge is in dispute. A debt collection agency cannot pursue a claim that is in dispute, and that is where the trail will run dry. If you do, post everything recorded delivery. They hate the certainty with which you can prove that they received your letter.

It can be disconcerting since you will never get anything official saying that the charge has been dropped, but eventually the lack of them pursuing it further will be enough.

Legally, if they didn't tell you the penalty for parking there (which even if they did doesn't matter), all that they can claim from you is any direct cost associated with the inconvenience you might have caused to them in issuing the ticket, or the direct costs that they incurred because your car was in their car park. Both of these sums will be insignificant that it just won't be worth their effort pursuing you through the courts.

Good luck. Power to the people!

Why not just cover your rear plate with a piece of card that says 'F*** you' when you leave? Once on the public road, stop and remove it.

daveatextremistsdotcouk – Member

Why not just cover your rear plate with a piece of card that says 'F*** you' when you leave? Once on the public road, stop and remove it.
Typical islanders always causing conflict! lol!

That's not actually a bad idea, you know. Is it an offence to cover your rear numberplate in a private car park? Would certainly scupper these money-grabbing shysters.

Regulations are fair enough, to prevent people from using a car park unreasonably, but £90 is out of order. It's about time there was legislation to restrict the amount these companies are allowed to charge.

You shop at Lidl….

😉

Hmmmm, welcome to Britain. It's rubbish.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

I got one, and my biggest mistake was replying to them, they wouldn't leave me alone then. Eventually got the message when my solicitor gave them a ring.

All that non-addressed junk mail you lot get, put it in an envelope, address it to their PO box (no stamp) and send it on.
That'll keep their claims officers busy – sorting through what's genuine or not. And should give them a headache in paying for the letters to eh?

Would this work?

Though I realise this has really nothing to do with the letters you're about to ignore…

This may be an unpopular thing to say but…

1) the legal principle is sound: there was a contract between the driver and the landowner when the driver parked there which included liquidated damages. The driver breached the contract. The driver is are liable to pay the damages.

1a) the internet forum advice you get that says "this is all totally illegal, it's a scam, it's a fraud etc" is wrong.

1b) although I understand that in E&W law the amount of the liquidated damages has to be "reasonable" (this was the bank charges issue, wasn't it?)

2) the "how did the DVLA get my address" is a total non-starter of a complaint. you're allowed to access DVLA info to prepare or launch litigation, legal claim etc.

3) the real question is how far they can be bothered to chase this as a contractual dispute so that you can compare the likely risk (of being successfully sued and hit for higher costs) against the likely reward (not paying the forty five quid). Unfortunately, no-one except the parking companies knows if and how often they actually bother suing anyone for this.

They rarely ever get to court as the only way they can successfully win a case is if they can prove you parked the car. That requires evidence that they very rarely get. No proof that it was you who parked the car (registered owner is not proof) no case. Simples.

Offer to pay for parking (to reimburse any loss) to the land owner / car park operator based upon local car park charges of £whatever they actually are / hour and leave it at that.
They can only seek what they are out of pocket by, ie the money you ought to have paid for staying over their time allowance.
Don't ignore.

1) the legal principle is sound: there was a contract between the driver and the landowner when the driver parked there which included liquidated damages. The driver breached the contract. The driver is are liable to pay the damages.

But it's still speculative – they don't know who the driver was

IGNORE.
DO NOT …reply OR engage in any dialogue.
They will send you approx 10 letters, each with more legal fees on.
When they realise that you are not replying they cut their losses and give up.

If you have dialogue with them then they will persist for much longer as they know you are concerned and are more likely to pay.

Ignore

I've got a shoebox full of private parking tickets totalling about £18k.

Never paid a penny and never responded to any of them.

As above, do not acknowledge or question. The only time I'd pay up is if it was a council enforcing etc.

I love all the indignation. It is of course every persons right to drive onto someone else's property and park there. So were you shopping there for all that time or did you just abuse the free parking? I hope you won't object if I park across your driveway sometime if that just happens to be convenient for me and saves me a bit of money. Of course I won't do it if your car is on the driveway. And if you object you can always take civil action against me. I have to warn you though that I shall ignore your letters and threats. You'll get bored soon enough and give up and I'll drive off into the sunset with my righteous indignation intact. 🙂

So in short yes I think you can ignore it.

Thanks for the replies everyone, especially Mark, that makes a lot of sense even though the beginning of your reply didn't sound good! 😉

They rarely ever get to court as the only way they can successfully win a case is if they can prove you parked the car. That requires evidence that they very rarely get. No proof that it was you who parked the car (registered owner is not proof) no case. Simples.

The registered owner, who's name and address I blanked out, didn't park the car anyway. I won't say who it was…. 😀

Yup had this too
Ignore (even when you get the debt collector letter)

as someone above said in civil law they can only claim for consequential loss. £90 is more than the consequential loss would amount to. infact i'm pretty sure that if you could demonstrate there are always empty spaces in their car park you could argue, in court, successfully that their consequential losses are nil.

avdave2 my girlfriends Dad took long in Tesco's. He received a big 'fine' and paid it. His transgression? He parked in a disabled bay, displayed his badge …went shopping in Tesco's then decided to have a cup of tea in their cafe.

Would they listen? Would they ****.

Re: the photo above. I received one of those from a Council in London for an illegal U-turn outside BBC/White City- you could actually see the car on the edge of its springs/a rear wheel lifting on the two photos as I spun the wheel at speed 😆

They do sometimes go to court

More help here

Mark – Resident Grumpy
These things are governed by standard contract law. Assuming they followed the rules on placing the signage in the correct places around the restricted parking area then the person who parked the car has legally entered into a contract with the parking company and in fact IS liable for the charge.

Not quite correct, a contract needs to be balanced and agreed by both parties, you cannot agree to a contract when a. you have to be already on their land to read said contract, even then you have not agreed to it, as it is unbalanced! just a few of my points on where they fail

1) Sections 82 to 84 of the Companies Act 2006, if a PCN or any correspondence from a Private Parking company does not have their registered address and Co Number they are in Breech, most use a PO Box so they are illegal.

2) Data Protection Act, most Private parking companies are registered to process information for the prevention of Crime, parking is a Civil matter so they are breaking the DPA by processing your information.(I mean to process an invoice / bill) getting your address is not illegal sending an invoice is as they are not registered to use information in this way!

3) Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 & Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083. Basically as you have not had pre-sight of their T&C’s or had any influence their terms are biast and unfair, you are already in the car park before you can read them. Their T&Cs wont hold any substance.

4) The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 si 2007 No 3482. A PCn must include details to appeal to an adjudicator, most will only give their own address, they are not adjudicators and as such they do not comply with the regulations

5) section 40 of the Administration of Justice act, by contacting you or sending a debt collector they are in breech for harassment, if the PCn states charges will apply or they can legally charge you they are also in breech. Also if a PCN stages any legal right, or portrays to be from an authority they are illegal.

6) If a parking fee is £4 and you don’t pay it, they can only claim consequential losses of £4… most companies say you owe £50-150…………… this is utter rubbish. They can only claim the lost earning.

7) If you stay in a car park for too long, i.e. service station, take a motorway (you have seen the signs, take a break don’t drive tired) well if your knackered and fall asleep for too long and overstay their free time, you cannot be of sound mind and body to held liable to any contract because you were too tired! + they would have to give you the t&c’s on the motorway before you exit the motorway so you have pre-sight.

8) They have to prove you were the driver, the owner / keeper of the vehicle cannot be liable, this is their burden and for them to prove

9) They have to prove you were the driver and did park for the entire duration, if its 2 hours free and they say you stopped for 3 hours, they need to prove your car did not move then come back, i.e park for 1 hours come back after and hour and park again!

10) They must prove that you did park the vehicle, most CCTV footage is rubbish and wont identify any driver, however Most Parking Companies delete CCTV and Photos after 21 days.

My last bit of advice, Your own Terms & Conditions!! They are as legal as theirs!

Send them your own terms & conditions for contact, basically say to them any correspondence from them will be chargeable at £150 each letter or email for admin costs, any visits to your house charged at £200 per visit, at the end of the day it is your private address so your terms are as valid as theirs and we all know that means not at all in a court of law!

If you dont want to have fun, just ignore them. Im my case against CP Plus who work for moto Services I had them done by the information commissioner and by companies house, they work illegally and work on fear, they also work on the basis of never going to court and just hope 1 in 10 pay up the daft fee. this site is great, it has lawyers on there who are trying to get these companies regulated and stop them from ripping the majority of innocent motorists off

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

have fun!

Talkemada – Member
That's not actually a bad idea, you know. Is it an offence to cover your rear numberplate in a private car park? Would certainly scupper these money-grabbing shysters.

Regulations are fair enough, to prevent people from using a car park unreasonably, but £90 is out of order. It's about time there was legislation to restrict the amount these companies are allowed to charge.

If the car park has markings, such as bays or give ways, then even if it is private land road laws still apply, so you need insurance, MOT, driving licence, number plates etc. Got told this a few years ago when my wifes car was hit in a car park, and the other guy drove off (sadly whilst wifeys car was unattended). Cops told us if we could get other vehicle details then the other guy had failed to stop, and they'd take action. Sadly "all" the CCTV cameras in that particular car park happened to be pointing in the other direction.