After my run in last week with the ground been thinking about one of THESE, so waste of space or sound investment?

My opinion is you should’ve bought one last wednesday 😉

A mate of mine has one and swears by it, he’s managed a couple of decent faceplants and it did the job. Seen a couple of people make use of the face protection too and it seemed effective.

I don’t like them though, the jawbone sticks out an awful long way which seems like it’ll attract impacts and increase twisting etc. So I decided against it myself. I’ve nothing against the idea but the execution doesn’t seem right.

Someone’ll post that pic of the guy with the broken Parachute and cut face in a minute I reckon… But they won’t speculate what the guy’s face might have looked like without the helmet 😉

geordiemick00 – Member

My opinion is you should’ve bought one last wednesday

**** off

I got one as I wanted a lid for road, XC and trail centre riding. Peak off for road use, peak on for XC and full face for trail centres. It meets the requirements fine, but isnt that comfy in full face mode. Taking lid off and putting on with the jaw guard is a bit of a pain around the ears, but I can live with that.

Sound investment IMO, although not tested its toughness, gladly 🙂

I’ve rubbed my face along the ground a couple of times with mine. I’m happy with it.

I’ve just bought one. Initial worries about it being too warm were soon allayed, it is better ventilated than my Xen. It is not noticeably heavier either, nor does the chinguard interfere with my field of view. The chinguard is quite pointy- perhaps to help deflect your head sideways onto your shoulder for support?

To date I have a couple of niggles though.

I need to take my glasses off to put the helmet on, then put my glasses back on.
I feel silly in it on some rides- so I use the Xen on those ones where I don’t wan’t to feel too gnarrly.
I forget about the chinguard when I want a drink, and it gets in the way. I can manage this though.
I have had a cold that I cannot shake off since before Christmas. Hawking up and gobbing out a big lump of phlegm is something I’m not keen to do again in a hurry 😕

The chinbar is not tested as a part of standards testing and contains no EPS so will do little to take the energy out of impacts.

Had one for a couple of years and it did the job fine, used it in the alps and hit the floor and got face deflected from the rough stuff. Took plenty of heavyweight knocks and is still in the garage.

Feels very light weight compared to proper full face.

Now will pull up a chair and wait for the posts explaining how it will explode on impact etc. etc. etc.

I bought mine with a view to using it in the Alps. I’m usually happy enough riding all the South Wales trail centres with out pads or a FF hat, but decided to get one anyway.

Prior to MTB I did a lot of white-water kayaking and would regularly use a FF helmet.

Been my only choice of helmet for years now (previously a Giro Switchblade). Looks flimsy and a bit shit if I’m honest, but the chinguard does a decent job. Saved my face a few times, most recently nosediving off a 4′ skinny onto my ‘nads/stem and face/skinny. Couple of scrapes on the chinguard (not my face), nice lump on my pubis bone…

I was considering a change back to something like a Giro Xen prior to that most recent event too. Not now.

I bought one after a face / rock near interface. It is OK, but I found the padding way too thin, which made it rub, so I’ve gone back to using roadie lids instead.

If you’re instinct after crashing is to pad up more, and more and more…then buy a Parachute for XC riding.

Otherwise, perhaps you might want to get some expert advice as to why you spanked your face into rocks in the first place – in which case get some skillz! So, give a decent instructor a call.

The chinbar is not tested as a part of standards testing and contains no EPS so will do little to take the energy out of impacts.

So you definately know it will do little to take energy out of impacts because it hasn’t been tested? (how do you know, until it has been tested?)
Soz TJ, I know your’e Anti Lid! (dunno any of your other Aunties though.) 😉

I’ve got a Parachute but I’ve not yet crashed & burned while wearing it.

essel – because it is the EPS that absorbs the energy in helmets. Thats what reduces the injury – having the deceleration over a longer distance and some of the enrage getting dissipated in the collapse of the EPS. That is how helmets work.

As there is no EPS in the chinbar then these two mechanisms cannot work and they are the main ways that a helmet reduces injury.;

the jawbone sticks out an awful long way which seems like it’ll attract impacts and increase twisting etc

That’s so it’s not a PITA for breathing etc

The chinbar is not tested as a part of standards testing and contains no EPS so will do little to take the energy out of impacts.

It might stop stuff going into your face though. Has been said the jaw-bit splits and goes right into your face though.

Hmmm, I’ve actually busted 2 lids from whacking my heed on, a) a gate, & b) a tree stump. Don’t think either had an EPS thingywotsit though, & I suffered no serious injury from either.
I am however conviced that the ‘gate’ incident would have been very different without the lid. (I did see stars on impact)

That’s so it’s not a PITA for breathing etc

It’s a PITA for gozzing though. I kept forgetting, & hockling into the chinbar!

I’ve got one, and although not a replacement for a full face I do think that for many more minor offs on XC rides it will protect the face as it should.

essel – all helmets have EPS – thats the Expanded PolyStyrene liner., Its the main bit of the helmet and the bit that absorbs impact

TJ, I still think the gate (Wark Forest) would have come out on top had I not been wearing a lid. (wasn’t a Parrotshoot mind)
There again, it was a very unusual situation!

I think they look horrible.
Must admit, when I see one of them out xc riding, I do think his mum made him wear that, and the knee pads, and elbow pads, and shin pads, and back brace etc.
If you really feel your face is that pretty that you’d put that contraption on your head then fire on. 😀
Otherwise, look at how you managed to eat dirt in the first place and deal with it in a fashion conscious way. 😆

What meaningful difference would EPS make when compression is not, and cannot be, the failure mode?

Al – go and read up on how helmets work or read my explanation above. The EPS absorbs the energy. It gets comnpressed between your head and what yo hit. Thats how helmets work. They don’t need any rigidity.

That’s why helmets only work once.

It’s not quite that simple though, the chinpiece of any full facer isn’t designed to absorb blows in the same way as the skullcap (after all it’s mostly not in contact with anything). It’ll transmit some energy into the foam elsewhere though. Same with motorbike helmets, the amount of foam in the chinpiece is vestigal (it’s only about 10mm thick on my Arais but that thin foam is also full of air vents).

But, that’s only one part of it… Riddle me this, if gloves don’t have EPS or any similiar way of reducing an impact, does that mean they can’t protect you in a crash? If you take a hard hit full on the chin, it’ll push the helmet back and it’ll most likely not make an enormous amount of difference to the force of the blow- if you were going to break your jaw, then most likely you’re still going to. But, you’re not going to scrape your face off on a load of rock. It’ll also potentially do a bit of spreading and relocating the blow (a tree going for your teeth won’t get there)

the amount of foam in the chinpiece is vestigal (it’s only about 10mm thick on my Arais but that thin foam is also full of air vents)

Indeed. There’s actually zero on my MX helmet.

Full face helmets are to stop you getting gravel rash on your face.

See above TJ.

I don’t disagree with that northwind – apart from my FF motorcycle helmet has significant EPS in the chinbar. Chinbars on motorcycle helmets are not tested either IIRC.

All I was doing was pointing out the limitation of a helmet like the met parachute. Teh casco viper is a similar function helmet abut the chinbar is eps hence it will have greater protection

Al – go and read up how helmets work – as usual you actually fail to understand a fundamental point

I know how they work, stop grasping for assumptions about what I have said.

How can a chin-piece fit close enough to the face for compression to be the failure mode?

*hums* “the circle of life”

Oh, missed this one:

Me: the jawbone sticks out an awful long way which seems like it’ll attract impacts and increase twisting etc

cynic-al: That’s so it’s not a PITA for breathing etc

It sticks out further than my proper full face and it makes no difference to breathing, despite having more structure and coverage.

Al – I suggest you go and read up on this. You clearly don’t understand how a helmet works or have grasp of the physics involved and you won’t accept an explanation from me.

Northwind YOU WANT TO BATTLE ❓ 😡

My point was it’s not close to your face, and when they are they’re a PITA as they steam up yer goggles, tough to drink etc.

It was also about how EPS is not relevant.

TJ how does EPS in something a few cm away from your face achieve anything? it will break before absorbing any impact, unlike the shell?

Seriously, I think I understand how helmets work (I’ve broken half a dozen in crashes), but if I am missing something then let me know.

Al – its clear you actually have no idea about how helmets work.

Because the eps gets crushed between your face and the ground!
Absorbing some of the energy and reducing the magnitude of the deceleration by making it occur over longer distance

The forces involved are such that in a helmet like the met when you face plant your face will hit the inside of the chinbar as the helmet rotates round the head. With a rigid plastic chinbar you face will receive the same blow as it would without a chinbar – the only difference being as northwind says the gravel rash would be reduced but not the bone braking forces.

The rigid shell gives almost no impact absorbence – all it does is hold the eps in place.

http://www.bhsi.org/general.htm

Northwind YOU WANT TO BATTLE

Sure… Let’s do this the old navy way- first one to die loses.

Buuut, my point stands, it sticks out farther than it has to and that’s not good since it could turn into a nice lever in a crash, and it’ll hit the ground at times when your face wouldn’t get close. There’s a balance here but if I can drink and breathe almost normally in my Strike, with its far more enclosed chin which is much closer to my face, then the Parachute could be closer without problems. And that’d make it a better helmet. TBH I think the lack of competition means they get away with a fairly unambitious product.

Sorry TJ but you’re not making your point well. And kind of playing into Al’s hands.

Yes you are right, just because I asked a question, I have no idea about it at all

🙄

Seriously, take a longer break and stop making things personal.