So, first post. And a long one I’m afraid. Sorry ’bout that.

Being a frequent urban rider, I recently realized that nature is beautiful and, as such, rideable, as well. Without wasting any time, I rapidly cultivated the desire to build up a nice steel hardtail (no point in diverting me to other frame materials; it’s steel or nothing). So I’ve being stalking this forum for a while now, getting to know the British steel mountainbike scene. Quite impressed! Then, knowing NOTHING about mountainbiking I can only ask.

Question 1: riding style

I live in Crete. The weather is dry/warm almost all year round; no perpetual rain/bloomy skies, sorry. The trail structure around here is what you people would probably describe as loose over hardpack: lots of loose rocks and gravel on top of, well, rock solid, uhm, rock. The usual terrain involves repeated climbing and descending cycles, quite often at steep angles, too. So, I’m kind of torn regarding the frame type I should be after.

Should it be a nimble and lighter, steep-angles, low-travel climber or something heavier, stronger and slacker?

Keeping the budget below the 350 GBP limit, in the nimble climber category I’m looking at the Kinesis Decade Virsa, Rock Lobster 853, Charge Duster and Pipedream Scion/Sirrius. In the heavier category I’m considering the Cotic BFe (it’s on sale I think), Dialled Prince Albert (I think I saw an Alpine as well in the classifieds, but will anyone send a frame to Greece?) and the Ragley Blue pig or, more likely, the Piglet.

As I will probably be amateurishly slow and spend the majority of time rubbing my face in the dirt, perhaps all frames above will be absolute overkills for me. Nonetheless, some expert advice regarding both riding style, as well as frame brand/model suggestions I may be overlooking, will be highly appreciated.

Oh, there’s a question 2 coming up in another thread, regarding sizing.

On-One 456/Inbred should be on the list too (IMO)!

Oh – welcome.

as above

Thanks, truth be told, the inbred looks great. But I’m Greek and regardless of education and common sense, we compulsively obey a simple marketing rule: Pricier is better. If you want to sell crap to a Greek guy, go postal on the price. If my budget is 350 quid, my soul will be in peace only if I exceed it! Perhaps I can live with spending somewhat less, say 300. But 180? 180? can’t do that! it’s cheap!

Save up and buy a Cotic Soul. Thread closed 🙂

(can’t do that! it’s cheap!) welcome 😆

What Amos said.speak to me and I’ll face bb and ht.( just sent one to Greece!)

amateurishly slow and spend the majority of time rubbing my face in the dirt,

Well that there sets you apart from us – off course we do the same thing. But we never admit it. Stiff upper lip etc! It’s all the Frenchies fault. Honestly.

Anyways, welcome. Sorry – I cant help with 456’s – they’re 2 a penny here so just too common for us snobs. Ragley. That’s where cheapish is now.

@cycleworlduk :
two things: There will be ANOTHER cotic soul in Greece? NO WAY! can’t live with that, either: to pay a premium is ok, but be unique. To have another barbarian with the same bike in my back yard is unacceptable! Where’s the smugness in that?! But seriously, 480 is way over budget. The Decade, the Duster or the RL 853 seem reasonable compromises (if they qualify as a “compromise” at all). 🙂

@couldashouldawoulda: various sins I’ve committed here. Advertised this as my first post, called myself a newbie, admitted to be in serious jeopardy of hospitalization dare I proceed with my plan. Stiff upper lip? too late for that I guess. So I’ll also admit that the piglet exerts a strange attraction to me.

The pipedream is light and can take a 130mm fork so It falls into both the nimble and burly camps. It looks nice, it’s what I’m considering for my next frame. Dont let that put you off though,I have no plans to move to Cyprus.

You should consider the Ornage P7 too. It rides lighter than the scales would suggest. (my current bike)

If my budget is 350 quid, my soul will be in peace only if I exceed it! Perhaps I can live with spending somewhat less, say 300. But 180? 180? can’t do that! it’s cheap!

carbon 456 is the answer

Simples – Whyte 19 Steel. I think there are 2010 models left too as frames so Whyte dealers should be able to get hold of them. Really amazing bike and the seat stays are swoopy (!) So it looks cool.

456 and a cool paintjob… with matching fork lowers

456 carbon: kinda ugly in my eyes
whyte 19: expensive I guess and … silver?
Orange P7: If I was to give that kind of money, I’d probably go for the soul. Also, I don’t live in Cyprus; brush up your geography 🙂

Whyte 19 Steel – true enough but I saw the bit about spending more! Should be £649.00. Have only got medium but we’re selling them for £520.

I’ve got a Soul, a BFe and an Inbred and, from the description of your riding, I’d have said the Soul is by far the best option of those three. The BFe isn’t a bad climber by any means but it’s significantly heavier than the Soul (and the Inbred is heavier again) and tends to be bought at a smaller size (I have a medium Soul but a small BFe) which compromises it’s climbing.

The Inbred actually climbs pretty well (as it’s long) but it’s not light and feels a little bittle duller and less fun when compared to the Soul.

If it were my money I’d either be saving for the Soul or considering a 2nd hand one (my BFe and Soul frames were both 2nd hand – I think I paid about £250 for the Soul).

@epicsteve: Yes, I’m more likely to end up somewhere in the “nimble” category. Is there a supply of used Souls somewhere? anyone? Medium size? please? But other than that, how good is this soul anyway?! How much “worse” would a Decade virsa, or a Duster or a TIG 853 or a pipedream would be? The virsa is my most obvious choice right now and geometry is quite similar to the soul. I think.

Might be worth posting a “Wanted” add on the classifieds. Soul’s do come up from time to time, and there could be interested in selling their old ones in order to buy a newer one.

As regards how good it is – it’s fantastic. Can’t compare it to the other frames mentioned though!

Add the Sanderason bikes to your list. The life/breath are similar gemoetry to the inbred, but cost double and look quite a lot nicer.

I ride the 853 one (life?) and its ace, even with a 110mm stem for propper XC it handles great, keep meaning to try a 90mm stem but can’t be bothered as its getting better he more I get used to it.

I have a 456 and its great, but to be honest its overkill unless you live in a properly techy area.

If you’re new to MTB I’d advise against 130mm+ travel hardtails, they’re an aquired tastes and even as a die hard fan of them I’d have to admit that theyre seriously comprimised and take a lot of effort to get the most out of, where shorter travel is much better uphill and untill things get really rocky they’re just as capable downhill, at which point full suspension would be a big advantage anyway.

Has anyone brought up the On-one chain suck issue?

Any frame that saws itself in half when it sees a puddle is a poor investment.

Apart from that my Inbred is a total weapon, comfortable on the climbs and nimble on the way down, jumps well too.

Pale Limestone? (I’m thinking Samaria gorge). I reckon you’ll be wanting some large volume but small block tyres to rag around on your steep, fast, dusty, rocky terrain (I’m envious). So get a frame with decent room at the chainstays for a larger volume tyre.

If you get a long travel fork, get one that winds/locks down which makes angles much more comfortable for climbing big hills.

Whatever steel HT you get will be fairly unique in your area. What about the Genesis Altitude or Alpitude?

BTW. Now you’ve stopped lurking, we expect a stream of pictures and videos of you riding in Crete!

Surely someone will be along to sell you an Inbred for £350, including postage of course!

Has anyone brought up the On-one chain suck issue?

Never happened on my 456, was run 2×9 with a med cage rear mech which probably helped.

The new Ragley Bagger available from March 25th perhaps?

I’m seriously tempted by one of those myself.

@buzz-lightyear: Genesis? likey likey. I was thinking about the Latitude though. But it’s still on the expensive side…

I recently bought a dialled alpine and absolutely love it. brilliant fun confidence inspiring bike. And not all that common either….

Have a look at chakapings psa re duster frames in medium for £199- blummin good deal

I was looking to get a 456 as an eBay purchase and completely by chance I got a Saracen Zen 631 steel hardtail for £70. Thought it was worth a punt for an occasional hardtail built up of parts but I was wrong. It ended up worth a punt to chuck well over twice my budget on it and it to be my go-to-bike!!

It’s definitely an overlooked one as it’s a Saracen but I think it makes a cracking bike, might just be cos it’s my first long travel, steel ht.

Also look at the Cove Handjob.
afaik the Charge Dusters come in two varieties. One has the better Tange Prestige tubing.
I’ve had the 456 and currently a Duster. Both are good. Duster feels happier with shorter forks.