Never been before but me and Mrs Sox are holidaying on the Lleyn in July so figured I ought to check it out.
fantastic place with a whole host of trails for every skill level. if you've been riding a while but haven't got much time ride the tarw trail (old karrimor trail), its awesome. if you've got more time then do the beast, 30-32km i think and its brill, long descents and fantastic single track.
if you've not ben before you'll love it
It's certainly worth riding but can I suggest that if you've got the time you do the Pont Scethin route instead, navigation is straightforward and it's a bloody huge day out.
[url= http://www.flattyresmtbroutes.com/MawddachPontScethin.html ]Pont Scethin[/url]
Or drag yourself up Cadir Idris, that's good fun too.
People will slate it for being 'sanitised' compared to what it used to be like but I reckon its the best trail centre I've been to (all of the Stanes, Dalby and the other North Wales centres). The Beast is an awesome ride but be sure to stop at the cafe halfway around for cream tea!
It is frankly rubbish compared to what there was, and there's much better North (Penmachno) or south (Climachx, Nant-y-Arian) now. Most of the good singletrack has been replaced by either pointless rock slabs or the BMX-style 'thin fireroad' of Llandegla et al. I'd second Pont Scethin too - that really is a good route done the correct way round (i.e. in the bikefax guide) and not the wrong way round (flattyresmtb.co.uk - the one linked up there). If you would like a guide, there's loads of decent stuff if you know where to look, and I'm only in Bangor. However, if having a grumpy northerner-in-exile tagging along isn't your idea of a holiday, may I suggest www.bike-fax.com - it's a great guide, and the money goes to people who do a lot for MTBing.
Back to CyB:
MBR is still the MBR, but with a few changes to remove the better descents and replace with smooth swoopy stuff (about 20 k)
Red Bull is now the Tarw - over teh side where the old cafe was, but some new stuff - not really worth a trip on its own, and about 15 k
Dragon's back - a watered down version of the old karrimor - 30k but pretty tame
The Beast - 40 k, nowhere near as tough as the karrimor used to be, and most of the descent bits have now been watered down to swoopy Llandegla-esque skill-free dross. You could make it a bit more like it used to be by adding the Tarw to it to at least get some of the original single track from over the other side of the road.
Basically, IMO, as a relative local it's a crying shame what the FC did to CyB. I used to ride there almost weekly, now it's nearly 2 years since I last rode there, and they were in the process of 'renovating' the singletrack then. I've not heard great before and after comparisons from other riders, so haven't gone back, and neither have most of the others I ride with up here. The Adams family descents, Herman and the Pink Heiffer were some of the best man-made trails about, now all gone...
How anyone can comapare its current state to even the dreariest 'Staine' is a mystery to me. 4 years ago, YES, now, it makes the Marin trail seem interesting. (And at least that can be taxing if done fast)
I like the Marin, I like Penmachno and LLandegla more, but I really dislike cyb now. Went to it for the first time a few years ago when it was based on the other side of the road, had a great time, been back two or three times to the new set up and found the carparking and centre overpriced and routes fairly bland, I don't enjoy riding over pointless sections of rock slabs on the flat, it's not a challenge, it's not exciting, it's just a pain! (perhaps I'm spoilt with the peaks on my doorstep) 🙂
Well I thought it was great - did the Beast and it was really good, some techy stuff and some nice fast flowy stuff. I ride in the Lakes all the time and have ridden a few other welsh trail centres and most of the Stanes. I think some people miss the point of trail centres, it's not meant to be like a natural trail.
Been twice, Rode the twar (sp), MBR and the Beast.
I think they are just a bit dated now. I certainly would never go back.
Go and check it out for yourselves would be my advice, I went last year for the first time and loved it. But the only what you'll know for sure is to ride there. As good as it used to be? possibly not, but I don't know what i've missed so why worry?
Perhaps I'm easily pleased, as I love riding everywhere from Kirroughtree to Sherwood Pines to the Lakes and Peak District to Dalby and the welsh trail centres.
Told you toxicsoks!
Some of the singletrack is now definately better if you really attack it. I wouldn't compare it to Penmachno (ie, some fireroad with the odd half decent downhill singletrack section in the middle of nowhere with no facilities).
Do it yourself and make an opinion. Mine is that its great as long as you ride it so fast you scare yourself. I think some people don't ride it quick enough!
Yep, one mans meat another mans poison.
I think Penmachno is one of the best manmade's I have ever ridden. 8)
I think some people miss the point of trail centres, it's not meant to be like a natural trail.
Well, 4 years ago it was much more like a natural trail. Now it's like a giant BMX-park in the woods
Some of the singletrack is now definately better if you really attack it. I wouldn't compare it to Penmachno (ie, some fireroad with the odd half decent downhill singletrack section in the middle of nowhere with no facilities).
If you apply the 'really attack it' theory to Penmachno, and are actually fit enough to ride the flatter sections with some speed, I think you'll find Penmachno to be miles ahead. It should be too: the [b]original[/b] CyB trail builders were behind some of it...
I've spent a few weekends at CDB but rate Afan higher.
Less fire trails - which can be tedious.
Tim
its good if your not a very good rider
Well, 4 years ago it was much more like a natural trail.
Yeah and what's the point of that when there are already hundreds of miles of natural trails in Wales?
Now it's like a giant BMX-park in the woods
Yup and it's ace.
Penmachno is good too but CyB is better. I like the way you try to claim other people aren't fit enough to enjoy Penmachno. 🙂
its good if your not a very good rider
What a ridiculously arrogant comment.
I'm with Zokes on this one. There's always going to be people who enjoy the trails as they are now, but the changes have killed it for me.
just in response to zokes, he right, the flattyres route is the wrong way round (I should have checked it sorry), we based an epic ride on the bikefax route, you can find a link to it on this thread
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/pont-scethin-bit-of-local-advice-please ]Pont Scentin Thread[/url]
I don't agree that CyB has gone down hill but admit that I've only ridden it half a dozen times over 8 years.
My advice would be to stay in the Bothy, ride Pont Scethin one day and CyB the other, the trails run within 300 yards of the bothy.
On trail centres in general, I think it's ace that they each have their own characters and have differing appeal, for me Penmachno starts off badly but gets progressivly better, I've ridden bits of Glentress and Laggan and didn't think they were any better or worse than CyB.
Now it's like a giant BMX-park in the woods
Yup and it's ace.
Well, that's what Llandegla and Brechfa are for, and do it much better IMO. Horses for courses...
It makes sense to have some trails like natural trails. After all, it takes the best bits of riding, but means you don't need a map. I just don't understand why the FC chose to destroy some of the best man made stuff in the country for sub-standard, 1m+ wide smooth swoopy stuff. They could have tarmacced it and it wouldn't be any easier. (Well, actually I do understand, it's all about money, and with the exception of the 'fun' trail, CyB used to be too difficult for anyone who wasn't pretty experienced.
I like the way you try to claim other people aren't fit enough to enjoy Penmachno.
Good, because I meant it. The usual gripes because you have to pedal a bit to get some speed amuse me. Same applies for the Marin - if you don't find the singletrack there (and I concede it does seem to have a lot of fireroads) taxing, you're simply not riding fast enough....
Mountainbiking is one of those sports where you simply have to be quite fit to enjoy stuff at speed. I'm not the fittest by a long way, and on an uplift day at Cwmcarn recently, I discovered a whole new load of muscles I'd obviously not found a use for previously. I know I would have enjoyed that more had I had more upper body and quad fitness, and it's that lack of fitness that prevented me from attacking the course a bit more. (That, and my inherent jey-ness)
On trail centres in general, I think it's ace that they each have their own characters and have differing appeal,
This is the main point of my argument. CyB [b]DID[/b] have its own character. Now the FC seem to want mould it round other trail centres, when they'd have been much better off leaving it as it was. Llandegla and Brechfa do fun and swoopy; The Marin, Penmachno and NyA do tight and twisty, and The Climachx does and CyB did rocky and rooty as well as twisty. Now all CyB seems to be is a poor imitation of Llandegla, with a few flat rock slabs thrown in for some poor Staines imitation.
And btw I thought there were bits of the MBR trail that were reasonably techy - I ride all the time in the Lakes on stuff most people consider fairly rocky/techy.
I didn't find Penmachno too pedally, I enjoyed it - and I'm not that fit.
whenever we went the oracle(worked in the shop) used to give us a route off piste to do.sometimes using the hiking routes.twas awesome
Now all CyB seems to be is a poor imitation of Llandegla
They are completely different imo, (ridden both in the last 12 months) in terms of technicality, scale, variation, physicality etc. In fact apart from both being trail centres the only things they have in common are good cafes.
Now all CyB seems to be is a poor imitation of Llandegla
What a ludicrous statement, honestly. I quite like Llandegla but that really is a BMX park in the woods.
I do attack Penmachno and the singletrack sections are good. Its just the tedious fireroads inbetween that get on my nerves.
Llandegla is also good if your not a very good rider
Llandegla is good if you are good enough to actually ride it fast and jump off everything. It's not good if you're a joyless snob.
Jeez, this place is great. OP asks for some advise on a place to ride and everyone gets all tribal and angry.
Get a massage people and ride your bike. Its all good.
dont even ask me about penmachno 🙄
Sorry you're right - it's just the kind of arrogant snobby attitude displayed by some in this thread that is one of the things I really hate about mountain biking. 'I'm better than you because I ride a singlespeed, I'm better than you cos I ride at a certain trail centre, I'm better than you cos I don't ride at trail centres at all.' lalalalalalalalala
my work here is done
*skips off*
I have no problem with llandegla. I enjoy llandegla. But I would have preferred to have a choice of smooth-fast-swoopy at llandegla and rocky-rooty-twisty at CyB like it used to be. Now I have the choice of smooth-fast-swoopy-pointless-rock-slabs at CyB, or smooth-fast-swoopy done much better at Llandegla
But as I appear to be a joyless snob, I simply ride from my back door in the Carneddau range these days, negating my need for trail centres completely 🙂
Oh, well, that prompted a bit of debate. I feel I ought to report back after I've ridden it. * NB - not fast or, particularly, technically accomplished 😐 *
Zokes with bit between teeth... 😉 ... but the point is well made CyB DID have character, it was root, rocky and techy and very natural in a challenging & interesting way. I learnt a lot riding there in the early days - the Adam descents were classics that are sadly no more. I have fond memories of cleaning the whole thing succesfully for the first time on my old Zaskar repleat with orange Z1 bombers... 🙂
The older you get the better it was 😥
CyB is a victim of its success and the old rooty and randomly rocky trails are not 'sustainable' with traffic levels as they are now (one could argue that trail sanitisation is a cause of this increased traffic, chicken and egg).
Definitely worth a visit to make your own mind up and...
...put the midge repellent on **before** opening up in the car park!! 🙂
Paul
ART - I see your Zaskar with Bombers, and raise you my green GT Outpost with Marzocchi Zokes Pros (not the later imitation non-zocchi Zokes either...) 😀
i feel like going back there.not been since 2003 🙂
I'm happy to concede that it's still good fun, just that it's been horrendously dumbed down from what it was. I'm sure if I rode there once a year or so I'd still enjoy that day. The point is that it's not what it was, and especially given that it was the proper first trail centre in the UK, I find it a crying shame the way the FC have 'taken it forward'.
My current use for the place is as a meeting venue as it's exactly halfway between Aber and Bangor Universities - quite handy for project meetings over a coffee!
It's interesting how perception differs and how time affects this, but the last time I was at CyB we rode the MBR and I remember thinking how rocky it was compared to the other trail centres I'd ridden (with the exception of Laggan) and even compared to how it was the time I ridden before (when the old cafe was open).
I loved those bombers I did ... 😀 credited with giving me the confidence to hurl myself off rocky stuff. Not bad for a girl in the days when you really didn't see that many on the trails 8) but that's a whole other thread methinks 😉 It's all biking and it's all good, roll on the weekend.
Agree with Nick - I thought the MBR section of the Beast was pretty techy and rocky - compared to pretty much any trail centre I've been to.
Grumm - I thought the MBR section of the Beast was pretty techy and rocky - compared to pretty much any trail centre I've been to.
Me, earlier on - MBR is still the MBR, but with a few changes to remove the better descents and replace with smooth swoopy stuff (about 20 k)
The MBR is probably the least changed, however its signature descent (The Pink Heiffer) has been replaced with just the sort of llandegla-esque dross i've been moaning about
It's fine. Some knackered sections of trail have been replaced with easy stuff but then again you can sit on the balcony of the cafe and see a succession of people stacking it on the very first section. There's enough to keep you busy for a day or two and there are loads more trails, natural and man-made nearby.
Grumm you're right fella it's more techy and rocky than most, I ride the N Wales centres frequntly (Landegla last night!) CYB is the best!
Zokes you say you've not ridden it for 2 years perhaps you should try it again for a more recent perspective?
Zokes you say you've not ridden it for 2 years perhaps you should try it again for a more recent perspective?
No need to. Last time I was there, they had just started on replacing most of the old karrimor descents, and hand just completed the abomination that's the Pink Heiffer's replacment. When I enquired as to what the plans were, the (name withheld so as not to incriminate him) guy basically apologised and said H&S and 'erosion' were the main reasons behind it, with a view that they'd make more money if it was easier so more less-experienced riders could ride there. He doesn't ride there any more either...
Hmmm..so your opinion is based on what somebody told you?..it's changed in 2 years but not worsened I'd say!...just ride it yourself then you'll know for sure eh?
I'd had thought I could trust that 'somebody's' viewpoint. They had day-to-day experience of the place.... I'm sure it's still enjoyable once in a while, but just a shadow of its former self.
A group of the 'clent duffers' are up @ CYB this weekend for Votchy's post 40th weekend piss up. I've last ridden at CYB about 5 years ago so can't remember much /any of it. Who gives a ****, if it's not as pedaly / swoopy/ gnarly/ jey as the other trails, it's a week end away riding bikes and drinking beer. And eating lard.
Cheers for the nod towards the pont Scentin trail too. We'll possibly give that a look see too.
it's a week end away riding bikes and drinking beer. And eating lard.
Amen to that!
To call pink heifer a signature descent is a bit of an overstatement IMO. it was pretty much a mess from about a week after it was built, owing to the fact it went down the fall line. the reason it was re-built was a combination of, soil erosion, the fact that after each and every heavy rainfall huge bits of it would tumble off down the hill side, and it would need shoring up everytime, the amount of traffic, and latterly safety. Zokes' obvious Rad skillz notwithstanding, people were getting hurt on it frequently enough to make it an issue. The same is the case for the Adamms bits, they just weren't sustainable given traffic levels. It's two bits out of miles and miles of trails which have largely remained unchanged.
To answer the OP, It's a fun day out, probably a bit harder technically from what you're used to, no maps needed, cafe, miles of trails without walkers, you'll have a blast.
I remember riding it back in the day, just after the first few sections of trail had been completed and pretty regular in those first few years. It was pretty ace back then. Of what is left up there now, I'd agree the MBR is the least changed and probably all that is worth doing. Its def nowhere near what it once was - and I'm normally all in favour of a bit of swoopy super fast singletrack.
I'd def prefer to go explore some off piste riding up there in preference to the sanitised trails now, but then I've had years of the welsh fir forest trail centre experiance and my opinion is tainted by that. They're all much of a muchness compared to the fantastic variety you can find with a map and/or a local.
Zokes' obvious Rad skillz
I can genuinely say you are the first person to say that about my riding /chuckles...
From my one trip to scotland, I found CyB as it was considerably easier than some sections up in the Staines, which are also obviously FC managed, so how parts can be classed as dangerous when there's plenty worse up there remains a mystery...
It's two bits out of miles and miles of trails which have largely remained unchanged.
Herman's gone too, I believe. Sure, change the tracks because they can't cope with the amount of traffic, and they've attracted near novices who can't cope with it. Why not just close all the singletrack and leave the fire roads open? That way noone gets hurt, there's no risk, and little erosion. FC lawyers can sleep happy. The regrettable way in which the trails were built by genuine hard work by a few, then taken over and 'managed' by the FC is frankly deplorable, but that's also for another thread, and was done to death at the time...
Herman's gone too, I believe. Sure, change the tracks because they can't cope with the amount of traffic, and they've attracted near novices who can't cope with it. Why not just close all the singletrack and leave the fire roads open? That way no one gets hurt, there's no risk, and little erosion. FC lawyers can sleep happy. The regrettable way in which the trails were built by genuine hard work by a few, then taken over and 'managed' by the FC is frankly deplorable, but that's also for another thread, and was done to death at the time...
That’s what happens when business takes the lead 😥
[i]and they've attracted near novices who can't cope with it.[/i]
It's not that at all, if that were the case, as you suggest the whole thing would pulled, and it hasn't. Pink Heifer was never sustainable. Ever, in a million years, and for CYB to continue it has to be sustainable, too much money was being channeled into that little bit of the trail, it wasn't built properly, and it was in the wrong place. Sure, it was fun, but it's gone, and it's never coming back.
Sofatester, right from the get go, CYB always has been, and always will be a business.
CYB is a trail centre & has man made trails, some bits are better than others & it has mainly fire road climbs.It's fun & I like it more than Penmachno,The Marin,'Degla or Nant....
You might love it or then again might hate it but until you ride it you won't know.....
Sure, it was fun, but it's gone, and it's never coming back.
You could apply that sentence to most of CyB...
right from the get go, CYB always has been, and always will be a business.
Fine. But that very change in business direction is what has driven a lot of locals who would come and ride every weekend, and spend money at the car park and cafe every weekend away. Instead, it's now attractive to people who drive 3+ hours to get there once in a blue moon. So sustainably, instead of attracting and keeping locals who don't drive far, it's focussing on pulling in lots of people who drive much further. How sustainable is that?
Most of the Pink Heiffer could have been fixed with decent drains cut [u]lower[/u], not higher (as some were) than the trail. Again, safety-wise, that section and the chute at the bottom of the Adams Family (probably the two most technical bits at CyB) were nothing compared to some of the trouble the uninitiated could get themselves into at Scottish FC sites. Risk of slithering slowly into a tree at CyB vs risk of finding oneself 10 feet in the air on the final descent at Inners or Ae. Looking at it as a beginner, I know which fate i'd prefer...
Sofatester, right from the get go, CYB always has been, and always will be a business.
Read again nickc and you will get what I mean. Yes, they where making money of mountain bikers back in the day(TM)but the difference was that is was run by the locals who wanted to promote there trails. Now it’s just about taking as much money per head as possible, the trails are just a handy magnet.
Agreed Zokes
Now everyone, lets take a chill pill and ride our bikes 😀
I first raced around there in an NWMBA race circa 1991 and loved the area even if I did have a massive crash which removed half my arse.... So I fit into the 'it's been sanitised' camp. When I started mountain biking again around '98 I was amazed that the pastime had come on so far, with trails like the Adams Family, or whatever those three good sections on KM were called being built specifically for mountain bikers. But these days CyB sums up British mountain biking.....ride cruisy trails with bikes with 6" of travel.
As an ex-guide, I noticed that Scottish and Welsh people to had access to decent trails were generally pretty good riders, whereas English riders who have grown up driving to trail centres and riding Shyte 46s or whatever were fuhucking awful. But as already mentioned, these people tend to spend the most money so I guess trails have to be matched to them....Joy.
Ah, now all becomes clear, You're all whiny and embittered 'cause it's not "like is was back in day, a local spot for local riders"...Why didn't you say so?
Ha...I lived around three hours away.
I dont like trail centres its just not my thing. However I went to CyB 2 months ago mid week got there midday and the place was deserted there were just 2 other cars in the car park at midday. I think us 4 more than doubled the MTBrs that day unless everyone turns up in the evening. The staff in the caff and bike shop looked tottaly bored and glad to see someone.
I have to grit my teeth in saying it but it was fun in a predictable way a quick giggle downhill tempered by the knowledge that there is a sodding fireroad climb to come. Is there anything more soul destroying than winding up a gravel road through pine monoculture.
We stayed in Blaenau Festshitholeiniog for the night and hit Snowdon early next morning didnt quite get to summit because we ran out of time and got totally soaked but enjoyed it immensley.
CyB is good fun, go there without any expectations and its a laugh. I found most of the trails to be entertaining, love pins and needles.
But yes a lot of the trails can be just blasted on a decent FS, kind of point and shoot stuff. Fun however but anyone used to there would get a nasty shock riding in the peak and other natural places.
I have to grit my teeth in saying it but it was fun in a predictable way a quick giggle downhill tempered by the knowledge that there is a sodding fireroad climb to come.
which you pound up either to beat your mates or because you know there's a sweet bit of singletrack up ahead, don't you?
Is there anything more soul destroying than winding up a gravel road through pine monoculture.
Give me fireroads over arguments about whether one trail centre is better than another 🙂
Is there anything more soul destroying than winding up a gravel road through pine monoculture.
I can think of plenty of things more soul-destroying. At least you are out on your bike. Bloody hell some people love to moan don't they.
Is there anything more [b]soul destroying[/b] than winding up a gravel road through pine monoculture[b]?[/b]
Yeah, working in a Hackney jobcentre.
Anyway, I like CYB. Maybe it was better, but it's still not shite.
Dr Dolittle - MemberIs there anything more soul destroying than winding up a gravel road through pine monoculture?
Yeah, working in a Hackney jobcentre.
Anyway, I like CYB. Maybe it was better, but it's still not shit
Didnt say it was shite didnt say it used to be better because I couldnt say
but given the choice between spending 3 1/2 hours going round a trail centre or 3 hours grunting up Snowdon followed by half an hour of non stop downhill that nearly made me wee myself 20 times I know which I would have
Didnt say it was shite didnt say it used to be better because I couldnt say
Didn't say you said it was shite, just said it wasn't shite. Don't know if it is shite now compared to before I rode it for the first time a few months back when it wasn't shite. Who knows whether it is shite or not? If it is shite I like shite trail centres...end of.
CyB is good fun, go there without any expectations and its a laugh.
Agreed, but when the original CyB trails gave such high expectations, why water it down? I have high expectations of CyB because it used to deserve them, not because other trail centres made me think CyB should be good, but (I say again) because CyB deserved them in its own right, and WAS one of the best in the UK. As Scotland upped the ante, wales took two steps back with the 'improvements' at CyB. That's why I moan, and it's why I shall continue to do so.
CyB was treated with great indifference by the FC up until the point some cynical middle-manager bureaucrat thought they could turn it into a cash cow. They 'redeveloped' the trails, build a new shiny trail centre that's a useless shape, put a poncy cafe in it with appalling service and worse food, and sat there and waited for the BMW and Audi 4x4 drivers to come flocking to see 'the countryside TM'. In order to do this, they turfed out the very people who'd made the place a viable business opportunity without even giving them first shout at the cafe franchise.
As for the trails? Meh. I'm sure they're enjoyable to most. My gripe is it used to be much better and was unnecessarily and unimaginatively meddled with, when a little more thought could have preserved and improved what was effectively a historic step in mountain biking in the UK, instead of trampling it under smooth 1.5-track which might as well be tarmac for all the challenge it represents. Hell, the FC even had a go at trying to stop the secret cafe in the woods from selling cakes and tea to monopolise the business further..
[/b]put a poncy cafe in it with appalling service and [b]worse food,
Agreed here, the food is shite.
I remember going my first time to CYB and riding all the trails over successive weekend. I can't remember anything particularly technical and I was a far worse rider then. I went again after the renewals and it was okish again.
For me its
The Lakes
The Peak
Drumlanrigg
Dalbeatie
then the rest
But I live in Canada now do I don't really give a **** anymore, theres better, gnarlier descents within 5 mins of my fornt door. You're welcome to come and check them out
Zokes, I am not a BMW/Audi driver and I spend lots of time in the 'real countryside' - and I thought it was great. I did it with a few mates, some of whom don't bike that much, including my gf, who found the MBR actually a bit too tough. Perhaps I should have berated her and explained how easy it actually is compared to the glory days of the past.
I can see that there perhaps should have been more consultation and attempts to keep in some of the more challenging elements, but I think the level of negativity you display is way over the top. It's still a great facility for biking, just obviously not to your taste any more. I don't think it's that unreasonable to make trails that the vast majority of people will enjoy and many will still find challenging in places, rather than appealing just to an elite few. I would say it still compares favourably to pretty much any trail centre I have been to except Kirroughtree.
Given the number of trails there, a 'proper' black run would be nice though.
Still going... can see everyones' points but still agreeing with Zokes on this one.
Theres no doubt in my mind that most of the UK trail centre have been made more mass-market in the last five years.
The style of trail has changed too, from a more technical micro terrain to lovely smooth wiggly bmx tracks in the woods that go up and down a bit as they go along. Theres also more emphasis on jumps and drops than there were in certain locations.
IMO CyB remains the most technical of the welsh trail centres but has been sanitised since the early days to satisfy the aforementioned mass market.
I've got no problem per-se with trail centres. In the depths of winter, you can't beat getting away from the mud and getting some quality riding in, but for me in general its much less satisfying than 'natural trails' - whatever they are.
Going mass market will just force those riders that don't find the technical challenege they're after back to what they used to do - ride the wilder places.
who found the MBR actually a bit too tough
/Bangs head against wall/
I've said that the MBR is the least changed, with the most notable exception being what was possibly the best descent at CyB being removed (Pink Heiffer). So...... Take the rest of the MBR as an example, and that's a bit more like what the rest of the place used to be. For the best feel, Snap Crackle and Pop, R74 and Flightpath are all still there on the other side under the re-branded Red Bull (now Tarw). Now compare those bits to what's replaced 1) The Pink Heiffer, 2) The Adams family, 3) Herman, and you will either see where I'm coming from, or I'm never going to get the point across.
Whilst I accept that erosion was a problem on some of those descents, the main issue was water erosion that could easily have been fixed with some proper repairs and drainage. The main reason that most were changed was H&S. As I've said before, you could get yourself into much more serious trouble as a beginner at most red routes of the the more recently built 7 Staines trails. So why dumb down one centre because of "'elf 'n' safety innit", whilst making man-made jumps, drops and obstacles such as those found on the final descents at Inners and Ae? Mountain biking [i]is[/i] a dangerous sport - that's why most of us do it. Best not go outside then.....
Snap crackle and pop are a shadow of what they were before they were armoured, but that was a good while ago.
/Bangs head against wall/I've said that the MBR is the least changed, with the most notable exception being what was possibly the best descent at CyB being removed (Pink Heiffer). So...... Take the rest of the MBR as an example, and that's a bit more like what the rest of the place used to be. For the best feel, Snap Crackle and Pop, R74 and Flightpath are all still there on the other side under the re-branded Red Bull (now Tarw). Now compare those bits to what's replaced 1) The Pink Heiffer, 2) The Adams family, 3) Herman, and you will either see where I'm coming from, or I'm never going to get the point across.
Yeah but why does it all have to be like the MBR for it to be any good? What's wrong with a bit of variety? My gf loved the nice smooth, swoopy bits, and I enjoyed them as a contrast to the techy sections. Maybe you're not going fast enough? 😛
I will let you know next week what I think, me and a few fellow members of the Clent Duffers (tm) are going as part of my 40th celebrations, we will be armed with 5" full sussers and a sense of humour, can't wait to get going 😀
this thread has made me want to go back
After having said last year, following a day in the Peak District, that I would never go to a Welsh centre again, I've been to CyB twice this year.
Last Friday we did half the Tarw (rode straight up to Flightpath and came back down, missing out all the fireroad stuff) then did The Beast (missing out the stupid fireroad climb by taking a left just after the cafe and getting straight to Gomez.
Yes, bits have been sanitised but most was excellent. Pink Heifer and Big Dug are great. For max singletrack action, add Dream Time into the loop as well, but this requires map reading skills, combined with looking at the posts.
When you get to the point of saying to yourself "Oh No - not another fast rocky technical downhill section" you know there's enough good stuff.