[Closed] P7 Torch Adaptor / 18650 Holder

Registered interest before on here.

If that's been lost, still count me in for full kit.

Same name - CustardCream.

Thanks.

I think I registered some interest previously too - maybe with a "yorkshire" in my name then...

Oh, and red anodised for me! 😀

Looks great Rich, I'm still interested. Well done.

could you not just drill a hole in the adapter to bolt it to an existing QR Handle bar mount like this?:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=6091

Looking good.

I should have mentioned that I have a note of everyone who registered interest before on my ever increasing spreadsheet, the only issue will be that I didn't note down everybody's email addresses, so if they haven't re-registered, or don't have an email address in their profile now, I'll struggle to contact them.

I haven't really addressed the issue of mounts, as everyone seems to have their own preferences - I like the lock-blocks as they are cheap and versatile. I also want to buy as few parts as possible to minimise the amount of stock I have to buy in advance and financial outlay.

Cheers, Rich

Still interested

I'd be interested in one for sure.

Sorry, I'll re-word that ;o)

would it be possible for us to drill a hole in the adapter to mount a suitable QR handlebar mount?

Hi,

I'm still interested.

petebeale@gmail.com.

count me in

simonatwork@hotmail.com

im interested too. Can you repeat the pricing? Cheers!

yep still keen

which p7 torch do you recommend

interested too - thanks. WHat sort of price would these be at?

Count me in too!!

craikhome@googlemail.com

Yep interested

Markcook.220bpm at virgin.net

Still interested chris dot salt at derbyshire dot gov dot uk

looking good ferret halljoinery@hotmail.com

Put me down for 2 pls
crow123@tiscali.co.uk

tell me when!

I have a few friends who would be interested in these, could you post some info about price etc.
my mail is in my profile..thanks

Right, apologies for delayed response, been busy removing a gearbox from my motorbike 😥 and also working on these holders over the weekend.

Repeating the pricing (slightly revised due to cable costs being higher than I'd anticipated)

Battery pack without cable ~ £12
Battery pack with cable ~ £17 (with 2.5mm male plug) - increased from 2.1mm
Battery pouch ~ £7
P7 tail cap (to replace the battery tube) ~ £20

Complete package ~ £37

All would have about £1 postage on top to the UK, a bit more to the rest of the world

The internals of the adaptor are potted - this eliminates the need for lots of screw in bits and pieces as the P7 has, must suitable to short runs when trying to keep costs down, and assuming every-thing's OK to begin with, should ensure it remains so!

The cables I'll be using are [url= http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4143 ]these[/url], up from 2.1mm as I was struggling to find ready made cables at sensible prices in that size.

I am undecided on the idea of putting a threaded hole in the side for a mount. The wall thickness of the adaptor is only 1.5mm, so there wouldn't be a huge number of threads gripping on, so a fair chance of potential stripping. Of greater concern, would be the potential for internal shorts. The body is the negative, and the internal contacts are positive, if the attachment screw was a bit long, then it could short out the battery pack. With 4 cells, this could be some considerable current before the protection circuitry kicked in, which could fuse everything together in a bit of a mess 😯

I'd be much more comfortable avoiding this issue entirely 😀

Right, the prototype is up and running with the internals all potted, and works nicely - a fair bit brighter than my 5-mode P7 on full power. It does generate a good deal of heat, hopefully this'll stabilise to something sensible when on the move.

I also have another mould in process, using my new vacuum degassing chamber, hopefully bubbles will be an issue of the past!

[img] [/img]

He'll be cured by this evening, I might even manage to cast the first one tonight.

Cheers, Rich

is the jack plug/socket at the back waterproof?

Guys,

It is with great regret that I will not be continuing to pursue the P7 adaptor concept 🙁

There has been overwhelming enthusiasm from MTBíers all over the world, much more than I had envisaged when I started messing around with battery holders. I am very sorry to disappoint a lot of keen prospective buyers.

Let me explain - I had rather naively assumed that one P7 was the same as another, and I could produce a universal fitting to replace the battery tube. However, while they look the same from the outside, the internals seem to change quite frequently, which would at worst render the adaptor useless, or at best mean it would only fit a few torches. Trying to keep track of design changes and produce a guide of what torch a potential buyer has, and thus which adaptor is required, is beyond what I am willing to do. Given the potential for large numbers of returns on adaptors which won't fit, and the very small profit margin on each one, the chances of making a considerable loss are pretty high. I would also have to keep a fairly high inventory level of parts, and commit to fair sized production runs, so despite the provisional orders, the risk is high.

I will still be making 4 x 18650 battery holders, and pouches, suitable for DIYíers or people wanting an external pack for existing lights, but not a complete system. I cast my first finished holder using my rapid prototyped mould, and it's excellent, fantastic surface finish and geometrically perfect.

[img] [/img]

If people want one of these, I'll be making quite a few, £12 + postage to anywhere in the world, let me know, will have them available very shortly in 4S1P, 2S2P or 1S4P.

Thank you to everyone for their constructive comments and useful input over the past month or so, it has been great to tap into a wealth of knowledge, ideas and experience. It has been great fun, and kept me amused for a good few weekends and evenings, but a number of variables seem to be conspiring against me. Sorry for letting you down.

Cheers, Rich

ah i'll bet your gutted after all the hard work research etc.. it was looking good too.. 😥

That's a shame Rich, but good on ya for having a bloody good go. Put me down for 2 of the holders with pouches, I'll just have to bodge my own.

Why don't you get in touch with Deal-Extreme and sell them your concept at a small fee 💡

Turboferret - how gutting for you and for us hopeful customers.

Has anyone got any good ideas as to how to connect the battery holder to a P7 torch without one of turboferret's screw-in adapters?

Gutted Rich as I'm sure you are. I was looking forward to building a double light syste. I'll need to have a bit of a rethink about how to take out the middle section of the battery.

Good effort all the same.

It is a shame, I'm a bit disappointed, but there seemed to be too many variables to contend with.

I have spent a lot more time and money on the battery holder itself than the torch adaptor, so not a huge amount wasted really, it's been an interesting little project.

A few ideas for rigging up external power to a P7, first decision is whether you make a dummy 18650 cell, or connect direct to the battery terminals.

A dummy cell could be a simple as a bit of dowel with a drawing pin in each end, a slot sawed half way through lengthwise, and wires soldered to the ends of the pins (might have to be brass pins and not plated ones).

Another idea would be to solder directly onto the spring terminal and brass terminal inside the battery. For the tail-cap end you'd have to make sure you had a reasonable length of cable as it'll get coiled as you screw in the end.

Another idea from MTBR was little crocodile clips on the terminals!

To get the cable out of the torch, what I'd do would be to dremmel a slot down through the tail-cap threads into the meat of the battery tube. That way the cable can be easily removed, and plugs and the like don't get in the way.

I would steer clear of any cheap cables and sockets, the more expensive ones from BatterySpace and the like are justifiably so, the last thing you want is a dodgy power connection.

Cheers, Rich

Rich - may be you could sell a bundle of battery holder, pouch, cables and crocodile clips? Just a thought?

I'm interested:
ted'at'targetmedia'dot'net

I'm not so convinced on the crocodile clips concept myself 😆 but will certainly be offering holders and pouches.

I must admit I've gone off the idea of buying in things like cables, and selling them on, I'll quite possibly be stuck with a load of them unsold, which I want to avoid.

So, I won't be selling any kits ready to plug and play with torches, just some components for the DIYer.

Cheers, Rich

Rich, 11 outof 10 for effort my son!
I'm still up for a pair of holders and pouches, ( the 4 cells in parallel variety). I think the selling the idea on to Dealextreme is a good one, especially if you have a working prototype to send them. Their contacts in asia could probably reverse engineer it and knock up a thousand units in about 48 hours for peanuts!

Drillski
peternadin at btinternet dot com

Just a thought about bodging now guys.

If i remove the batery tube completely, and i remove therefore also teh clicky switch from the end, do i have to replace this with anything fancy, i.e. does it have any important circuitry in it, or is it just a locking and non locking switch, or does it contain the multi mode jazzy bits? If it is justa simple switch,could i replace it in the circuit with a another similar affair elsewhere in the circuit?

Drillski

Drillski, the switch is a simple basic latching on/off, although the 2 mode has 3 positions, direct, through a resistor, and open. The driver for the 5 mode torch is in the emitter pill.

You say remove the battery tube, but do you realise that the pill screws into one end of the tube, and the whole thing screws into the head of the torch?

This is why people favour cutting the tube down, as otherwise you have to cut some threads.

Some great info about modding and lots of photos of the internals [url= http://www.el34world.com/Misc/bike/BikesLights1.htm ]here[/url]

Cheers, Rich

Soooooooooooo, i could cut the battery tube off behind the emitter, put in a blanking plug, run in a lead from the battery through said plug that made contact with the positive contact on the emmiter and the shortened battery tube, with an inline switch built into the batery lead, like this one..

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4415

all it would mean would be that i would have to fully turn it on and off to cycle through the modes. Am i right?

That solution sounds as though it'd work, although it's a momentary off that you need to cycle through the different modes. Most switches do have a state where they are off but not fully latched, so should be OK.

Keep us posted how you get on, good to see ingenuity at work 🙂

Cheers, Rich

i'll have a battery pack, cable and pouch (maybe 2)

garycartwright@hotmail.com

cheers

Right, subsequent to the demise of the replacement battery tube I've decided to make an alternative.

There was quite a bit of interest in the idea of a nice simple 'dummy cell' concept for those wanting an external battery pack for the P7, and were happy to drill a hole in the side of their torch.

This will be a bit of a DIY solution, as you'll have to source your own cable, and either crimp or solder the ends, and of course drill your torch, but it should be a fairly simple solution which should be reliable and versatile.

[img] [/img]

That's the holder, and this is roughly how it'll go in a P7 (only with the wires meeting up of course!

[img] [/img]

Price will probably be under a tenner, but not really decided yet.

I've updated my [url= http://www.turboferret.co.uk/Bikelights/bikelights.php ]website[/url] and the ordering page will be up and running as soon as I've made a few pouches and cast a few holders - I'd rather people had to wait a bit to order, than wait to receive after paying!

My friendly rapid-prototyper is again providing amazing help, and I'd expect that I'd have the first dummy cells within a fortnight.

Cheers, Rich

Rich - so the advantage of the dummy cell over simply soldering the cables to the terminals in the torch is that you can remove it and use a single normal cell instead if you want to? Are there other advantages?

I would be the first to admit that it doesn't offer a huge number of advantages over soldering direct to the terminals.

However, I have found that unscrewing the emitter on some of the new P7's to be virtually impossible, so you may find that trying to solder to the positive terminal inside the battery tube is rather tricky.

Also, the tail cap will obviously rotate and coil up a wire soldered to it, but with some slack that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Depending on whether you drilled a hole in the side of the torch, or cut a slot down through the tail cap threads, you would most likely have to un-solder the connections from the dummy cell to remove it fully from the torch anyway, assuming you couldn't thread the other end of your power cable through your torch hole.

Clearly there are loads of solutions, it's just several people had expressed an interest in this idea, so I thought I'd give it a go.

It's not a commercial 'plug and play' option, but might be of interest to some folk.

Cheers, Rich

Thanks. I didn't mean to poo-poo the idea, but I did want make sure I wasn't missing a big problem with the "just solder it" route.

No worries jfeb 🙂

You did make a very valid point though, since soldering will still be a requirement with my solution.

I think the disassembly problem with the new P7's is a genuine issue though, getting the emitter module out, they can be a bit of a b@stard 😯

Cheers, Rich

Just like to register my interest in a battery holder, probably a 1S4P version. Though I hear you're entertaining the idea of making a 2 cell holder as well?

Have posted pics of P7 cut down PROTOTYPE mark1 test bodge for your info.

Total Weight is 420g for 4 18650 cells,which should give around 4 hours on max, which compares well with the Hope 10w HID which has only 2.75 hours run time by comparison, and visibly less output for sure. Obviously they are pretty cacky at the moment, and nead ALOT of tidying up in the next version.

Nice tidy leads from battery space are the next thing to be substituted and will use the inline switch they provide, with waterproof trail-tech connectors. They're very nice and only add a few grams. This will also give me the option to run a double light set if needed ( or just wanted!!!!) via a Y cable splitter.

Am also planning a nice little turned aluminium end plug via a friend who's a bit handy with a lathe and has just bust a few teeth so owes me a favour! This should tidy up the end and add a little finning for heat management.

http://peter76.fotoblog.co.uk/c1644214.html

Once TF's holders are available it will be much better.

Looking forward to seeing your battery holders mate, but no rush, just thanks for your enthusiasm and effort.

Drillski

Guys, quick update to say that I've been busy making lots of bits, and I'm ready to start taking orders.

[img] [/img]
4 x 18650 cell holders

[img] [/img]
2 x 18650 holders

[img] [/img]
single 18650 holders

[img] [/img]
pouches

Dummy cells will be available soon, the first mould didn't work out quite as I'd hoped, so it'll be a few days before I've got them sorted - 24 hour cure time on the silicon is a bit of a drag...

[url= http://www.turboferret.co.uk/bikelights/bikelights.php ]Turboferret[/url]

I might not be able to quite meet initial demand, but I've made a bit of stock, so hopefully orders won't take too long to be completed.

Cheers, Rich

Nice 3D modelling Rich. Whats it in ?
I modelled my P7 up with a view to doing exactly as your doing. A dummy battery bridging the poles & wire passing out through the centre of the P7 & running to a remote pack of 3 18650's in parallel.

I'd be interested in a dummy cell as mine never left the cad screen...!!!

PT

PT,

Everything is in SolidWorks, which has been invaluable!

I have a rapid prototpe of the cell, but need to make another attempt at the mould which was a bit fiddly, and the 2 halves weren't quite lining up properly.

Fingers crossed I'll manage a better version in the next day or so, and dummy cells can start flying off the production line.

By production line I mean this 🙂

[img] [/img]

which is where I moved production to when it got rather chilly in the garage. So far managed not to get too much resin on the furniture, but it's only a matter of time 😆

Cheers, Rich

Hi Interesting Thread

Count me in for one of the

4 x 18650 cell holders

details in profile

cheers

Rob

TF: Great job. Quick question from a thicko...... is it possible to just put 2 cells in the 4 cell holder and have it work?
Not sure if I want to get two more cells yet, but don't want to limit myself to two.
If this is the case I'll go for a 4 cell holder and a dummy.
ted:at:targetmedia:dot:net

Rob, and everyone else,

Please make orders via my website ordering page, as I have lots of interest from different areas, trying to keep up with interest on forums is too time consuming. Having all orders coming through one channel will ensure that everyone gets what they want, in roughly the order they are placed.

[b][url= http://www.turboferret.co.uk/bikelights/bikelights.php ]Turboferret[/url][/b]

Hope that's OK with everyone.

Ordered a 4-cell holder. Nice work, TF 🙂

Shark, if you ordered a holder which uses cells in parallel, then you wouldn't need to use a complete set.

A 1S4P (4 cells in parallel) would run fine with 1, 2 3 or 4 cells inserted.
A 2S2P (2 pairs of parallel cells in series) would run fine with 2 or 4 cells inserted, assuming you got the 2 cells in the correct slots.
A 4A1P (4 cells in series) would however require a full compliment of cells, as removing 1 will break the circuit.

Hope that makes sense!

Cheers, Rich

Rich. What are the benefits of running the batteries in series? Parallel = increased burn time right? I would imagine series therefore meant brighter but can the LED run brighter?

I am sure this has been covered before but I can't remember - sorry!

any idea when the dummy battery will be ready? - I'll certainly have a 2x 18650 pack and dummy battery

just ordered 4 cell and pouch .
Been watching this for a while , very nice work Turboferret . Very glad to see you found a way around the problem with torches being all different.
I like this version better anyway, easier for us numpty's to work out.

Thanks Simon

jfeb - you wouldn't want to wire your batteries in series to run a P7, but plenty of other light solutions require a different voltage. In general terms, 1 lithium cell will power 1 LED, so if you have a 2 LED light, you would need twice the voltage, a 4 LED light, quadruple the voltage etc. Obviously this isn't a hard and fast rule, and if you use a buck module you have a wider range of possible input voltages.

Regarding the dummy cells, I'd say about a week, hopefully, the current mould is tricky to line up accurately, and as the part is so small, any differences in the alignment of the halves is noticeable and the cylindrical part becomes somewhat disjointed. Hopefully a new mould with some more positive locating datums will solve this.

Cheers, Rich

Just a quick note to say that if anyone is after a triple holder, they'll be in production soon to make a complete range.

[img] [/img]

Dummy cells shouldn't be too far away either.

Quad cells will be moving onto a 2nd generation design shortly, not such a tight fit, and better quality.

I've given my [url= http://www.turboferret.co.uk ]website[/url] a quick revamp too.

Orders have been coming in steadily, which has been encouraging, and thankfully, everyone who has received a holder so far has been pleased, perhaps pleasantly surprised 🙂

Thanks for all the support, and any queries, drop me a line.

Cheers, Rich

You have not sent the CAD for this one yet turboferret!!

Might have made an assumption there 😮

I think that tinsy has revealed himself as one of the essential parties involved in the project, without whom you'd all have to put up with dodgy cardboard patterned parts 😆

The rapid prototyping for patterns gives superb results, assuming you can make your mould properly, which I think I can now 😀

Cheers, Rich

You look pretty mouldy to me... 🙂

Got the holder this morning - very quick!

For those of you thinking of buying, but waiting to see what the first ones are like, it's a nice, solid bit of kit.

The batteries are held in place tightly, and it's very compact. Soldered joints are shiny, and all those little slots and channels hold the wires nicely. Cosmetically, the finish is not exactly mass-produced glossy (as TF has already said), but who cares!

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what it's like to run, as I'm waiting on another two 18650s, and bought the 4S1P set up.

Can't wait to hook it up to my iBlaast 2 in a couple of days.

Regardless of how mouldy I look, if I've learned anything in the process, it's that it's worth spending longer getting a perfect mould, rather than cleaning up cast parts with a dremmel to remove imperfections due to air bubbles. I now have a fine coating of polyurethane shavings over everything in the garage from trimming 50 quad holders 😆

Cheers, Rich

Simon, glad you're happy with your holder 8)

As I've said, 2nd gen quads won't be such a tight fit, as I think they're overly tight currently, but overall finish will improve considerably.

Has been a steep learning curve, and has taken a little while to get there, but I'm very happy with my results now 🙂

As I've said on my website, I think these are the only 18650 holders available on the web 😯

Orders so far have come from most corners of the world - UK, USA, Sweden, Canada, Bulgaria, Australia, Italy, Slovenia, Norway, and France

Cheers, Rich

Hi rich
recievd my quad and pair holders and cases....
EXCELLENT!!!!
guys, if you're wondering, BUY ONE!!!!!

I cast the first 2nd gen quad holders last night, and I'm really happy with the result - they won't require any finishing with a dremmel any more

[img] [/img]

Someone requested a photo with some scale, so here are a few more

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

The 2nd gen quads are the same length as the twins and singles, which are 2mm longer than the 1st gen quads, as the batteries were a rather tight fit initially.

Triple holders will be available very soon too - the mould is half done, and the 2nd attempt at the dummy cell is part-way there too, no more problems with mis-alignment of the 2 halves of the mould now

I'll be making a complete kit suitable for the P7, consisting of a holder, pouch, dummy cell, cable and grommet for protecting the cable as it runs through the torch - I've got some cables on their way from Germany at the moment.

Cheers, Rich

sory If Im repeating an earlier post, but is P7 a brand or type of lamp? I have seen a light called a P7 made by Led Lenser is this the same one that you are talking about? Thanks

Budgie

Budgie, P7 is actually a type of LED emitter, or a Soul P7 to give it more of a full title. However, when used on here, it generally refers to the MTE P7 torch.

Good review [url= http://www.mtbbritain.co.uk/mountain_bike_lights_review_led.html ]here[/url] with links to Dealextreme for buying them.

Cheers, Rich

Right, quick update on a few products 🙂

Triple holders are pretty much ready to rock and roll, couple of pics below (click to embiggen)

[URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery105.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery104.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery103.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery102.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL]

That'll be in 11.1v and 3.7v flavours. This comes out of a 3 part mould, which takes a bit more cunningness than the other holders, which are all 2 part moulds. I need to make a jig to stop it compressing when you clamp the parts together, but it's 95% there, available for purchase very soon.

On the dummy cell front, we have our first fully working prototype

[URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery108.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL]

This one is using circular copper ends, but the production items will most likely use a copper rivet as suggested by someone on MTBR

I cut a slot in a P7 to see how it'd work all assembled, and I reckon it's a goer 😀 Several more shots below

[URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery109.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery112.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery115.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG] [/URL]

There are pros and cons to cutting a slot up from the bottom, rather than drilling a hole in the side.

Pros being that it's easier to get the cell in and out, getting the dummy cell stuck inside the battery tube would be a pain. Also, you can easily swap back to a single cell should you want, just be removing the 2 o-rings and sliding out the cable and dummy cell.

Cons are that the unit won't be quite as well sealed, as even if you plug the grommet after removing the cable, there will still be a little exposed slot between the grommet and the tail cap.

All in all, I'm quite pleased, although I need to improve my dremmeling 😀

[URL="http://turboferret.co.uk/photos/battery117.JPG"][IMG] [/IMG][/URL]

Hopefully have rivets in a few days to assemble a few more hopefully finished items.

Cheers, Rich

So - let me get this straight and sorry for covering old ground.

Get a P7 light for Deal Extreme, get a quad holder and a dummy from Rich, put it all together and bish, bash bosh Hope 4 beating lights for not much money and a little bit of effort.

What is the performance going to be like? In terms of run time and what batteries do i need in the quad holder? Oh and how much for the bits from Rich?

Thanks,

SC

4 x 18650 protected, from DX.

Battery life should be 4 hours on max, and the output from a p7 is more like 600lumens than the fanciful 900.