Any users?

Specifically the trousers, any good?
They look a little baggy and I'm guessing it'd make my gators pretty useless.

I've always used Gore/Event in the past, wondering if they'd be worth a try, the outdoor forums seem split in the typical crabby outdoor forum fashion.

I have a Paramo Velez jacket and it's great, good quality, very comfortable and light!

I have three jackets and the Cascada waterproof trousers. I experimented on the commute wearing my Velez waterproof and it far outperformed any eVent or Goretex jacket as far as breathability went-however the standard Velez is very warm unless its sub zero.
the good news is that they have bought out the Velez Adventure light which is thinner faced fabric and is suppsoed to be just as breathable but as it says lighter and just that bit cooler. I am seriously toying with splashing oiut the £180 they cost.
As for the trousers they are truly superb for walking in and very comfortable even when worn next to the skin. They do have ankle pooppers to cinch them in but they would not run clear of the chainrings in my opinion.
The real beauty of Paramo is its soft, quiet , ultra breathable (for true waterproof garment) but if you rip it no problem, stitch the outer reproof it and away you go. Paramo's customer service is also second to none one of my three quarter length jackets had a pooper missing inside the zip but I only found out 6 months after I had bought it-jacket went back and I giot a letter of apology and a brand new jacket and some reproofer within the week.
The Feuera windproof is only that from my experience in proper rain, as the seams are not sealed and it is only single layer face fabric rain pisses through it.
My analogy of Paramo wateerproofs are like a Buffalo Special Six shirt once you have had one in your life you will never be without one!

I love my Paramo stuff.

Don't know if things have changed, my Paramo trousers are 15 years old, I find them too warm for anything but winter use.

Thanks all, I've been reading there a little on the warm side.
Most of the reviews seemed to rave about them, bit of doubt set in due to the kit wars that appear on some of the outdoor forums – although they'd argue the toss between an Akto and a Terra Nova comp till hell froze.

Haha Suggs, I have a special 6, just thinking of replacing it after 10years.

Suggsey – Member
My analogy of Paramo wateerproofs are like a Buffalo Special Six shirt once you have had one in your life you will never be without one!

Thanks, that's just the sort of recommendation I needed. I've done 3 'Puffers in my Buffalo, but last year was too warm for it, so I wore a woolly jumper instead.

Now to look at Paramo. 🙂

Paramo works well if you run on the cool side, less good if you run hot. I use a Velez as a winter mountain bike top, but it needs to be around freezing or below. They have some new trousers out which are reckoned to be cut slimmer btw.

I used to wear montane P&P, paramo is better but is warm. dont see the trousers as something id wear cycling but for winter walking and canoeing theyre great

they're based here in the village I live in and sometimes have a returns / seconds / sample sale at the local school. I'll keep an eye out for the posters and pass any details on as and when…

While I'd agree that Paramo stuff does tend to be on the warm side of things it's still far more 'breathable' than just about anything else that is waterproof out there, and due to the way it works I tend to find that even though a sweat a bit more, it wicks the sweat away so well that I still feel comfortable and dry. This means that if I tend to wear it from about October through to March.

I've now had my Velez about 6 years or so, and it's one of my favourite bits of kit, and would happily recommend them.

If you use a Paramo jacket like any other waterproof, as part of a layering system, them you would get too got. I don't wear anything under it, save occasionally a base layer if it's below freezing, and I've never been too hot in it. The venting is very good, and you only need a wee blast of cold air on the thigh or ribs to make you feel much cooler. I agree that it can be too warm for the summer, but generally I think it's the best thing for the British climate.

This sounds a bit like the old Buffalo zealots revving up…. I have always found Buffalo too warm for anything other than sitting around on belays or climbing technical ground in very cold conditions (i.e. moving slowly).

When moving normally in Buffalo, I get too hot and sweaty, then too cold when I stop. This means I need to carry other kit for stops or for real rain which it cannot really cope with (despite the claims).

For those that have both, how does Paramo compare with Buffalo temp wise and how do you get on with the too hot/too cold vicious circle?

This sounds a bit like the old Buffalo zealots revving up

Paramaniacs I think they call them on outdoorsmagic.

I once bought a Montane Extreme smock, which is pile and pertex just like Buffalo. I knew straight away it was going to be far too hot for me so I sent it back before I ever wore it outside. I was right though, because my wife now has the same smock and the salopettes to match, and they are ok for her, which means they would be the same as sitting in the oven for me. That's the only comparison I can do, but there's no doubt in my mind that Paramo will be cooler than Buffalo. It's just not that thick. As I said, I don't usually wear anything under it. If I feel a bit cold, I walk faster. If I get a bit hot, I open the vents/zip/roll the sleeves up. At the end of the day, what really matters is do you feel comfortable? Even taking your hat off can make a difference to how warm or cold your whole body feels.

It's not for everyone though.

I've got a fair bit of Paramo including the trousers and it's the best waterproof kit around, and you don't fill up with sweat either!

The trousers come in loads of sizes for length and waist so best to try on.

Over the years I've had countless makes of outdoor clothing in all the different materials and Paramo is by far away the best. Yes the trousers are warm – no need to wear anything underneath even in winter, but they do the job superb. One question is why the hell don't the STW staff test Paramo when they do a jacket test, it'll out perform any of the usual stuff they have?

I agree the Buffalo Special 6 is way to warm for me to cycle in unless it is seriously into the big minus figures. I normally wear a Rab Generator when its freezing (and very often if its cold rain or snowing). This winter however I am going to try the Paramo out more often.
Paramo actually contacted me about 12 months ago regarding MTB'ing and kit that I wore for riding and I made specific mention re the need for a cooler running top, no doubt with a load of other respondees and as a result that is why they have bought out the Adventure Light Range.
I personally think that all the bike magazines have shied away from testing Paramo stuff as it would ruin advertising revenue from the likes of Gore as the truth would out about just how much more breatable Paramo is.

I too swear by Paramo for hillwalking, wouldn't dream of it for cycling though.
I have read some comments saying the trousers are too hot for anything but winter, I wear the cascada trousers all year round, they zip all the way down so you simply unzip as far as you want & the domes keep it all together, that is the benefit of the paramo system, its excellent venting capabilities.
If you are carrying the jacket in your rucksack it is bulky & heavy compared to pac-lite, but then again it is more waterproof than pac-lite.

I sometimes wear gaiters with them, but only if it's very muddy.

I have a cascada jacket and trousers, a velez jacket and a fuera windproof. As much as I obviously get on with paramo, it's much to warm for mtn biking in the UK (for me anyway). Even for winter mountaineering I'll wear the cascada jacket and trousers over virtually nothing and still be warm and dry.

Another reason I don't wear it and why it's unsuitable for mtn biking is fact that you can't wash it with normal detergents. During the winter my waterproofs get washed on a weekly basis, which I wouldn't want to do with my paramo gear.

Thanks all! looks like a winner.

I should have mentioned they'd be walking only use, I have a few trips planned through the winter, It'll no doubt drizzle throughout.

They be good for that, just don't sit down on anything wet. I have no experience of this, but apparently if you sit down in a pool of wetness in Paramo trousers, it soaks thru the layers of material. That's just what I've read.

Been to have a look at the Velez light smock today and the guy in the shop said it was great for walking but not good for biking while wearing a rucksac/camelbak as the rucksac straps caused it to let water in?

Anyone comment on this, as I quite like the look of it. The smock looks more like a buffalo jacket than a hard shell, is it really water proof?

For £190 ish I could get a very nice event / goretex jacket

I did read about the strap issue while researching before, discussed here >

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/3/UTN/33473/last/1/V/8/SP/

A lot of people comment on the trouser wetting out if knelt against a wet surface etc so I can only imagine shoulder straps would do the same, there seems to be a number of posters in that thread stating otherwise. But I'd also imagine most people carry a rucksack when out walking anyway…….

For riding I think I'd stick with a Gore/Event Shell tbh, the appeal of the trouser was the single layer and less faff taking on and off over muddy boots.

Have a look at Furtech too, same idea as Paramo, the guy behind it is an ex-Paramo employee, but the jackets are a slimmer cut.
Interesting point about possible leakage through pressure points, wonder how that would work out with a saddle?

Hi, my name's Tony, and I'm a Paramo zealot… 🙂

Over the past couple of years, I've transferred my allegiance from Goretex to Paramo. I'm not unduly bothered if the wet gets forced through the outer shell by pressure from my rucksack straps or by kneeling on wet ground for example, because I know the liner will then do its stuff and push the moisture back out again, and ultimately I'll remain warm and comfortable. As far as I'm concerned, this is far preferable to the boil-in-a-bag feeling I used to get from Paclite and XCR once the shell wetted-out. It's also much nicer (and quieter) to wear.

As other folks have said, it's taken a bit of time to get away from the base/mid/shell concept and trust in a base/shell, with a thermal layer chucked over the top if necessary for stops, but now I can't imagine using anything else.

As an aside, I've also given up on fancy sprung-back / mesh system rucksacks in favour of a basic Karrimor with a wicking padded back. OK, my back gets a tad more sweaty than it did with a Berghaus Freeflow for example, but quite simply the Karrimor is the most comfortable bag I've ever carried, a real just chuck-it-on-and-go piece of kit.

Suppose it'll be back to silk, wool, tweed, and hob-nailed boots next… 😆

[Richard Wilson]

I don't believe it

[/Richard Wilson]

I think Paramo should do test drives… That'd prove their mettle… I was 'convinced' by the Buffalo boys in a similar way. Lighter, less faff, wear nowt underneath, vent via the zips. Best thing since sliced bread. Yeah right.

Before spending yet another ~£200 on yet another waterproof, I'd need to be certain it worked. I'm certain GoreTex (and copies) works and I know its limitations. I still remember that first time out when it was new on the market. My mate in PU, me in fancy GoreTex thrashing up the Buachaille in Glen Coe. I was stopping every few hundred meters to check I was really dry and he was, well, the usual for PU…

I think we've forgotten just how bad PU and Neoprene were…

I have 2-3 friends both seriously into walking.
No.1 really rates the stuff and his brother is/was part of the Dartmoor Rescue Group. According to him they've all gone over to Paramo. Apart from the excellent waterproofing, they find continual wearing of heavy rucsacs on goretex actually speeds up membrane breakdown, especially on the shoulders. The paramo kit doesn't do that, and if it does loose it's waterproofness it is easy to re-proof with Nikwax.

No.2/3 are colleagues I work with in a school and both lead or are heavily involved in Ten Tours, mainly using Dartmoor in all weathers. One, a teacher, went on a training day with other teachers on the moor in torrential rain. Out of the ~ 12 people, 3 were using Paramo, the rest goretex. No Paramo's got wet, the rest were drenched!
My other colleague also helps and has done several training things on the moor too. She rates the kit, was out last weekend when a monsoon hit the north moor and was bone dry. She also really likes their trousers as she says you wear them as 'normal' walking trousers but when it rains it saves you having to put on overtrousers. No idea of types of paramo's discussed, just general observations.

I'd love a Paramo cag as my old cag is pretty much dead, but I do little walking so can't justify the expense. If that changes, I'll bite the bullet and go Paramo.
my tuppence!
cheers
Q

ps…. wore my Buffalo big face shirt yesterday for the first time, it was cool even in Devon! and no I wsn't too hot. Perhaps I run cool?
Q

I've got a Paramo Velez jacket and am totally sold on it. As regards some of the adverse comments about it being too warm – I'd say, first, that there's no comparison with pile/pertex. I've got a Montane Extreme which is great in horrible weather but way too warm in anything else. In my experience, there's no way that the insulation level of a paramo jacket is anything like as warm.

Second, although the Paramo is warmer than a thin goretex shell – I've never found the paramo to be too warm when it's actually raining. Admittedly, I'm talking about rain in the scottish hills, rather than summer showers in the south of france – but, again in my experience, if it's wet enough, it's cold enough. What I do often carry is a spare light windproof that I can sub for the waterproof if it's not raining and I'm getting too hot. But a windproof and a velez seems to cover all situations quite happily for me.

The downside for biking, rather than walking, use – is that washing with soap rather than detergent can be either a bit of a hassle or a bit expensive. Cycling gear tends to need washing that bit more frequently than walking gear. Then again, you should probably take the same care of a membrane or PU coated jacket as you do of a paramo.

The big plus for cycling applications is that you can take a spill on a paramo and not ruin the jacket's waterproofing. It's stitchable and patchable without wrecking the weatherproofness – whereas a gash in goretex or event is going to be a real headache.

I'm interested in Paramo, but what I'd like to know is:

On a typical day walking up a steep hill in heavy rain in a saturated (when the water has stopped beading after the first 10-15 minutes …) membraned waterproof jacket the inside will become wet through condensation -I do get fairly hot.

How does Paramo compare?

Gore-Tex etc. work brilliantly in cold, dry/powdery snow conditions, but that's not ideal for the UK.

Someone I met from Kendal Mountain Rescue (I think) told me they don't really like it because water comes through when you're kneeling/sitting.

I've no doubt that despite that it's probably still better on the whole than Goretex or the other membranes, but another thing that puts me off is bulk and weight when you're not wearing it. If it's cold and might be wet, I prefer to wear a windproof with a very packable eVent in my Camelbak if I need it. I don't think I'd want to wear Paramo by default as it's just not often cold enough round Brum, and I can't see how I'd even fit it in my pack.

I'd been thinking of sticking with Gore-Tex for trousers and Paramo for the jacket.

I think I'll check out the jackets in a shop.

I've been using it for twenty years now – and I still have that very first piece in regular use (a Scala jacket, now finally relegated to dog walking, but still working well). The range has become signficantly lighter in weight over the years, and my latest jacket is consequently very much cooler than that original Scala.

To answer the OP, the trousers are a touch baggy, but I've never found it a problem. I do – in very wet weather – use the Paramo short gaiter. Over the top of the boot (obviously)and then tucked under the trousers, it's just enough to shed water without being uncomfortable.

I've tried coating and membrane based systems as well – nothing is as comfortable and effective in the British climate as Paramo.

All of the above comments apply to use for hill walking / mountaineering. I've also used it for mountain biking – its okay, but I found that not to be its forte. This was mainly due to the cut being rather too loose – but then I prefer my cycle clothing on the snug side.