[Closed] Pushed from bike by walker...

Whatever the rights and wrongs of your alleged 'trespass', you were assaulted.

I'm afraid to say that in similar circumstances I'd have lamped the ignorant bastid.

Perhaps if you're not 6'2" and of suitably imposing stature then it quite possibly wouldn't have happened in the first place though. Bullies don't usually pick on bigger blokes.

Have you reported the assault to the police?

Aye, tricky to deal with this sort of thing if you are not into violence though.

There are two issues here, clearly.

Your reasons for riding the footpath are purely selfish, but it doesn't really seem to be relevant. He shouldn't have pushed you off regardless. 😐

Nail square on head there, SA.

Sadly...

What the sanity assassin said.

haha.... you got owned.

@sanity assassin.... you don't have to be big to get angry. throw your bike at them or kick him hard in the knees and ride off....

so you were on a narrow raised dedicated footpath and you tried to squeeze past 2 walkers, and one got arsey.

Why didn't you just hop off and walk past them and then hop back on again?

Yeah - on discussing in the pub later, my mates pointed out the 'assault' thing. At the end of the day, the rights and wrongs of my riding there don't give someone the permission to be a vigilante.

I really wouldn't bother wasting police time with it though - I wasn't injured in the slightest - I was just left feeling annoyed about the whole experience.

[i]so you were on a narrow raised dedicated footpath and you tried to squeeze past 2 walkers, and one got arsey.[/i]

As said in my post - it was wide enough for us to pass and that had already been proved by the person's friend who, by moving across, provided enough room for us to pass.

Maybe he recognise you from here and it a fellow STW out for revenge.

Hope he doesn't head up here.

alpin - Member
haha.... you got owned.

@sanity assassin.... you don't have to be big to get angry. throw your bike at them or kick him hard in the knees and ride off....

My comment was suggesting that if the OP was built like a brick 5hithouse then the assault is less likely to have taken place. The cowardly bastid that pushed him would have merely walked past and wished he had the b0ll0cks to assault someone his own size.

don't ride on a footpath you nobber 🙄

If you're on a footpath, just get off and let them go past.
Basic courtesy isn't it?

The guy was obviously a knob, but two wrongs etc.

I cant comment without more info/pic of width of said trail, how hard the push was etc TBH.

No excuse for assaulting you.

If you're on a footpath, just get off and let them go past.
Basic courtesy isn't it?

As I said, I WAS being courteous - I slowed almost to a stop and moved right over. The space was there but he chose to move across at the last moment to deliberately knock me off.

Whether the same would have happened had I stopped entirely we will never kow.

Had a similar incident yesterday, only difference been I was on a road between trails. We were riding side by side on a single track road, my friend on the left and I was sort of in the middle of the road. Two walkers coming towards me, when the one closest to me deliberately moved into the centre of the road, full eye contact made. She let out a hell of a scream when she collected my right elbow somewhere aroungd her right t1t......

Did you stop to kiss it better?

[i]She let out a hell of a scream when she collected my right elbow somewhere aroungd her right t1t...... [/i]

Excellent that'll help cyclist profiles.

Great PR there gingerbloke, keep up the good work 🙄

You were cycling on a footpath, on a Sunday morning (no one[b] ever [/b]goes walking on a Sunday morning, do they?).

Depends on your definition of courteous - I ride cheeky but choose my place and time, and stop and get off/push when I see someone coming.

You didn't have a right to be on that footpath. He did.

Because I had loads of time to get out of the way didn't I???
What I didn't say was she was probably only a couple of metres in front of me when she took a deliberate step to her right to try and force me over.....

genius, and people wonder why walkers give cyclists a hard time, muppet 🙄 mind you may'be it makes you feel big hitting women and I expect she was asking for it 😐

as for the walkers having to squeeze past, why should he? OK he shouldn't have pushed you, but you were on a FP FFS. Get off and walk if its narrow.

Gingerbloke, I sincerely hope the next time you try that one the person you ride into gives you a mountain bike enema.

yeah. blah blah blah.... but did you kiss it better?

It was a road FFS. I braked and tried to avoid but had no time!!!! Good job I wasn't a car. They are probably the same people who put logs and such across our favourite trails. I'm not trying to give us a bad name, if I was on an FP I would expect to be riding with a bit more caution and be ready to stop. I just wasn't ready for her movement. I didn't see it coming, Perhaps it will make me more aware in the future...

I'd be more prepared for dangers on a road than a bridleway or footpath.

And No I didn't kiss it better...You didn't see the size of her.

From experience people who frequent woodlands trust, are a bit odd, they think its there personal wood and hate bikes and kids, love signs telling you what to do etc, so that probably explains it, next time just take a picture of the offending chap, and report it to the police, pointless, but you may get a result, a chap in chester was knoccked off his bike by a militant walker, and had his arm broken on a sustrans path, the ambulance took 45 minutes to get to him as all the access points where locked.

Get off and walk and take up twice the space? Great idea.
Annoying ignorant bastards are out there and on here, and well...everywhere. Most of the time it's necessary to just suck it up. Sadly.

Get off and walk and take up twice the space? Great idea.
Annoying ignorant bastards are out there and on here, and well...everywhere. Most of the time it's necessary to just suck it up. Sadly.

God, Dave, life's just so UNFAIR isn't it?
Perhaps we could just move to the side of the (foot)path, smile and say hello?

About the annoying people, I know, but hopefully they'll grow up and learn that with freedom comes responsibility. 🙄

regardless of where you are its still assault.

getting off and pushing the bike would probably have taken up more room.

the guy was just being a nob.

i remember doing a downhill race over Rawtenstall way and some walkers were protesting at the track being closed off by walking their whole family up the track despite marshals and spectators telling them to move (some nicely some not so nice). they only stopped after mum got hit by a bike, if it had been on of their kids they would have been in hospital.

some people are just stupid

As others have said, you're not actually breaking a law by riding on a footpath, and even if you were it still wouldn't justify an assault.

Plus, the only reason he has a legal right to walk there is because loads of walkers trespassed to get the right...

If people look like being courteous, or there really isn't space to pass without both of us taking action then I'll pull right over and put an outside foot down. For the unsteady or large groups I'll make superhuman effort to get out of their way.

If however they give the stare that says 'you'll be getting off that bike to let us past', then i'll do just that. Making sure i'm on the outside and the angular parts of my bike are on the inside, and i'll be buggered if i'll give them any more space than they give me.

It's a two way street/path, some people have no interest in any form of compromise and see all other trail users as subservient to themselves.

**** em.

Regardless of any laws and rights, if someone deliberately pushes you off your bike, they automatically loose the moral high ground.

I'd have punched his lights out to enable him to regain his moral authority.

('Tis all very interesting this. I [i]hardly ever[/i] have any problems at all with "ignorant bastards", whether walking, riding, driving, on the train etc etc. My conclusion from personal observation is that they are [i]not[/i] everywhere at all, they are very rare indeed. As other people's experience is that they are everywhere it seems at least possible that there are some people who are less fortunate than me, and who are actually followed around by ignorant bastards all the time. It may of course be that these people are simply unlucky, and that it is inevitable that a random distribution of ignorant bastards in the world will result in some people (like me) hardly ever meeting one while other people can hardly move without encountering an ignorant bastard. The other possibility which we ought to examine is that there is some explanation for the distribution of ignorant bastards, such that ignorant bastards congregate around particular sorts of people, or are attracted by particular activities or attitudes. Research is urgently needed to establish what behaviour or mindsets attract ignorant bastards. Of course, some radical theorists suggest that that ignorant bastards are not a fixed phenomenon, but are governed by some variant of the laws of relativity. One day perhaps science will solve these mysteries.) 😉

[i]smile and say hello?[/i]
As said on the OP, I am always very polite and 99.9% of the people I meet are very friendly - in the 100+ times I have ridden in the area, I have only had something similar twice before - ironically each time when I was actualy on the cyclepaths bits.

Ohh, and the bridlepath that exists disapears into the river and through a house. It really is a mess where I live which is the annoying thing. Still, they are about to upgrade some more of the old train line to cyclepath so we can have about 10 miles of uninterupted flat straight cinder path covered in dog sh*t. Which is what cyclists want, right?

Why are you bringing the cycle/cinder path thing up? Not relevant at all.

I'm simply talking about common courtesy.
mastiles, I'm not trying to be deliberately provocative and I know that this idiot offended your sensibilities by pushing you, but:

You did say it was a narrow part of a raised boardwalk.
Would it really hurt that much to let them have their small, pointless 'victory' by just getting off and letting them past?
Might help to change the idiots perception of cyclists instead of reinforcing his negative stereotypes.
Does it really matter who's in the right/wrong?

Personally, I'd like to see the same access laws as Scotland used UK & GB wide, but judging from some of the comments on STW, I'm not sure we English are responsible enough.

Rusty - I know I was in the wrong for riding it and I thought I was doing the right (well as right as I could be when riding where I shouldn't) thing by slowing down and making it easy for them to pass. As it was a raised section, I couldn't move any further over and getting off wouldn't actually have made it any easier for them to pass. The other walker passed without problem (it wasn't that narrow - easliy wide enough for us to pass without touching). I was just annoyed that someone would take the 'law' into their own hands and act like that.

And I bring up the cyclepath subject purely because I am trying to make the point that the council provides cyclists with dedicated places to cycle, yet they abruptly end (on one occasion, it is an old train line - one one side of a road it is a cycleway, on the other a footpath - same trainline, just different side of the road) leaving us with nowhere to ride legally.

Go and tell the police as it was assault.
If you don't do anything and thus allow him to get away with it you will feel angry about it for years to come.
You can't go around pushing people off bikes.

mastiles, no worries, thanks for clarifying the situation.
I'm with you on the crap cyclelanes BTW.

Miketually's point about the walkers trespass is really interesting:
At the time of the Kinder Trespass, social mobility was increasing for the working classes and the majority of the public empathised with the aims of the trespassers. Everyone can see how walking in the country can be enjoyable, even if not for them personally.

I don't think a mass cycling trespass today would achieve the same thing - can you just imagine the anti cycling Tabloid headlines?
Cycling is still very much a minority activity and until this changes then the only real meaningful way that we can influence non-cyclists perceptions of us is by our behaviour out on the trails & roads.

A couple of really good posts Rusty Spanner, couldn't agree more.

[edit- and on the OP, nothing justifies violence in this situation either by the walker or in response]

Mastiles, I know exactly where you are talking about for obvious reasons.

The Ford has been complained about - its impassible even at the best of times and a bridge (although there is no duty to create one) would make a huge difference to the local network of trails. The council is failing in its duty to keep the trail safe for passage by its normal traffic (partly due to the fact its on the border between the district council and the NYCC, so neither side wants to take responsibility for it.

As far as I'm concerned, using that stretch of trail is not trespass, as there's a clear tradition within ROW law of being allowed to detour round to the nearest point when a trail is impassable.

At the same time - you should have battered **** out of the ignorant tosser, and I'm sure that we could round up a posse to help you.

Aye - perhaps they think they have done their duty by having a bridge further down (although of course we need to be on the footpath to get to it)...

It doesn't help with the very confusing signs either - some look to be clearly mrked as footpaths, when they are actually bridleways. No doubt that winds up the walkers when they think they are on a footpath when it is, in fact, a bridleway.

I guess you ride it too then? What bike are you on? I'll say hi if I spot you 🙂

(I am on Spesh Enduro S-Works (original 'Brain' model)

Also - the northshore stuff is getting pretty broken up now - it's been a while since I have ridden there and was surprised to find so many broken planks - including one section that I had to get off and walk otherwise the wheel would have disappeared down a hole!

[i]At the same time - you should have battered **** out of the ignorant tosser, and I'm sure that we could round up a posse to help you. [/i]

I can imagine it now "Attack of the keyboard warriors"

So did he actually physically push you or just move across the path towards you, giving you nowhere to go?

To the people who say "It's assault, go to the police!" I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how this would actually pan out at the police station. Mine guess would be -

"Hello officer I've been assaulted!"

'Stay calm sir, and explain what happened.'

"Well I was cycling along this footpath, and this person deliberately moved into my path and I end up falling off. That's assault!"

'Footpath you say?..'

"That's not the point I was assaulted!"

'Ok sir, what damage did this assailant do to you?'

"None, but you're missing the point here."

'And this person, did they threaten you?'

"Well not as such, but it wasn't very nice"

'not very nice.. Just getting all the sailent details down. Witnesses?'

"His wife"

'Do you know her?"

"No"

'Him?"

"No"

'Right. I think I’ve got all the details needed to take the appropriate action'

What restraint from the OP. If it would have been me that was pushed over i would have hurt them quite badly. But then i have a temper.
I blame the 'chatsworth' where i grew up- rules are if someone hurts you you hurt them x100 more then burn their car out.
perhaps i need anger management.
well done OP

Yes, bear in mind that cyclists always get a bashing in the press. The level of discriminatory rubbish that I have listened to is quite shocking. Comments from daytime TV presenters and comments from prominent people such as [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7168530.stm ]Mathew Parris and his decapitating cyclists "Joke" WTF!![/url] Basically painting all cyclists as aggressive and irresponsible, or just a bloody nuisance. (i'm all of those btw :lol:).

But seriously, negative press only encourages and condones the behaviour that puts cyclists lives at risk.

For years councils and politicians have been banging on about reducing motor vheicle reliance, yet they do very little about making riding a bike a safer better experience. It all comes down to what wins votes and what is economic.

For example: Why shouldn't the rules on countryside access be changed so that cyclists can use public footpaths?

Where I live, not many people use footpaths, but cyclists would. Let's move with the times eh!

If I was riding a footpath and someone took offence to me being on there and pushed me, I'd also leave it and move on without a word. Kind of caught with your hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

TBH I see walkers in the same way that I see Horses. Horse's can be spooked by a car or other rider(s) who have gone before me and then they suddenly 'flip' at the next one who comes along.

Coming across all keyboard warrior-like wont solve anyones problems.

Why shouldn't the rules on countryside access be changed so that cyclists can use public footpaths?

you can anyway, and usually no one bothers about it, except other vigilant MTBers of course!

various peeps in this thread seem to have challenged the legality/illegality of riding on footpaths (including SFB above me)

could someone please point me in the direction of the relevant docs etc regarding it as I am no a bit confused, the way I understood it was that it is illegal to ride on a 'footway' (ie: footpath next to road) and for that you can receive the fixed fines etc. but that cycling on a 'footpath' (ie in the country away from a road) was only illegal if local bylaws make it an offence...

I'm not calling anyone a liar, I'm just genuinely confused and want to know where I stand (or ride) with regards to this and would appreciate docs rather than more people like me who 'think' they know but who might not actually!

thanks guys!
Matt

The law says you can't tho!

I have been stopped on a private estate road, but that is classified as a public footpath. I was told to get off and walk after a very confrontational approach by a couple of guys that looked like Chips and Poncho. That was a decade ago. The law is the law, even when it's an ass!

I hear a lot of EvilZone members are keen ramblers.
Maybe it was one of them.

I'm just genuinely confused

that is the correct response, it makes no sense. Many bridleways are narrow singletrack, or even invisible, while many 'footpaths' are actually roads

Your 2nd paragraph is correct in England & Wales

It has absolutely nothing to do with him if you are riding on a footpath. He's not the landowner (presumably) and therefore has no say. This is a simple case of assault. As Ian says above it'd be hard to do anything about it though.

In similar news I'm glad to see that they've left the footpath open on Emmerdale farm. I was getting quite cross about that story. The argument shouldn't even have started.....errm, so the wife tells me anyway.

You shouldn't have been riding there.

He shouldn't have pushed you. At least he didn't punch you.

I understand you being annoyed-your 1st? humility just ignore it or report it.

No doubt the other guy who pushed you will lie to the cops if he has the guts to push you.

Just ignore him. I've never had a prob yet but I don't ride on non cycling routes-hop off the bike and he shouldn't push you.

You could knock his teeth out but then you get a criminal record so just ride it off. He probably has a small willy and blaming you for it.

Next time wave yours back at him? 😈

Yes, "Hand in the cookie jar, it was your own fault" comments are wrong! Assault is assault!

If the same logic were applied, what some are suggesting is that if someone trespasses on your property or trangresses any law, you have the right to thump them! Clearly total nonsense! That would be anarchy.

There is an incorrect assumption that everyone fully understands the law too.

Nobody has the right to take the law into their own hands - period!

Nobody has the right to use violence except to defend themselves.

Amedias, your interpretation is correct.
The relevent legislation links can be found here I think.
[url] http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php [/url]

It's worth also remembering that a Public Footpath is a right of way for pedestrians without predudice to other users, so just because it say's it's a public footpath, doesn't mean you don't have a seperate right or permission to be cycling there.

I'd like to see the reaction if a walker was run off a trail by a biker at one of the trail centres! Similar indignant outcry from the same posters i suspect. Hypocrisy? No not at all!

FWIW I think the OP showed incredible restraint not lamping the person that pushed him. NO NEED AT ALL! I don't think i'd have been so calm about it!

Section 16 of the Countryside and Rights of way act 2000.

[url] http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2000/en/ukpgaen_20000037_en_1 [/url]

[i]16. Section 2 gives people a right of entry onto access land (defined in section 1) for the purposes of open-air recreation, provided that they enter without breaking any wall, fence or gate, and that they do not contravene any of the restrictions set out in Schedule 2 or imposed under Chapter II. By virtue of subsection (3), the right does not apply where entry is prohibited in or under any other public legislation. Schedule 2 restricts activities and behaviour which may be undertaken in pursuance of the right of access. In particular, paragraph 1(a)-(c) excludes the use of any vehicle (including bicycles) or craft (on water), and horse-riding. Paragraph 1(d) provides that the commission of any criminal offence (which includes transgression of a byelaw) on access land will amount to a breach of the restrictions. Schedule 2 also includes specific restrictions for the control of dogs, including a requirement for dogs to be kept on short leads during the designated period, and in the vicinity of livestock. By virtue of section 2(4), people who break any of these restrictions will lose their right of access to land in the same ownership as that on which the breach occurred, for a period of 72 hours, and may be treated as trespassers by the owner of the land. Breach of a restriction will not in itself constitute a criminal offence, although some of the activities set out in Schedule 2 may constitute criminal offences under other legislation.[/i]

Which states that access to footpaths via cycle does not constitute a criminal offence, merely an act of trespass against the land owner.

MF I bet the pusher was not expecting you to not react, that was possibly the hardest option to take.

Top respect for keeping your cool.

Samuri, I'm believe you're correct, but that extract is not to the point.

mastiles_fanylion - maybe you shouldn't have been on the footpath, but frankly the guy deserved you to stand back up and punch him square in the face. It takes a lot of self control not to - I think you should take the moral high ground on this one.

I'm also 100 % behind Gingerbloke, if you are on a public road which you have just as much right to be on as the walker and they decide to step into your path, then they fully deserve any elbow/tit interface that may occur as a result.

I'm just shocked that this kind of thing happens in Harrogate.

Most of these passive aggressive threads could be avoided if people were more willing to share their opinions with those involved at the time of the incident.

I think you did well not to react,
cant beleive some people on here are pretty much saying it was o.k to push you off your bike just cos you were riding on a footpath, I take it it would've been o.k if they stabbed you as well?

some poeple on here need to get a grip, to many pc, know it all, holier than thou idiots are coming on here.

ChristoGinger - Member
cant beleive some people on here are pretty much saying it was o.k to assault someone just cos you got pushed you off your bike, I take it it would've been o.k for you to stab them as well?

some poeple on here need to get a grip, to many macho, violent, neanderthal idiots are coming on here.

Oh, and love this-

I'm just shocked that this kind of thing happens in Harrogate

(Pass me my quill Jeeves, I feel a robust letter of outrage to the Daily Mail coming on...)

Don't ride of footpaths, just don't.

crouch_potato my sarcasm was obviously lost on you. I am a big fan of Harrogate but lets face it most of the inhabitants are somewhat sheltered from the grim realities of modern life.

The point I was trying to make is that people are losing the ability to deal with confrontations or differences of opinion. These things are usually better dealt with at the time and forgotten about, rather than constantly replaying incidents in your head, allowing them to add to an increasing but unspoken frustration with the state of society, or indeed writing a strongly worded letter to the Daily Mail.

Sorry about that shandy, that was kind of the point I was making too. Sarcasm duly noted 🙂 .

I have been stopped on a private estate road, but that is classified as a public footpath. I was told to get off and walk after a very confrontational approach by a couple of guys that looked like Chips and Poncho. That was a decade ago. The law is the law, even when it's an ass!

Even if it's private land they can only ask you to leave their land and even then they can not assualt you except in self defence. Also they can't demand you leave by a specific route and any damage to you or your property would be claimable in the small claims court.

Had a farmer point a shotgun at me once on a clearly marked bridleway (in mid-Wales) so I reported it to the local plod and he told me the guy was always doing it. Eventually he did it to a group of walkers one of whom made a citizen's arrest! Turns out that the 10 metres between one gate on the bridleway and the next was actually over his land and wasn't technically a bridleway! The judge decided that the gap was permissible by anyone using the bridleway and the farmer got a big fine and his shotgun licence revoked!

Sometimes the law is not a complete ass!

MR Potato,

That too is a fair point, apart from the macho ones tho;-)

Chris

Am I correct in thinking there were cyclists amongs't the walkers during the 'mass tresspass'?
I seem to remember seeing a photo once.

So did he actually physically push you or just move across the path towards you, giving you nowhere to go?

TBH - I dn't think I would hav it in me to smash someones face in for that incident though.

It is interesting though that some people think it is okay to do what he did because I shouldn't have been riding there. If I had have ridden to his left instead of his right, I would have been on the river side of the trail and it drops away quite quickly down to the river bank. I wonder if he would have been deemed within his rights if I had have gone into the water and drowned?

And this is turning into a Smee thread. 🙄

No-one thinks (as far as I can see) that he was right to push you off, stab you, or drown you. But, user conflict is a fact of life and you appear to have been courting it. That doesn't make him shoving you around right, but it may have been predictable. 🙂

shame you didn't have time to 'panic grab' him to take him with you.

Would have to agree that riding footpath is cheeky, but NO excuse for barging you off, if he was that bothered a simple 'Do you mind letting me through, this is a footpath you know?' would have probably been enough to make his point.

Matt

You should of fell and rolled around like didier drogba, then watched their reaction.
Seriously sometimes it's better to take it on chin, even if you feel aggrieved. I think we can all have times when we have been wronged.
On a different line. I was in chamonix on a bike holiday in 2003 and coming down the descent. Came upon two french walkers (father and son), slowed down to stop for them. Suddenly the father pushes his son out of the way, then cries "allez allez" and frantically beckons me down and pats me on the back as i pass. why can't we all be friends.