A debate we have had before but I was thinking about this today -some folk say never go on the left even in stationary traffic

So those who say "never on the left" what do you do in this scenario?

Single lane each way road with traffic lights. ASL is marked. You come up behind a line of cars stationary at a red light. None are indicating. Do you go down the centre of the road to the ASL? If the lights change as you are riding down the white line what do you do to avoid getting stranded in the middle of the road?

Myself I go where there is most space – right or left and if riding down the centre line I usually cut back to the left 2 or 3 cars from the front. ( but not always)

I ain't intending to start an argument altho I know this is a can of worms. I am genuinely interested in what the "never on the left" folk would do.

As you do – where there is most space but prefer to go down the lh side obviously watching for cars cutting across the traffic and into the lane. If the queue is short I'll just join it.

Don't really like going down the outside, or the middle if two lane road as you're can be in the shit if the lights change.

Going up the inside is suicide.

i don't follow any rules as such, just make a decision on what i think is safest.

I don't think inside or the middle of the road is inherently more 'safe' than the other. Sometimes vehicles pull onto the opposite side of the road to skip past a queue and turn right, if cycling down the left you're exposed to vehicles turning left, or turning right from the other side of the road.

Main thing is tobe aware of the risks of each

Joxster – so what do you do in that scenario?

I agree with molgrips on this. 😉

Agree with Joxster. If in doubt wait. Too many people in the city getting squashed at the moment.

I rarely filter at all now unless the circumstances are exceptional.

Going up the inside is suicide.

That's a sweeping generalisation. You know nothing about my commute so why is it 'suicide'?

Wait in the line? Really? Do you regularly ride in the cities?

Several places I know that could be 5 mins to clear a set of lights – 2 or 3 cycles is not uncommon

I don't see the problem of "undertaking" a queue of stationary traffic, if there is room to do it without banging wing mirrors then I don't see the problem.

I wouldn't want to be stranded in the middle of the road when the lights change. Although if the queue is long enough, it takes a while for the cars further back to start moving as the lights go green so you normally have time to find a gap. I take this approach at queues with more than one lane going in the same direction. I filter through the middle and as traffic moves I move into the correct lane and back towards the edge of the road

Several places I know that could be 5 mins to clear a set of lights

If there is a long queue, filter to nearer the front in safety. When there is chance of getting squashed, wait in line from there.

I generally wait and move when the lights change. I'm in no rush to get squished by a car/truck/taxi and just because no one is indicating that doesn't mean that they won't turn left.

I only go slowly on the left for a very short while (up to traffic lights etc) when the traffic is stationary and I am not crossing a junction, and where it is unlikely that anybody is thinking of dropping off a passenger. When the traffic moves off, I always let the first car go past, as the driver may not have clocked me, before establishing my place in the lane.

But other than that, I whiz down the outside like a smug prat. As I have got thighs of oak I can outsprint any car setting off and get back over to the left, ready for my trackstand at the next lights.

I'd weigh up the likelihood of getting to the ASL before the lights change. Saw them change to red a few hundred metres away? Absolutely, you've got loads of time to get to the front. Been sat on red since they came into view? May be worth just slowing a touch and they might change and you can just go with the flow of the traffic.

If the lights did change when I was passing on the right I'd stay on the back of a car as it moved off and created a gap, move over to the left into primary position and back across to secondary again once suitable.

I go right-hand-side by preference, especially if there's one or two lines of stationary traffic and little coming the other way. If there's a decent gap and the traffic isn't going anywhere soon, I'll go down the left though.

Gary_M – Member
Going up the inside is suicide.

That's a sweeping generalisation. You know nothing about my commute so why is it 'suicide'?

How often do you check your left wing mirror? I'm guilty on not checking it enough or forgetting to when pulling away from lights.

you can never give a definitive answer for this really, do as the situation requires. personally I'd either wait if I was nearer to the front, or if I was a long way back go up the outside, pulling in as soon as the lights went to green. I tend not to go up the inside, I feel a bit trapped….

I know this thread is open for the never go left types (I blame Fatcha, etc.), but I'll dip in an oar.

I'm a pragmatist, but most of all I want to get where I'm going as safely as possible (while taking into account the inherent risks of riding a bike in traffic, etc.).

I'm still not convinced of the argument that motorists would expect something approaching from behind them on the offside – (1) in traffic they don't expect anything to pass them on any side and (2) their expectation is the cycles are on the left.

To that end, I choose my filtering lines carefully, and ride them slowly. My choices are also made on the basis of what I know of the relevant junction creating the queue.

My really fixed rule is never up the inside of buses, lorries, vans, minibuses, etc. and always assume no-one has seen me.

EDIT: one thing I've stopped doing is assuming that, just because there is an ASL up ahead, I *must* get to it (in the same way that drivers *must* overtake cyclists). If I can't (narrow lanes, my other rules, etc.) I just take up a spot in the queue, sitting in the middle of the lane to prevent any idiots parking alongside me.

It varies with the conditions doesn't it. I much prefer to pass on the right, and I'd pretty much never go left if there was a barrier. I stay well clear of the inside of an HGV (and that changes depending on which way it's going to turn) as a basic survival rule.

Car drivers hate it when you pass them and they then (feel they) have to pass you again, so I'll often queue with the cars for a few seconds just to show willing…

How often do you check your left wing mirror? I'm guilty on not checking it enough or forgetting to when pulling away from lights.

Well if you ride around expecting drivers to have seen you then you're right about the suicide bit. If I filter and if the lights change before I stop in a safe position then I can accelerate so I'm not at the side of a car. I don't blindly ride alongside cars thinking that if they're not indicating then they won't turn.

But I know the sequence of lights on my commute so know when they are likely to change so it's certainly not 'suicide'.

>Too many people in the city getting squashed at the moment.

I see crazy cyclists daily who seem quite happy to cycle in a narrow gap between London buses and the kerb. Nutters!

If you 'know' the lights ride the centre and cut back in time, if you don't then sit in and take the queue until you 'get' the timing.
Nowhere's important enough to get to that justifies the risk of being squidged by a large vehicle with limited kerb side visibility.

see, the survivors are the pragmatic realists.

When we have had this debate before people have dogmatically said never on the left and I just wondered how they avoided getting caught in the middle of the road as the lights change.

It seems most folk do similar to me – weigh up each situation as it comes and decide accordingly.

I'm a sodding nightmare I try to keep left but sometimes there is not room and occasionally cars even pullover to block me. So I go left to middle frequently sticking my bike in the middle to block the acceleration of cars is not uncommon. I do stop at lights, but if I spot them in advance I jump onto the pavement cycle round them then hop back onto the road.

down the left safer that being in the middle IMHO but NOT for vans or trucks or buses then I just wait. The roads I cycle the middle means wrong side of the road

Hilldodger – you would really sit in lines of traffic? Do you regularly cycle in town?

Nowhere's important enough to get to that justifies the risk of being squidged by a large vehicle with limited kerb side visibility

There are a lot of drama queens on this forum. I don't ride down the side of trucks, buses, etc, I filter on the left when I know it's asfe to do so, as do many other cyclists who have good raod craft and are experienced commuters.

I some situations it's dangerous, but that's some not all.

Hilldodger – you would really sit in lines of traffic?

Yes, as I said – in conditons I was unfamilar with.
Once I'd got the sequence/timing of a set of lights I'd be confident of centre lane/cut back tactics

Do you regularly cycle in town?

No, a city 😉

Used to commute SW London to E london for 10 years or so and then lived/worked in more central London for another 15 years as a daily cyclist – never knocked off, never road raged, so I'm happy my system works for me…..

I also agree that there is nothing wrong with just sitting in the queue. You don't have to overtake – as has also been said, we spend a lot of time cursing drivers because they just assume that they must get past, so we shouldn't fall into same lazy assumption.

As for the OP – visibility is number one really, so to the right nearly always. If the lights are about to change you should be making eye contact with the driver behind, and get in front of him straight away – then move to the left if space allows.

I use the centre 90% of the time. If the lights change, then I do what the drivers do – accelerate. There's always a lag between one car pulling away and the next, and I just slot into that and sprint. Most of the time, I have better reactions than the drivers, so its not too much hassle.

If there's a car near the front of the queue indicating right, I'll duck inside behind it, as getting stuck along side whilst it's turning right ain't so fun.

Left hand side if plenty of room and no parked cars to get jammed up against otherwise right hand side. I can usuall see far enough down the road to be able to slot in between cars as they move off. Can out accelerate most "in traffic" cars over the first 10m which would allow me to slot back into my usual road position.

I would weigh up each situation as it arises.

If there are only a few cars and I have seen the lights just change, then I might make the decision to use the middle of the road.

I will undertake depending on the circumstances, but stop doing so as soon as the traffic lights change – that way the person I have just gone past can clearly see me & there is no risk of me carrying on up the inside of someone who is due to turn but isn't indicating and will not have seen me.
If the traffic isn't moving, there's no chance whatsoever of being hit but it does require you to position yourself such that the person you have just passed can see you and you don't start undertaking something as it begins to move off, particularly as you approach a turn.

And if there is any doubt in my mind, then I will sit & wait. It's not worth the risk.

Its all about planning and observation.

I always go left, never right. But only if the traffic is stopped, I have observed the lights change and I have enough time, and never go on the inside of a bus, truck, large van, vehicle indicating left etc. And always take it slowly and check for passenger seat stirrings. And don't do it at all beside railings.

Drivers never look for bikes on the left OR the right so thats a spurious argument.

If you go right, you have to deal with oncoming traffic as well as your traffic if the lights change unexpectedly.

I'm still alive and ride in town a lot.

I would also add that you are safer if cars can see you. And in the ASL zone thingy I plonk myself right in the middle, so they can ALL see me.

Then other thing I dislike about the LHS is that's where all the road crap ends up 😕

I can’t really see how filtering down the centre is any safer than filtering down centre. If I go down the left and the lights change I do the same as you, accelerate and take my space in the traffic. Both are fine in my book if done safely.

Quite – number one major error that most cyclists make is riding in the gutter. That isn't even part of the road as far as I'm concerned. If you want to ride on the road then go ahead and ride on the road, don't meekly beg to use the crappy bit that no-one else is driving on.

I can’t really see how filtering down the centre is any safer than filtering down centre

More likely to meet parked cars, skips, bus stops, pedestians 'stepping out' on the LHS ??

If there is room to go right, I'll always go right.

If there is no room right, and there is left, and I'm fairly sure I can be out into the clear before anyone has even thought of lifting their clutch, I'll go left.

I often shoot down the middle of two lanes of traffic on a dual carriageway, so I can carry speed through once the lights go green, rather than wait hours for dozy motorists to realise the lights have changed. You get the odd moron make a point by booting it to undertake you before I can move over left again, but they're rare and you can see/hear them coming. You often just breeze past them again 200 yards down the road anyway.

i ride down the middle on my own. If im with other riders then i generally go down the left or wait in the queue as i know i can get up to 30mph on my fixie if i have to for a short while. The people i ride with on the road simply cant do that.

Ive only once had a problem doing this when a articulated lorry wanted to make a U turn and didnt signal till he started turning at which point he saw me and got told to use his indicators earlier.