[Closed] SemiOT: Tell me about cargo bikes vs trailers for kid + grocery duties

I've got the xtracycle conversion on an old Clockwork Orange.
It's great. I love having a dedicated bike for transporting stuff.

I use it for the school run and for doing post office, tip, co-op runs.

The only problem for me is I have to carry it up/down 30 steps for every ride 🙁
They weigh a fair bit.

A friend has the Big Dummy with Stokemonkey motor in it. It's even more great, but I can't lift the thing, so it's a no-go for me.

The Kona Ute rides a bit smoother and stiffer than my frankenbike, but I don't like the pannier style as much, and the rear platform is higher off the ground, which I didn't like for carrying 2 kids (4yo and 8yo now).

I've spent a few months with an xtracycle and have found it to be perfect for day to day use - I've fitted a bike seat to the rear rack (GMG classic) and could fit another if needed. freeloader bags are very adaptable and easily accommodate shopping, recycling or whatever you want. As a child carrier it seems ideal as it the child is up with you, but not hanging off your seatpost. I suppose the downside to an xtracycle or other longtail is that they take up more space than a normal bke, but on balance I felt that was better than a trailer which would also need storing etc.

Both the Ute and Transport look good if you don't want the expense of a Big Dummy. Only the latter struck me as an all round load carrier, which is why I'm currently building a Big Dummy (I'll sell the xtracycle ;-))

You might want to look at:

http://www.reallyusefulbikes.co.uk/ (Rob)

http://www.practicalcycles.com/ (Zaynan)

I'd also recommend looking at the Yuba Mundo (at both), Workcycles at the former or Dutch ID at the latter.

thanks for the tips. I have to say I prefer the idea of a complete bike rather than the xtracycle add-on, but everything I read about the xtracycle is overwhelmingly positive. As I understand it the Big Dummy is basically an xtracycle fully welded into a Surly frame. Cost is probably going to win out (as it often does) in determining my choice. I've seen some good offers on 2010 Utes.

My gut tells me a trailer is probably to much hassle to setup to use regularly.

Yes, cost is definitely the buggeration factor. Cheapest big dummy frames in europe work out about £750 and you still need a longtail kit for the freeloaders and racks, which is another £225, so that's pretty much a grand spent without wheels and all the other essentials.

Freeradicalise (xtracycle) a bike for £399 + donor bike is the cheapest option by far, although I've seen some very good prices on the Ute, which would make it a quite attractive.

If you are reasonably flush, bikefix (london) had a pre-built (18") big dummy with alfine chainset available reasonably recently. It might still be about. That worked out about £1600 with the longtail kit, which is dangerously close to cost price territory to my eye.

If you're passing cumbria at all, you'd be welcome to have a tootle on my xtracycle.

I can't comment on child carrying but I currently have a Ute and would favour it every time over a cargo trailer (I have a bob-style Edinburgh Bike Coop trailer).

Prior to the Ute I used to do shopping runs with the trailer - weeks worth of stuff at a time. Its shape means fragile stuff tends to die as it gets stuffed in corners etc and actually you are pretty limited at soon as you start to buy big packs of anything. Taking it on and off is, as mentioned, a pain!

On the other hand I have rarely encountered a load that the Ute cannot shift. I agree with the comments above regarding the panniers being a bit silly but it simple required a little bit more ingenuity. The ute gets ridden to work pretty regularly and does the weekly sainsbogs shop (two large reusable bags usually plus very big stuff, juice, bog roll, strapped onto the deck)

I do alot of other load carrying as well as I don't have a car. Loads that I have recently carried include:

- 6 foot xmas tree (this got some funny looks from the man I bought it from: [i]"would you like me to help you load this onto your car sir...?"[/i]
- full size lawyer (he's a big 'un)
- microwave, hoover and BIG suitcase (all in one go)
- another big suitcase
- all my gear required to support BigDummy at Hit the North (this included two full size folding dining chairs)
- pretty girl back from pub
- commuting bike with irreparable puncture (at least twice)

It rides really well laden and I've done some reasonable distances on it. It's not done much off-road except a couple of laps of the Boggart Hole Clough CX course.

If you're anywhere near Manchester you're more than welcome to have a gander and a test ride. Mine came from Eddie McGrath cycles in Urmston.

This is the Ute at Hit the North (It didn't bring the Gazebo but the chairs are in evidence)
[img] [/img]

I'm gonna get a ute, this could be my do everything bike, shopping, dh, taking kids to school, riding to and fro work, xc, fixing leaks in the student houses, am, going to the tip..

Handsome dog, what year is yours and did it come with panniers both sides as it seems a bit confusing..

[img] [/img]

I could happily own a whole garage full of different cargo-bikes - you start off by thinking that there aren't many choices, but quickly realise that there are alot of colours in the cargo-bike spectrum ...

KCR - nice Bakfiets, I bet the little one loves it.

Here's my current xtracycle:

[img] [/img]

I've since swapped the handlebars, saddle and dropped the seatpost to a less vertigo inducing height. The frame's just big enough for me - I'm over 6 foot. The Big Dummy's a 20" which should be more sensible.

Toys,

Mine is a 2009 bought on C2W. It didn't (probably still doesn't) come with two panniers which I didn't find out in time to put the other one on the C2W bill!

I forked out the 75 quid or so for the other one as it isn't all that much use without it.

I think I may well convert my SS MTB to an Xtracycle, though I admit that having seem Handsomedog's Ute several times in the flesh with all sorts of useful stuff attached to it, I can certainly recommend one. His brother has a Big Dummy, though I've only ever seen that pictorally.

SSB_UK - let me know when you're selling your Xtracycle. Might be perfect timing for me to buy one... (I wonder if I can make an Isofix attachment for the nipper's car seat...)

Its available now(ish) - I'll get my bits and bobs removed by domestic management if there are two conspicuously long bicycles in the garage when the Big Dummy lands!

Isofix is just a couple of metal hoops at a specific distance apart - although you'd want to make sure it was 110% secure (precious cargo an all).

SSB-UK - drop me a line (email in addy) to let me know more. Cheers, Tom.

I think I may well convert my SS MTB to an Xtracycle, though I admit that having seem Handsomedog's Ute several times in the flesh with all sorts of useful stuff attached to it, I can certainly recommend one. His brother has a Big Dummy, though I've only ever seen that pictorally.

Big Dummy's Big Dummy can be viewed on his Flickr page [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/big-dummy-raynes-park/sets/72157605772907273/ ]at this location[/url]. A much more versatile bike but IMHO at far too high a price.

I've used a trailer for kid+shopping. It's pretty good really, although you can't stack that much in it and get the kid in it at the same time. Last time out was lil Grips, two large bags of shopping and a strimmer.

The advantage is of course that you can use your existing bike(s) to tow, and do stuff like ride somewhere, convert the trailer into a pushchair and wander about shopping or whatever, then ride home.

Steps are a bit of a pain tho since you need to find a way of dragging the thing up them. Sometimes you have to unhitch.

It is versatile tho. We are planning a ride with my sister's family, where there 4yo and 10mo will go in the trailer and lil Grips 18mo will go on their normal bike rear seat.

The logical step forward is clearly to buy a cargo bike and a trailer.... 😀

So anyone know where to get the big kona ute bags who has stock?

Give Zaynan at Practical Cycles a call> http://www.practicalcycles.com/ - he should be able to get them in.

SSB_UK - Member

Give Zaynan at Practical Cycles a call> http://www.practicalcycles.com/ - he should be able to get them in.

Yeah done that, he wasn't..

get a trailer that you can also go round the shops with self scanning...

then pay wheel outside and hook up and ride off...

some waitrose stores let you borrow a trailer like this based on the Bikehod trailer..

http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/shopping.html

http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/index.html

as for cargo bikes, rode an 8Freight once - rides well but a bike bike to store....

Kids won't go in that Waitrose trailer tho 🙂

Handsomedog - Member

The logical step forward is clearly to buy a cargo bike and a trailer....

I'll be honest I was/am thinking this myself..

Bought a Ute through cycle to work and have just modified the rear deck to carry our two girls (4 & 7) on the school run. The wee one sits on a GMG classic while the older one sits on a padded mat with stoker bar and BMX stunt pegs. They love it but the high deck does make starting / stopping quite tricky. Best to use a wall / fence for stability when climbing on or off. Fine once moving tho'.

Great fun and will pay for itself in a year. Less hassle than a trailer as I can commute at near normal speed and tackle paths, kerbs, bollards without a second thought.

Glasgow area, if you want a look.

PS unused (still in packet) Kona Ute Large pannier for sale, can't fit it with all the kiddie gubbins bolted on.

Downshep I'll have that off ya right away. will pay now toys19@hotmail.com

I think that the new 2011 Ute looks great. Quite tempted when it comes to new commute bike time.

Now comes with 2 panniers now and they've raised the sides a bit and stiffened the bottom panels. The front brake now also has a bigger disc.

[url= http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=ute ]2011 Ute[/url]

Rear mudguard too, a definite improvement by the look of it.

Shame the bags aren't orange anymore, they look rubbish in brown

Edit: rear disc too y the look of it:
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2010 also has rear disc and mudguards.

does anyone know downsheps contact details? I want that bag baby..

Here's my 2010 Ute...

[img] [/img]

More close up pics [url= http://picasaweb.google.com/orena45/KonaUTE ]HERE[/url]

😀

This hard bodied trailer was great for us for kids and shopping.

[img] [/img]
Sold as Phillips Cleveland, but have seen them with other branding.

Used a trailer for kids + shopping as well. You can only get a couple of bags if the kids are in but loads if they aren't. Possibly more even than on the xtra but i guess it depends on the panniers.

£750 for the Bigdummy frame?

You could buy a proper ute for that much

hey.. you should definitely check out the Yuba Mundo.... I'm going to be getting one of them pretty soon. They look just right for my two kids, and shopping etc, and can take alot of weight.

£450 for the frame is pretty good price too!

I'll post up some pics and views when i have it.

On a serious note, how well do the kickstands work? They're always a contentious issue in the touring world.

£750 for the Bigdummy frame?

You could buy a proper ute for that much

No denying it. Vive la difference, eh? 😆

Anyone used a bakfiets? Very popular in the netherlands now
[img] [/img]

http://www.practicalcycles.com/userimages/procart7.htm

@ Toys 19

YGM.

I find the Kickstand on the 09 Ute to be pretty poor, basically the main weakness of the bike. You get used to ensuring that the bags are properly loaded and that you always check it isn't going to fall over when you park it though so not a huge issue.

I tend to load and unload it from the back as well so I can support the bike with my legs. I've not dropped it in a long time.

@Downshep. Have replied. Do you have any pics of your ute with kids on board?

Many pics of my Yuba Mundo at http://images.google.com/images?q=mundo+miketually+site:flickr.com

Mine's a version 2, so only 6-speed and also V-brake only. I bought it from Zaynan at Practical Cycles on Cyclescheme and he was really helpful. I got the bike, an extra front rack, a Go Getter bag, a double kickstand, plus a couple of straps and innertubes for £999.99 🙂

If buying now, I'd go for the V3 frame, triple chainset, 2 Go Getter bags and the wider kickstand. I'd also probably get the deck.

Mine's my daily commuter and gets used for some load carrying too:

[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3572636303_c894276792.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3572636303_c894276792.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_mc/3572636303/ ]carrying a full bike plus camping kit[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/mike_mc/ ]miketually[/url], on Flickr. I'd intended to ride all the way to Dalby, but shiils, 6-speed and a load don't mix.

[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4746226404_a616ec575e.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4746226404_a616ec575e.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_mc/4746226404/ ]Towing my Inbred home from work[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/mike_mc/ ]miketually[/url], on Flickr. I think the Mundo got a puncture, so I rode in on the MTB the next day with repair stuff.

[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4631138897_1792ecbda5.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4631138897_1792ecbda5.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_mc/4631138897/ ]Two 150 litre bags of compost on Yuba Mundo[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/mike_mc/ ]miketually[/url], on Flickr.

[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4931876915_f6aed5879c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4931876915_f6aed5879c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_mc/4931876915/ ]You can get a bike in a box on the back[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/mike_mc/ ]miketually[/url], on Flickr. I ended up just pushing home though, as I couldn't get it balanced right. I now think I could, with two more straps.

[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3563/3583000368_9722abc72c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3563/3583000368_9722abc72c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_mc/3583000368/ ]A weeks shopping for a family of four[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/mike_mc/ ]miketually[/url], on Flickr. And I towed a borrowed bike back to its rightful owner on the way there.

[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3627/3529086840_15240a8f0f.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3627/3529086840_15240a8f0f.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_mc/3529086840/ ]TheGo Getter bag is quite big[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/mike_mc/ ]miketually[/url], on Flickr.

There's also some video somewhere of me riding the Mundo with a photographer on the back while he photographs two girls riding behind us.

Edit: found it!

That's a great advert for the Yuba. I was eyeing up one of those Steco front racks, but my headtube didn't have enough space in the right places. Do you use it much?

£999.99? Shame you couldn't use [b][i]ALL[/b][/i] the £1000 allowance, eh? 😆

The front rack takes my bag for getting to/from work every day - a 20L Alpkit Gourdon.

It was a bit over £1000 but Zaynan's a very nice man 🙂

My only criticism of the Mundo is that a lot of the finishing kit is quite cheap. Having said that, it's been my commuter for 18 months or so now and is still going strong with nothing but a tyre and tube being replaced.

Thanks for that - I'll have to measure the BD head tube. It looks to be the best rack for the job and believe me, I've looked at a few in the last few weeks!

Right, now I want a Ute to go with my trailer so I can take the kid/s and loads of shopping too 🙂 Great way to cycle tour I think 🙂

SSB_UK - have sent you an email re Xtracycle. Busy day, so will respond properly later. Tom.

Mike, I want that front rack - what is it?

Right, now I want a Ute to go with my trailer so I can take the kid/s and loads of shopping too Great way to cycle tour I think

This is something I am going to try out later...will post pics if possible!

I'm touring on mine next spring. Probably only local to Cheshire, don't want to overdo it.

Mike, I want that front rack - what is it?

It's the cheaper one of the two that Practical Cycles sell.

I'm touring on mine next spring. Probably only local to Cheshire, don't want to overdo it.

Judging by the amount of stuff you carry, Ed, that's about as far as anyone can reasonably hope to get..!

It only shows up on their Yuba page I think.

http://www.practicalcycles.com/userimages/procart17.htm

Worth checking with Zaynan regarding the placement of the u-bolts (he's got some measurements handy). I couldn't have fitted it to my current frame(s) but it might yet be a possibility for the BD.

get an 8 Freight

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

I see a guy in the city occasionally on one in a pinstripe suit and all he ever seems to carry is a briefcase.... odd

you can hire one from Bikefix

Or the Circe Helios - you can do all sorts with those, either use a large rack or outfit it as a tandem. Uses 20" wheels from memory and they even do a Rohloff version (donor card accepted).

Judging by the amount of stuff you carry, Ed, that's about as far as anyone can reasonably hope to get..!

I like to travel in comfort!

I have a business card in my desk at home for a guy who imports crazy Danish cargo bikes...will try and dig it out later. Similar to the one TJ posted but with a flat front desk to allow you cart big boxes and such.

crazy danish / other countries stuff...

Velorution in london has a good selection of cargo bikes:

http://www.velorution.biz/shop/category/bikes/kemper/

http://www.velorution.biz/shop/category/bikes/christiana/

http://www.velorution.biz/shop/category/bikes/family-bikes/

I have a business card in my desk at home for a guy who imports crazy Danish cargo bikes...will try and dig it out later. Similar to the one TJ posted but with a flat front desk to allow you cart big boxes and such.

Sounds like a Bullitt

http://www.larryvsharry.com/english/

Don't forget to add Gazelle - the Cabby is much like the Bakfiets posted above:

http://www.gazellebicycles.co.uk/?g=30

Sounds like a Bullitt

Yeah that's the one!

Who would have thought that a thread on cargo bikes would have got so complicated... 😆

Boys and Girls 2010 ute for 525 inc delivery [url= http://www.singletrackbikes.co.uk/product/4739/Kona_Ute_2010 ]here![/url] Bargonious. Mine was dispatched today.

Finally gotround to getting the pictures of my Ute off my phone:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

There's a recurring theme with these cargo bikes ... other bikes just can't resist trying to get jiggy with them.

My ute turned up today at work, just building it up now!!

Hey - look forward to seeing some outlandish cargo carrying pics!

Mine arrived at work on fri so I built it up and carried the racer home with the front wheel in the pannier as above, didn't get any pics though.

Today I went off to do some maintainence on the student houses, 2.4 metre lengths of planed timber along the deck and tied on the frame, and my toolbox (standard dewalt softish bag 18 inch long) on the deck too. V happy.

Good job it was planed wood - you don't want splinters in your, erm, 'top tube' 😀

Right I'm happy with my Ute but have a couple of questions:

1. where can I get another big orange bag? They seem to be out of stock.

2. to downshep with the GMG classic was this easy to fit? And how about the pegs and stoker bar? What exactly did you use for the pegs and how do they mount? What part of your setup is preventing the second bag?

1. They are OOS in the UK, hence Toys 19 biting my hand off when I was selling mine.

2. The GMG classic can fit via it's spring clip system to a GMG Unimontage bracket, bolted to the deck / frame. I didn't like the lack of security in that as the bike will lie outside the local shops etc, so I didn't use the bracket. I just drilled out the spring clip rivets and bolted the seat directly onto the deck / frame. This is the rearmost seat. The forward seat, for the older child is a rolled up yoga mat. Stoker bars are bolted to the seatpost via a shimmed stem. BMX stunt pegs are bolted onto the lower mount of a rack. simpes! Will post pics once the weather improves.

Heres is my dummy, I love it to pieces, they are the best thing sliced bread if you have kids, mine gets used off road as well as on the tarmac, obviously within reason though.

The accessories are expensive and to be honest if you know a decent fabricator you could easily have the freeloaders etc made.

I also pull a trailer with mine ocassionaly.

I got mine from Practical Cycles near Blackpool, they also carry Yuba, Bakfiets etc. Zaynan is a really good guy anf very helpfull.

http://www.practicalcycles.com/ /p>

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Tidy!

[img] [/img]

I have to say I am still thrilled to bits with my Ute, regularly shop on it, it was great in the snow. We are currently carless as the 406 died on xmas eve, and I have been doing everything on the ute, had to hire a car last week as I was going to a meeting that was a logn way away from a train station (any way at 29 quid for the day it was cheaper then the train).

I take my eldest to school on a toptube saddle every day, she loves the comments from all the other kids.

The Ute is the best option I reckon as you can get them for 5-600 notes new if you hunt around. mine was 525 delivered.. I just thought less bother than fitting and extracycle to a donor bike and way cheaper than the surly/yuba!

Although if I was minted I might get the yuba or the surly, but that's like saying if I won the lottery I'd buy a roller, they are ridiculously overpriced for basically utility bikes, its not like they have any exotic materials or parts..

The price is mainly down to small production runs I'd guess, so the frame's expensive to make and they can't buy the parts in bulk.

My Mundo was on the Bike2Work scheme, so it cost me £50 a month for a year. It's got me to work and back pretty much every day since (almost two years) for nothing more than one new tyre and some brake blocks.

The price of the Big Dummy is definitely related to the size of the company and low manufacturing volume - I spoke to Surly last autumn and they said that they'd only made about 700 or so at that time.

I like these wee films... proberly helped sell a few to a car free lifestyle...:o