[Closed] Seriously P'eed off with my new Stan's 355 rims

I'm assuming you are running them tubeless; use tyre levers to get them on, and you have put sealant in haven't you?

I've ran Mud X's tubeless since early November, not even had to top up the sealant (can still hear it).

kenda , schwalbe , panaracer all work fine and go on by hand but then i used to stick comp 32s onto d321s by hand too and ive watched people snap and bend several tire levers with that combo

Learn to fit tyres properly!

The Bonty's aren't the loosest, but none of the many pairs I've ever fitted have been that tight!

Make sure the bead goes down into the center of the rim on both sides whilst trying to get the tyre on and before trying to inflate.
Have you fitted a rubber rim strip ? As its not needed and will make the rim inner o/d too big i suspect.
And no probs here with Mud crosses either

On the other hand could just be you 🙂

Njee20 - it's not always the case that you don't know how to do it. Some tyre/rim combinations are just like that. Try putting Intense DH 4-ply tyres onto Mavic 823 rims; they are impossible without tyre leavers and I loose count of how many innertubes I've ruined this way.

Mega; if the LBS ended up using tyre leavers then they may well have nicked the innertube putting the tyre on. Best advice is to switch tyre brands. I know that Maxxis tyres generally fit the 355 well and work brilliantly tubeless. Can't comment on the other brands named here as I don't ride them.

As well as seating the tyre, try resting the tyre against a radiator for a few hours to warm it up and use fairy liquid on the rim. I did this with a particular stuborn set of tyres. I'm not looking forward to trying to repair a puncture when out and about.

[i]I spent 2hrs yesterday trying to get my Jones Mud X tyres onto my Hope Pro 3 wheels with 355 rims, painful thumbs, hands ache like heck this morning. Eventually took the wheels to my LBS yesterday evening and eventually got the things on.[/i]

Cough
[img] [/img] 😆

Njee20 - it's not always the case that you don't know how to do it. Some tyre/rim combinations are just like that. Try putting Intense DH 4-ply tyres onto Mavic 823 rims; they are impossible without tyre leavers and I loose count of how many innertubes I've ruined this way.

I know it's not ALWAYS possible, but I've fitted at least 10 pairs of Mud X's to various rims including 355s, and have never found a tight combination.

Ritchey rims were always horrifically tight. Having worked in a bike shop for 9 years though, I guarantee that 99% of the time it's poor technique!

I'm running with tubes.
Not sure what technique I should be using? I end up with about 4" of tyre that won't go onto the rim.

I'll try warming the tyre up

i've got two sets
1 with 2.35 swampies the other with 2.25 NN

no probles with either.

did you use just the yellow tape and a valve?

I'm running with tubes.

There's your first mistake! You've got a tubeless compatible tyre which will go straight up, and a rim which just needs a turn of tape and a £5 valve. Tubeless m'boy.

why buy Stans rims and then use tubes... ❓

Make sure you get the bead of the tyre sitting in the CENTER CHANNEL of the rim while you are putting the tyre on. This will give you enough extra to get the tyre bead over the rim. They are supposed to be quite tight. And use some tyre levers - I am pretty sure I used some to get the tyres on my 355s.

I have a send of Kendas that I can't get close to fitting on my 29" Stans arcxh rims. It's not technique, there is 1cm gap and I simply cant get them close.

Go around the tyre, gathering the slack by passing it hand over hand. You will get enough to pull the tyre on without needing to put it in the well, which surely Stan's rims don't really have, that's a UST thing.

I have the same problem with nobby nics and racing ralphs and my roval traversees (which bear a litigation-inducing similarity to Stans' rims). It's not just a lack of skill. I've watched my LBS mechanic take half an hour and break three tyre levers to get them on. You're right, it is a nightmare trailside, but my mates all like to compete to showe how much better they are at changing tyres than I am, and I'm happy to let them.

two lads I ride with run 355s and have no problems. I run Flows with Bonty muds and don't have problems either.

Gotta say I think this is a technique issue.

i've found Bontrager tubeless ready tyres to be a nightmare!! thats on XM819 and 355 rims.

i eventually tried
- inflating an inner tube in them before putting on the rim to stretch them a bit.
- using soap and water
- zip tying the tyre on in one place and using tyre levers to mount the tyre up to the zip tie, if that makes sense.

there were definitely in the centre channel too, and i gathered up all the slack. they are quite old tyres, maybe the more recent ones are better??

I got my racing ralphs on without too much bother. Oddly enough they were almost falling off the on-one rims that I had before. I guess that was why they were states as not suitable for tubeless.

I think the rubber rim strip is part of the problem, but I can't see a way around that.

I have the same problem with nobby nics and racing ralphs and my roval traversees

I have Controle SLs, and change tyres virtually weekly. Never had to even think about using levers.

Come to think of it, I don't own any.

So would I need the £70 stans tubless kit to run these without tubes?

No, you need one of [url= http://www.freeborn.co.uk/shop/components/tubeless-conversion-kits/699-stans-notubes-yellow-rim-tape ]these[/url], two of [url= http://www.freeborn.co.uk/shop/components/tubeless-conversion-kits/289-stans-notubes-olympic-valve-stem ]these[/url] and one of [url= http://www.freeborn.co.uk/shop/components/tubeless-conversion-kits/153-stans-notubes-the-solution-tyre-sealant ]these[/url].

[slight thread hijack]

What's the current thinking with ZTR355s for the minimum of faff and the easiest inflation with a track pump - normal tyres run tubeless or UST tyres run tubeless?

A friend is looking at getting some but wants to avoid messing around with compressors, soapy water etc. as much as he can. He needs to buy new tyres either way.

[/slight thread hijack]

They do seem tight 🙂

Least hassle is either no rim strips with UST tyres, or rim strips with non-UST tyres. The former is cheaper, but heavier, the latter lighter, but needs two of the £20 rim strips.

The yellow Stans tape will solve all your problems. My 355 burped on its first ride, so I bulked it out with a couple of layers of gaffer tape. Has stayed up fine since.
I really don't get why tubeless valves cost so much more than innertubes. I just cut mine out of dead tubes anyway.

The weight penalty on UST tyres is too large IMO. There is a bit of a art to non-ust tyres on Stans rims with just the yellow tape.

Two part valves make a huge difference as does a good high volume track pump. I put Kenda SB8s on my 355s recently pumping the track pump with one hand. I had spent some time moving the bead around a bit near the valve stem. If you can inflate 6" either side of the valve stem the whole things should go up pretty quick.

Preparation is the key I think.

It's not just a lack of skill. I've watched my LBS mechanic take half an hour and break three tyre levers to get them on.

Yellow Tape and Valves on my 355's and non ust tyres (Bonty MudX's and Conti MK's)
go up first time everytime on my cheapo track pump

no soapy water or faf required for me so far (fingers crossed

I do put the sealant in the tyre first and spin a few times to move it about around the bead but thats it.

and yes they can be bloody tight, bead in centre of the rim works though
didn't do that the first time i tried to mount a tyre and snapped 2 leavers in the proccess 😳

Mud-Xs have a tubeless bead.

I have them with schwalbe and they went down very easily actually.

Maybe try to play around with the pressure on the tube? Sometimes it helps..

But with those rims i would go tubeless.

nj200 Conti MK's don't though, I don't think
Some tyres are better than others tubeless ime

Kenda's generally to be avoided imho too slack, very thin side walls (on some) so very poriouse (SP?) and the delamination issue too with some sealants

Schwalbe don't sound great either generally

Conti good
Bontys good

not sure about others...

According to JRA, normal tyre brands and how they work tubeless:

http://www.justridingalong.com/content.php?pid=529

*whispers to 29erKeith* porous....

I'm running the same combo (Mud X on 355) and watched this before I started the installation:

[url= http://www.notubes.com/movieztr.php ]Stan at work[/url]

It's certainly more faff than a tubed tyre install, but it works. Can't say I'm planning on swapping tyres around too much in future, though.

Are RRs ok to go tubeless on my 355s, ive heard that the sidewalls are v thin?

The Sidewalls are thin but RRs have been fine on my 355s and ZTR Race 7000 during the whole of 2009. I wouldn't recommend them for super rocky trails though.

That`ll be fine then, i use them for xc races and riding the south downs!! I did find them tight when i fitted some slicks to em, when i sussed that if you put it in the rim in the well they go on a bit easier but was still a tight fit!

I road the South Downs way on them back in September without problem...there is a lot of flint around there though as I am sure you know. My experience is that you should run them at low pressures to allow the tyre to deform around objects. I think sometimes people run them at 40psi which is too hard. 25-30psi is how I run mine. Higher pressure does not mean more rolling resistence.

thanks Eldrik

[not to self must re-install firefox spell check dictionary]

I would wholeheartedly recommend Schwalbe as being the most compatible, I've never had any problems getting any of their tyres to install.

Not had the problems some folk have with ripping tyres either!

I had the same problem with a Flow and 2.2 Rubber Queen that I ran initially with tubes not realising my mistake. Two pinch flats during the Brecon Beast and taking over 25 minutes to get the tyres off soon had me converting the tyres to tubeless. No problems since 🙂

Typical STW response to plea for help on this thread. The OP 'must' be doing it wrong because I/my mate/etc has done this blah blah.

FWIW I have had trouble in the past with Bonty tyres on tubeless rims, Stans and Mavics. I had to get the Pedros screwdriver handled tyre lever out to get them on and off which I don't like doing. There seems to be a bit of variation in the sizing/bead diameter of Bonty tyres though because I've had other sets that have gone on by hand with ease. I've also had Continental UST tyres that are bloody tight too. These are the only ones that I have had trouble with and believe the OP when he says he's having real trouble and doubt that it is just down to technique after having similar problems. Oh and I've worked in bike shops for 10 years, can I have a medal?? 🙂

I would recommend getting a [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10021 ]Pedros DH tyre lever[/url] so that in the event of a puncture you can take them on and off.

I would wholeheartedly recommend Schwalbe as being the most compatible, I've never had any problems getting any of their tyres to install.

Not had the problems some folk have with ripping tyres either!

I have... Schwalbe tyres are overpriced, overrated and wafer thin! They are easy to remove and mount though which is useful because if you get some you'll be doing that often, even with the 'proper' UST ones....

If you're going to buy UST tyres then stick with Maxxis, they are durable and there are enough tread compounds out there to choose one to suit where you ride. The only issue I ever had was with the inner delaminating after quite a few months of heavy use, they warrantied it though so I got a brand new tyre when I needed to buy a new one anyway.

Careful you don't fall off that high horse Will 🙂

My experiences are my own, perhaps I'm better at fitting tyres than you, perhaps I've not come across any of these tight Bonty tyres! I must say I've struggled with a set on some Race X Lite rims with Bonty's own rim strip, but never on Stan's rims of any flavour.

I've used the full range of Schwalbe tyres for about 3 years without a single notable flat, a couple when I've gone back to the bike and it's been flat. That's good enough for me! They're also not expensive when bought from Germany.

Conversely I know of at least one person off the top of my head who's destroyed a whole raft of Maxxis tyres when running them tubeless. Guess it depends how/where you ride!

I was giving my best STW style response with no consideration that my opinion/experiences could not be true of every situation 😆

Can't argue with that, it was a true STW response!

I gave up running non-ust tyres tubeless when I was riding along a fireroad and my Racing Ralph tore itself in two almost. I got mine from Germany also but they're all 'expensive' when you damage it beyond repair without much use out of it. Since then they're gone up in price, even the cheap sources as far as I am aware.

The Maxxis tyres I've had have been LUST, not tried them in non-ust variety.

Quite confident that my tyre fitting skills are up to the job but I've still had problems with a couple of Bonty ones. Problems that I've not had with other Bonty tyres. My point was that I reckon it is perfectly possible that the OP has a tight set rather than writing him off as some tyre fitting numpty. I should find another forum though really as that sort of balanced opinion is a bit unusual here!!

Haha! Well I thought, in this situation, my more 'Communist' approach was better than a liberal suggestion that he may indeed have stumbled upon some tight tyres.

You being oop north tends to mean rockier terrain I guess, not much of that down here! I probably wouldn't use them so much if I lived somewhere like that, although I've still never had any problems at Afan/CyB etc, must be my mince-tastic style!

Well I had never ripped or damaged a tyre until I left the South. Things just kept breaking after then, not just tyres either. There is a long list, of mainly weight weenie parts that broke including 4 Spark shocks, a bent set of Cobalt cranks (at Laggan noless), a Tune hub/freehub, Pace RC39 forks and lots more. So I've left all that weight weenie stuff behind, tyres included.

Gravity's stronger further north, so you land harder. Fact.*

*may not be true.

Fit one of these.

[img] [/img]

With one of these in it.

[img] [/img]

Then come back and tell me it's hard to change a pushbike tyre. 🙄 😉

Stu your on fire 🙂

Sounds like making a very simple job difficult then blaming the equipment to me

Simple Stans 355's
3M mylar tape off ebay £5 for about 30 metres
Stans valve either type will do
Tyre on
Sealant in
Pump up
Shake rattle and roll
Leave on sides for a bit
Shake rattle and roll
Turn over
Then go for a ride

Bingo

Thats the SSS way to perfect tubeless every time

I use to have these in my m/c tyres..., was it a job

[url= ]Security bolt[/url]

b r - Member

I use to have these in my m/c tyres..., was it a job

Security bolt

No need to use them in the front and only need one rear one when using a mousse. 😉

Managed to get the tyre off, put it on the radiator to warm up, fixed the pinch flat, tyre went on a little easier this time round being warm.

I'm going to get the bits to go tubeless tomorrow, no way on earth could a tube be fixed out on a ride as it is.

I had exactly the same problem with Flow Rims on Pro3s - My advise is to send them back.

I sent them back after spending an entire morning trying to get them on without success.

Sent them back for EX500s which I were easier to mount a tyre on.

To those ignorant ****s saying "why use tubes with tubeless rims", why post such a stupid bloody question FFS..But here's the answer anyway.

STANS ARE TUBLESS 'READY', NOT TUBELESS 'ONLY'.

Touched a nerve there oops !

Funny that I am sure the trading name is quite heavily based around the theme 'NO TUBES'
not only in case of emergency' remove tubes' sorry to be so ignorant !

Got my new wheel yesterday with Stan's Flows, tried last night to put on a Bonty ACX as a test. Half an hour of swearing and grunting and a broken tyre lever later, but I did it! Boy was it tough. It's true that you have to get the bead down the middle channel, but it won't stay there easily. Took an age to then remove, I agree with the OP that it would be a farce to do at the trail side.

Going to set it up tubeless tonight. One question - if I try and fit tyre with Stan's fluid in it, it's going to go everywhere during the tyre-fitting wrestling match. Can I just pour it in through the valve instead, or will the world end? Or is that what the removable core is for? Stan's videos always show him putting the fluid in (ooo-err missus) into the tyre.

Indeed you can use the removeable core
You will get more air in for popping the tyre up on to the bead also
And only pour the fluid in just before you fit the final part of the tyre then turn 180 degress to keep the fluid in the beaded section of the tyre not all over the wheel tyre and yourself (Like i did the first time)
😀

Built up a Flow rimmed wheel last night and popped a Kenda Blue Groove onto it by hand. Wasn't really any more difficult than any other rims I've had to be honest. Perhaps a little bit tight but nothing major. One thing I did notice though is that it was more difficult to get the tyre seated nicely (admittedly, with a tube) all the way round. There were bits of the sidewall that were sitting too far down in the rim which I usually solve on other rims by inflating to about 15-20psi then grabbing and pulling the tyre by hand. Pumping them up really heard to see if they would pop into place didn't seem to work either.

Will order some valves, tape and sealant next week but wanted to get them up and running with tubes ready for riding this weekend. I predict the beads will pop into place easier with no tubes.

I sent them back after spending an entire morning trying to get them on without success.

Sent them back for EX500s which I were easier to mount a tyre on.

You're joking?

You swapped for some other, significantly heavier rims, just because you couldn't fit tyres?

Of course you can run tubes, but it defeats half the point of using Stan's NoTubes rims!

[b]KingOfSweden[/b] Good tip on the Mylar Tape, Cheers
I nearly order some Stans yesterday
Just ordered 5 rolls off of ebay for £7.50 inc P&P 😯

Stans tape seems like a 'charge it because we can' sort of deal 🙄
same as the bloody over priced Valves £6.50 for a Valve I can get a whole tube for next to bugger all more than that

same as the bloody over priced Valves £6.50 for a Valve I can get a whole tube for next to bugger all more than that

[thread hijack] sorry

Aracer. Do you still want to sell that Speedneedle saddle?

How many tubes do you think get made? How many tubeless valves?

Mavic et al are no doubt fuming at the fact I use valves from old inner tubes 😡

It's not as simple as that.

@ JamesP - yes, had forgotten I'd mentioned I'd got one. Should point out it's not in brand new condition - there's a bit of a wall scuff. Will e-mail piccies when I can get at my personal e-mail.

Aracer - no worries, as and when you get a chance 🙂 Email address is in profile.

No worries 🙂

willsimmons - Member
Typical STW response to plea for help on this thread. The OP 'must' be doing it wrong because I/my mate/etc has done this blah blah.

So you think you know best 'cos you've worked in a shop for 10 years? I bet you've still got poor tyre fitting technique - not that it matters when you're sat on your arse eating pies and moaning at the computer screen. Learn to fit tyres and MTFU southerner. Now that'd be a typical STW response 😆

What width is this mylar tape? all looks too wide.
Seller ID?

njee20 -

What so you're saying that 20gms a wheel is a significant weight increase...LOL

I've got 355 rims. Various tyres have been fitted with no problems until I tried a Nevegal UST. Brought back memories of my enduro days(rim lock included} lots of sweating and swearing.....and then it was too wide for the back of the 575.
I use the yellow tape method. Works a treat.

Yes! Got the ACX on the second time with the Stan's sealant almost without effort. It seems to go on much easier the second time, unless my technique somehow miraculously improved.

Felt so chuffed I took my newly-rebuilt ss out for a long ride.

I had to install 3 of the tyre security bolts in the rear wheel of my old Honda CR 500 MX bike. I was glad to see the back of it! I know nothing about stan rims though. I just use Mavic rims and a tube!

Been running tubeless 2 years now, have both Pro 2 819 combo and Pro 3 355 combo, some tyres are tighter than others its that simple. Would never go back to tubes, have had one or 2 mares but mainly due to me trying to get a bit more life out of a previously damaged tyre.
Oh and I run Conti Race kings non-tubeless ones, panaracer fire xc ust, maxxis crossmarks LUST, panaracer Trailraker UST on 819s with NO sealant and no problems ever, Panaracer Trail blasters (these were tight!). Have had one bad experience with tubed Schwalbe NN on a demo Giant Anthem X1, some people swear by them some about them. I may give them another chance as my Fire XC are in shreds.