I've been hankering after a Five for a while now but finances are tight and I have a Malt 2 hardtail with '09 XT Group and Reba Race forks + Race. Face finishing kit already. Financially it would make more sense to transplant that kit onto an ST4 frame rather than buy a five frame and new forks and maybe new wheelset if I went for these new bolt-through wheels (current XT/717 wheelset is QR).

So for Trail Centres, Mid Wales all dayers, Dyfi Enduro and SITS/Mayhem type riding will the ST4 be more than enough bike or should I pay out for the Five?

If it makes any difference I'm squat and short at 5'7 with 29" inside leg and similarly squat arms. I weigh in at 14 stone but that's coming down with riding.

To be honest having ridden both teh ST4 and the Five back to back, I don't see the point of the ST4, it's really no lighter than the Five, but seems to have a much lower BB = pedal strikes galore.

You could just buy a Five frame.

Yo're the same size as my mate and he rides a 16" Five

steve, yeh but the Five incurs the extra cost of the fork. The rebas I have will go straight onto an St4.

the point is that on singletrack the low bb makes the bike more chuckable – less of an 'on stilts' feeling you get on some fs bikes.

i really like the concept of a shortish travel back-end, with slack geometry and a relatively low b/b. in fact, i recently bought a cotic hemlock frame for this purpose (though not built up and ridden yet)…

oh, and i think the st4 would make a cracking bike for what you describe, judging from the reviews rather than actually riding one.

Your riding sounds exactly what the ST4 was designed for

ST4 does certainly seem to be leading the competition now 🙂

There don't seem to be many out there though. Only know of a couple on here, but the likes of matt_outandabout rave about them on a regular basis. Where are the other ST4 owners I wonder?

trance X.

If finances are tight then maybe it'd be a good idea to consider cheaper brands, such as the Giant Trance X mentioned by Olly.

cheaper, and better 😉

(skips off into the distance with the maestro pixies)

Ridden my Trance with the forks set at 115mm at the Dyfi,MM,SITS & most of the trail centres that you speak of.Perfect.

****skips off holding hands with Olly****

Dirt loved the ST4 when they tested it. But then they do love the 5 too…

Thanks guys. I'd prefer to keep the discussion between the Five and the ST4 though. I am not interested in complicating matters, there are plenty of other threads for 'which 4" FS bike?'

Sobs……

I'm happy with my ST4.

Last bike was a Whyte 46 = Ultra High bottom bracket, and yes, I am cracking the pedals all the time with the ST4 – will take a bit of getting used to I guess.

And this might just be me, but every time I change down to the granny ring I have to remember to ease off the power, otherwise it sucks the chain up right past the (square) chainstay, where it gets properly stuck. It's an off the bike/chain off job to sort out.

Had it two weeks and so far ridden Lee Quarry, Cwmcarn, FoD and Cranham. The traction is as good as they say it is, and I haven't felt like I've bottomed the suspension out yet.

I had the same decision – ST4 or 5 (or Prophet vs Rize).

I opted for the ST4 and glad I did. It is *slightly* nippier, *slightly* faster uphill, *slightly* more sprightly when you stomp on the pedals, *slightly* lighter, and *slightly* better at the riding I do 90% of the time.
Do I need a nearly 6" travel machine? No, and for the few times I would need / use all of the travel, was it worth lugging round / floundering elsewhere? I thought not.
The control the ST4 has on its travel seems great – nice 'short travel' feel most of the time, with seemingly an extra bunch of travel (its only 110mm mind) on tap. The STW review seems to sum it up nicely IME.

I too was 14.5st, now 13.5st, 6'.

Spent plenty of time on both bikes and they both have there own merits, fives are great confidence inspiring bikes, very easy to ride fast and generally are great all round bikes. The ST4 is a little bit more of a tricky machine that really responds well to good riding, takes a little bit of taming but once you do its no better or faster than a five, but its a much more fun and involving ride. Weve still got some offer frames left in 16" (08 Frames with 2010 BoostValve shocks) drop me an email if you want some further details.

Got an ST4 myself too and can only really echo what matt_outandabout has said.

Bought it as an all-rounder and has performed flawlessly. Trail centres, enduros, 24-12s, short blats all taken in its stride. Few pedal strikes to start with, but soon learnt how to ride accordingly!

Tried the 5 too – also a great bike, which you wouldn't be disappointed with – just preferred the ST4 myself.

Weve still got some offer frames left in 16" (08 Frames with 2010 BoostValve shocks)

V10 – Defintely no 18" frames left?

Definitely no 18"'s im afraid, we got quite a few but they were pretty heavily skewed towards 16s and most the of 18s were pre sold to staff/regulars before they ever arrived.

Thanks V10. I was too slow 🙁

you have Reba's on your Merlin, tehy will be 100mm won't they?

The ST4 is designed with 120mm forks in mind.

Anything shorter will leave the BB really low.

You may/will need a new fork on either frame (unless you have a 2009 Reba at 120mm travel)

The 2009 Rebas can be set at 120/100/80mm by adding or removing spacers

The pre 2009 Rebas can be set at 115/100/85mm by doing the same but to be honest raising the front end by 15 or 20mm only raises the BB by about 5 or 6 mm. The first batch of ST4s had 100mm forks fitted and the frame is designed for forks of between 100 to 130mm

Il go with the 5 you can do it all with it and be able to build it up and build it
down to what ever you want or thinking of riding next.
Thats the beauty of the 5 basically

Know someone who loves his, but its reckoned that you go a size down from your normal size to get the best from it so if you'd normally ride a 20 then the 18 is best. So maybe the 16 would be a little big, ask them if they've considered a 14?. Handles pretty much like a 4x bike if you really work them they fly, possibly the fastest off the peg trail bike around.

First I've heard regarding the size down thing. Anyone else comment on this? I figured a 16" would be perfect for me. The Malt is a 17 and feels just a tiny touch too ungainly in the twisties. I like a chuckable frame.

I've seen 09 ST4 frames going a bit cheaper online now as Orange have revised the rear to stiffen it up a bit for 2010 models.

16" here: http://www.rutlandcycling.com/15290/Orange-ST4-Frame-.html