[Closed] tubeless yellow rim tape

points and laughs

It should go on nice and smooth and in the middle of the rim.

Did a second set of Flow rims a couple of days ago and it went on dead easy.

Did you pull the tape tight and try to stretch it onto the rim as you went?

ooh rough as rats. mine looked pretty uniform though my rim looked wider.

hmmm im wondering if theres different widths and theyve given me the wrong stuff. it says it fits stans flow rims, and a few others, but doesnt mention my 355s. and its defo too wide to just lay in the centre, it climbs the inside of the rim 🙁

as for stretching it tight, i tried to push it in as tight as poss, but its certainly not stretchy. or that sticky really :-/

bit of a balls up really int it 🙂

That is a pretty shit job Dave... 😉 As Stu said, you need to pull it quite tight as you put it on. Also helps to heat it up a little, let it sit on top of a heater for a bit before you put it on. Need to make sure rims are totally clean as well. Given that you've already got it on there though, I'd mount a tyre with a tube in it and pump it up hard and leave it for a while to make sure it's stuck down as well as possible. If it then doesn't hold air tubeless you may have to start again.

am i right in thinking then, that rim tape up the inside of the rim would compromise the seal?

It does come in two widths - 21mm and 25mm. You need 21mm for the 355s. That could also be a big part of your problem...

rim tape up the inside of the rim would compromise the seal

Not necessarily

At this point I'd be inclined to try it and see as you've already laid out the cash for the tape.

Can you not trim the bits that are sticking into the rim lock with a Stanley knife.

Then make some [b]very[/b] small holes in the tape with a needle and put a tube in as Sam said.

The tiny holes will allow the air out from under the tape and help it stick down better.

grrrr........just been out to the garage to measure it and its 25mm. so they sent me the wrong stuff >-(
i told em what rims they were too.

i think rather than carry on with the wrong stuff, on a job thats dodgy enough anyway, ill give em a ring in the morning and ask em to send me the right tape :-/

make holes in it??????? er........was that a joke? 🙂

make holes in tape thats supposed to keep air in? 🙂

That's how they tell you to get any small air bubbles out.

Oh and it works for me.

After I took the tube out of mine they were dead smooth with no bubbles at all.

So there. 😛 😉

This might help you out a bit.

[url] http://www.notubes.com/movietape.php [/url]

also i dont really feel that i should be scoring the inside of the rim with a stanley :-/

no, i told em what rims i had, so i think they should send me the right stuff really.

did you have problems like this then stu?

I had a couple of very small air bubbles that I got rid of with the above method.

Have a look at the vid before you try again though.

what vid? ive been looking at ghetto vids on youtube. is there a proper one on JRA website?

There's a link on my post up there you fool. 😉

Dave, I'll email you in a mo.

ah right. will have a peek ta 🙂

video looks just like mine 🙂

Yep.

It's hard to tell the difference.....

For when you get the right tape - Sticking in a tube and tyre at 40psi over night helps stick the tape well down. I didn't file the tape out of the hole, I just cut a cross and pushed the valve through. Hasn't caused any problems so far.

Just Riding Along website says you can use 21mm with 355's but they RECOMMEND 25mm. After fitting+inflating a tube+tyre the tape will be flatter.

you reckon itll stick back ok if i take it off and try again?

but i still reckon 21mm would be easier 🙂

one question before i carry on with this next week...... i dont understand the compressor thing.

if ive put sealant in my tyre, and now the tyre is seated, and the wheels on a jig or hung somewhere, why does it matter how fast the tyre is pumped up? in fact id have thought thered be more call for it to be inflated slower, so you can keep tweaking the tyre all the way round as it inflates, to try and make sure it seats better.

why the need for a fast inflate?

Good work. I think the compressor is to help get more air in than is coming out until it's seated.

The compressor is just to get the tyre to seat in the rim in the first place. If you can get it to make a ping-type noise and stay seated with a track pump then that's fine. Then you can shake etc like in the Stans video to seal any leaks.

It can be tough to get the bead to snap into the rim and that's when you need to get in air quicker than it escapes. Your first ride on these wheels is going to feel good after all this effort!

now the tyre is seated

You won't be able to seat the tyre without getting a good amount of air pressure behind the beads to force them on to the rim.

yeah just had a play with the track pump. nowt doing 🙂

probably have to use a compressor from the nearest garage :-/ dont fancy having a 'badger' moment tho in front of a forecourt full 🙂

I couldn't find a forecourt pump that could blow quickly enough so had to ask a mechanic to use his compressor. He was astounded that you could get tubeless bicycle wheels. I also needed to get an adaptor so the compressor nozzle would fit onto the valve.

If you use watery soap on the beads they pop on at about 40psi IME

Put a tube in it overnight at 40psi, it helps to stretch the bead into place (and settle your yellow tape). Leave one bead still on when you take the tube out, plenty of watery soap on the open side and have another go with the track pump.

ok, update time. just tried that anthony, and no good. id left a tube in for a couple of days anyway on one of the wheels, so just did as you suggested and no good. loses the air straight away.

so.......just taken wheels to petrol station, and STILL no good. i tried another garage, and it seems these modern compressors arent very tubeless mtb wheel friendly at all 🙂

they rely on pressure being in in the first place. but theres a 'flat tyre' button to get you started. which i tried. but i swear the air comes out faster with my bike pump than that thing!! and after about a minute, if its not feeling pressure in there it packs in. 2 X 20p's wasted 🙂

this isnt going very well is it 🙂

Inflate the tyres with tubes for a day or so, then try tubeless again. I always have trouble with new tyres that have been folded up, but have no problem reseating them unless they have been packed away in the shed for a while.

(sorry, I see you've already tried that in the above post)

A small co2 inflator has never failed me when trying to seat stubborn tyres 🙂

never looked at them mate. how much are they? and do you have to buy your air? or refill? or is it a case of once youve bought it, it costs you nothing after that?

Jesus - just about to venture tubeless myself - this thread is not filling me with joy!

hmmm just been looking, and i think rather than keep chucking money at it with inflators, ive GOT to try getting air into them for free first!!! :-/

To be honest I've never had much trouble.

The CO2 inflator we've had for over a year, I think we've used two cylinders in that time...its just there as a last resort. Its an Innovations inflator, not sure if they are all the same, but this one you can inflate one tyre, then when you release it self seals, then you can use it again for the other tyre. I think some just pierce the canister and its a case of use it or lose it over the next few seconds!

so how many wheels can a canister do? loads? i was under the impression it was 1 canister for 1 wheel.

I think for a full inflation its one per wheel, but I just use it to get the tyre sealed which happens almost instantly, then stop inflating and switch to a trackpump as I find I need 60PSI to get the beads to pop into place. You'd probably need two canisters per tyre to get enough pressure to get it to pop into place unless you use one of the extra large canisters.

I see from your other postings you often ride from Willingham Woods. I live 5 mins from Caenby Corner, If you bring some decent biscuits your welcome to pop round and I'll get them seated for you.

I'm certainly no expert but I haven't had any problems with either Flow's, 355's or Olympics.

ooh matey, ill take you up on that this week if i dont have any luck in the next day or so. when are you about at home?

fig rolls do you? 🙂

Trouble with garage compressors is that a lot are very low pressure (not sure why, maybe it's to stop people giving themselves aembolisms and suing?), same with small electric compressors.

My grandad had a homemade tyre fitting compressor which he used for car and motorbike tyres... Brilliant it was, he had an old jeep wheel and tyre which he'd inflate to about 60psi with a footpump, and a hose with a schrader fastener at both ends. One end on jeep tyre at high pressure, other end on car tyre, open valve, pop! One seated tyre. Hard work though. Basically a manual compressor. Me, I have a decent compressor, and I wouldn't like to do tubeless without it personally.

I've got the 25mm tape in my Arch's and it went in fine (they're the same width as the 355's), just need to pull it really tight, smooth as a babies bottom!

My tyres sealed first time with a track pump....peice of cake, they weren't the tightest fit either. Both my Flows and Arch's done without one problem, my bonty's were a nightmare!

right......ive had some success. not much, but some 🙂

ive cobbled together an adaptor and got it to work ok with the compressor at work. and its inflated the tyres 🙂

but......they came straight back down again, so must be pretty leaky. i could defo feel some coming out of the valve hole on the rim.

is this normal? i was sort of expecting them to stay up a little while, so that when i put sealant in, i can splosh it about while the tyres still inflated.

as it stands, if i put sealant in now, then id be rotating and shaking a flat tyre, which doesnt sound right :-/

if its relevant, i made the hole for the valve the same way as the youtube vids, with a little cross cut with a stanley, rather than a filed hole. should i stick another couple of bits of yellow tape over the hole and file a new hole you reckon?

I found mine leaked around the valve hole, but once the sealant was in and I gave them a shake that stopped. I've no idea if this is the best way to do it, but it worked- I inflated it once to seat the beads, then popped part of one bead off and added sealant. Then, inflated again to reseat the beads, and as the air escaped gave it a shake. The sealant soon found the holes, plugged the minor ones and sealed the stem and the beads. I did have to reinflate again and have a couple of cracks at sealing some bigger holes but it was easy enough. I had some suspicious white marks on the garage floor though! Very exciting this bike fettling

exciting? you reckon? 🙂

i think for my own peice of mind im going to have to try again with the valve holes :-/
make em smaller than the valve with a round file, then push them through for a tight fit. then if thats no better ill press ahead and do as you suggest. keep inflating and swishing around til they hopefully stay up.

You were lucky to get them up at all without sealant in there. Get the sealant in, blow them up, slosh it around. Blow them up some more and go for a ride for 10 mins. If they are stil lholding air when you get back you are good to go.

surely the tyres would go up whether or not theres sealant in or not sam? its just that they go down again without it no?

so its ok to slosh the sealant around in a flat tyre?

is there any advantage in where the valve is when you inflate it? should it be at the top? bottom? or not matter?
will the sudden rush of air be trying to force the sealant out of the side of the now unseated beads once its gone down?

ta

surely the tyres would go up whether or not theres sealant in or not sam?

I had to put sealant in one of mine to get it to seal around the valve before it would inflate.

I put some sealant in and put the valve at the bottom so it would run down around it - seemed to work.

this was going to be by next question, before i get started.

im conscious that the valve is on the inside of the wheel. (good start eh?) and the sealant running along the bottom of the tyre. so in effect will never come into contact with the valve, and any little air leaks around it?
so i was thinking what a good idea itd be to have the valve at the bottom, then quick as a flash, invert it, so sealant could fill any holes around the valve. then i thought dur...... itd just fill the valve too and plug it all up wouldnt it???

nope, i think ill answer my own question here. i really should think these things through properly before opening my mouth 🙂

air wont actually be coming out of the valve itself will it, so therefore wont clog up, itll just run back out. itll only seal the little air leaks around it. ho hum.

i reckon ill get this cracked tonight 🙂

another quick question about sealing it before too much air leaks. ive seen in the vids, the blokes shaking the wheel, tilting etc to get the sealant all over. and it seems quite slow to get round the wheel.
wouldnt it be quicker to hold the axle and spin it? and as its spinning keep tilting it from one side to the other?
id have thought the sealant would then cover the whole tyre quicker than the shake and tilt method?

Maybe yeah - I think you are thinking about this too much though!

The valves can get a bit claggy after a while but it's never been a problem for me so far.

thinking about it too much??? youre not wrong there! 🙂

I presume you are using a Stan's vavle?

I'll mail you my address just in case!

Anthony.

don't think you've said what tyres? try it with a real UST first?

i havent got UST tyres,and dont want them to be honest. im hoping to not spend any more money on this project 🙂
i was hoping JRA might have sent me the correct tape for free, as i obviously struggle with the recommended 'wrong tape' they sent me, but thats a no-no so im going to just persevere with my sh*t effort 🙂

oh, and ill put another layer of yellow tape over the valve hole, and do a neater hole with a round file this time i think.

ive got maxxis ardent up front, and schwalbe little albert on the back.

anthony, just read your mail thanks mate, and will reply to it in a sec, but im not sure if its a stans valve or not. its whatever JRA send out. presta, but im using a schraeder adaptor with it.

d-day should be on nights tonight. soapy water rinse, sealant in, inflate, cross fingers, curse, then kick f*ck out my tyres when it doesnt work 🙂

thanks 🙂

can you remove the core from the valve? (I'd assume yes if it's from JRA)

I would do what you did but with the core out of the valve - soap the beads & inflate & seat the tyre without jizz in it. Get it pressured enough to pop onto the rim properly all round. If there's loads of leakage round the valve at this point, consider either tightening it a bit or maybe seal it better (got any bathroom masticy stuff ?)

Then when tyres well seated, remove the pump & let it deflate but hopefully stay on the rim. Inject jizz down the valve, put in the valve core & inflate. Then do the rotate/shake/swear at leaky sidewalls like they do on the vids.

i was going to use the scoop as i know i need 2 of those. yes, the nozzle down the valve will be easier, but how would i know how much ive put in? guesswork?

cheers

I use an old chain lube bottle with the hole enlarged a bit - you could just tip 2 scoops worth into that & squirt away !

SUCCESS!! sort of 🙂

forgot to take my adjustable to work, and also didnt bring a syringe. so it was a case of either leave it another day, or press on with original plan of unseating bead and tipping sealant in. so i went for it. and its gone fine. after a fair bit of bubbling, it all settled down after id shaken it about, and theyre still up 🙂

one thing puzzling me tho. 1 tyre keeps springing a leak. its fine until i sit on it and ride, then it starts spraying out from a little hole. its not on the rim, its in the middle of the tread :-/

i position the tyre so the holes at the bottom and it stops. spin the wheel, fine. go for a ride, it does it again. i cant understand why its not sealing that hole. it even sprays sealant out each rev as im riding it.
itll also leak if i start pumping tyre up again. once the tyres were up, i checked pressure with track pump, and pumped up to 30psi. but sometimes as i pump, it seems to break the seal in this one place and sealant spurts out again.

you reckon i need more sealant in there? i just dont understand why the sealant thats in there isnt plugging that 1 little hole.

prob a bigger hole/split than you think - these are used tyres ?

you need jizz with bits in to seal bigger holes (see old threads on glitter etc 😯 ) or you need a "plug". tubeless repair kits tend to have strips of rubber that you fold & shove into the tyre using a little tool (suppose it's like making a proddy mat but I've never done either)

If it's a massive hole you might need to patch it from the inside

scaredypants, ive just been to check and youre right 🙁 one of the knobbles on the tread is split (sorry, not a very clear pic but you should be able to make it out)

[img] [/img]

so my next question is.........whats the best way of fixing it? im guessing the tyre isnt knackered just cos of this 1 knobble, so is it just a case of a patch on the inside of the tyre? clean it all up, patch it, then repeat the sealant process again?

or is there a quick fix where i can unseat part of the bead again, press a patch or something onto the inside of tyre, and away i go again?

pah! thought id cracked it as well 🙂

bluddy hell this is becoming a work in progress int it!! and it wont stop til im happy and sorted 🙂

following advice, tonight im going to fix the inside of the tyre with a normal tube patch. which leads to another question. or 2 :-/

1. im going to hang wheel, break bead seal one side, fix tyre with repair kit, re-seal again and inflate. now will the tyre be all gunked up with solid sealant when i take the bead off? do i need to clean it all with soapy water again? or is it better to leave whats already there in place?

2. if i put the patch on, ill leave it an hour or so before inflating again to make sure its dried. and then probably put another scoop of sealant in. will the sealant thats already in there be ok left in the open air for an hour? or does it start solidifying? i assume that i still want to be covering the excess glue with grated chalk? it wont affect the sealant in any way?

thanks

for both points, the sealant shouldn't go off.

there's air in the tyre, so exposure to air with the bead off isn't any different.

I recently had to put 2 patches inside a UST tyre where a really good wallop put two splits in the tyre. Worked fine. I suspect that patching a UST is more effective though as there is a better layer of rubber inside for the patch to vulcanise to.

ive got some [url= http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=17&item=TB-2 ]park tools 'emergency tire boots'[/url] in my kit too.

im defo going to use a patch, but do you reckon theres owt to gain from using one of these over the top of it?

Nah tyre boots are for splits. Just clean it up thouroughly, and patch it.

hahaha!! i AM the badger!!!

had one explode on me earlier 🙂 big bang and milk all over me. just pleased there were no cameras about 🙂

think it was a combination of plenty of soapy water on the rims, and not being able to measure the pressure. i guessed. i guessed too high 🙂

all cleaned up and fitted again now. altho im bobbing it just using track pump now up to 30psi 🙂

ill go for a ride tomorrow and hopefully the pressure will stay the same.

just to join in your fun - i successfully converted one of my wife's wheels yesterday.

cheapy electrical tape to seal the spoke holes, cut out valve from old inner tube taped in, used non-UST tyre and stans sealant.

it took a bit of fiddling to get tyre to seat around the cut out valve, but eventually the compressor did it's thing. I only really used soapy water after inflation to help check for leaks. The sealant has done its thing nicely.

For the next conversion I'm going to get a real tubeless valve to put in, as the cut out version gets in the way of the tyre too much.

you did a non tubeless rim and non tubeless tyre without rim strips or 'ghetto' tube?? nice one.

did you use presta or schraeder valve? not really sure why you would have trouble seating tyre around the valve, as the tyre will be up on the rim, not around the valve? unless youre saying you had a load of leccy tape in there holding the valve in too?

can you explain a bit more, cos now ive had success with my 29er, i want to do my 26" mtb now 🙂 but thats a totally non tubeless set up. i was thinking of going ghetto with that one.

hi sadexpunk,

I used a presta valve from a bmx tube. Actually I first tried the cut open bmx tube method, but couldn't get the tyre on (seems that DT rim and bonty tyre are rather tight!).

I cut the valve out narrow enough to get in the rim. The problem seemed to be that the tyre wanted to stay in the center of the rim and the bead wouldn't settle next to the valve at first. Some fiddling and mild cursing got it in in the end.

I did two wraps of insulation tape with the valve trapped between the two.

The key really seemed to be the compressor (aldi small one) and once up, the sealant. It first sealed with a small amount of sealant because I ran out. I've since added more and at the same time got to see that the tape was well pushed into the spoke holes by the pressure, but with no splitting at this stage. No sign of losing pressure so far.

Just put some Mudx's on olympic rims, just used electrical tape and some mavic ust valves, mudx's quite tight to get on rim, but went straight up with track pump!

hmmm might be worth a try then. ive got mavic rims (few years old now) and kenda blue groove/nevegals.

you chaps using removable cores? or unseating bead and pouring in?

hopefully ill have enough sealant left. shame i wasted a wheel full with my big 'fail' moment 🙂

my first lot of sealant went in before even the first inflation. had to release the bead for the top up.

I'd go for the optimistic and determined approach of putting the sealant in and 'knowing' that you'll make it work.

sadex, you want a removable core anyway - better airflow for seating the tyre on the rim in the 1st place, regardless of how you inseminate the wheel

Yeah removable valve cores are a must, i was lucky with the mudx's went up with the cores in, but used cinders last time and took the cores out and used compressor and an adapter for the valve! Volume is your friend!

am i right in thinking tho that you only get removable cores in presta valves? and arent they smaller diameter than the car type?

so if you just have a valve rather than an inner tube, do you need an adaptor for old rims that have been using car type, because the hole in the rim is too large?

or is that b*ll*cks? 🙂

the proper tubeless valves in my UST wheels are prestas with removable cores

All Schreader valves have removeable cores, though you need a little tool to undo them. The cap on Slime bottles has a valve core remover.

Presta, most are removable but once undone you have to let them drop inside the tyre, and pinch the inner tube between fingers to keep hold of the core whilst adding sealant, then manoevure the core back into the valve and tighten back up.

The Stans ones are different and can be removed to the outside like Schreader. Be careful with them as I went to top up my tyres a while back, undid the knurled nut and instead of undoing just the nut, the core came out and fired across the dining room, and I'm left sitting there with my finger over the hole, trying to let the air out slowly without spraying Stans up the wall and over the carpet 🙂 Just needed nipping up with some pliers. Five minutes later I almost did the same with the front, though I realised what was happening before it fired across the room 🙂