[Closed] Which AM/DH frame?

Think you need to be realistic;

Are you going to have only one bike?
What sort of riding do you usually do?

Plenty of bikes you can build up that will cope with most you can throw at them, but I wouldn't call them DH bikes..

Well at the minute all I'm really riding is DH.. I only have weekends to ride my mtb at the minute and I'd rather be having fun on downhills than working hard on xc too much. I have a road bike which I ride weekday evening for "training" rides.

My current mtb is a compromise anyway, being more of a dirt jumpy bike than xc or downhill. I get by well enough on it, I'd just rather have the confidence of a slack head angle and some rear bounce for roots and rocks.

Why not a dedicated dh bike then? And push to the top with a bike smile on your face 😉

plenty of 140-160mm travel bikes can handle dh courses with ease

spesh sx trail, sc heckler, kona coiler, etc etc

you might not be winning any races xc or dh on them but bags of fun!

Why not a dedicated dh bike then?

Seems a bit limiting to have as my only mtb is all. I'd still like to be able to do an xc ride if I fancied it.

I was saving for a complete dedicated dh bike to have as a second one, but it seems unnecessary to have 2 mtbs "just in case I fancy an xc ride", especially considering I'm only on just above minimum wage!

thats where the alpine 160 comes in 🙂 buy it

5 Spot with a coil shock is reet good giggle downhill. Or if bigger, I'd be having a long look at one of these when they arrive.

[img] [/img]

I think even just the Alpine frame by itself would be out of my budget. Saving up about a grand for either a 2nd hand complete or 2nd hand frame, finishing kit (seatpost, clamp etc) & new drivetrain as mine's ****ed.

How much rear travel should I be looking at? Probably won't want to go above 160 on the front.

What sort of downhill tracks do you ride?

If its nothing too long (likef ft bill) or rough, why not just get a 5 inch travel frame (like blur 4x). Probably faster than a proper downhill bike on the non rough stuff and would work better for jumps. If you start getting into downhill properly then you can sell it and get a proper dh bike.

Main places I ride are Stile Cop, Woburn and Forest of Dean. Was absolutely battered after the uplift I did at FoD on my hardtail 😆

How about an enduro sl with coil shock and spec AFR shock for the odd xc if you want to lighten it a bit.

Cannondale prophet if you're after 2nd hand.

Enduro would be getting my attention I think. Or a Wolf Ridge if I wanted to go smaller. That said there's loads of bikes that'll do it, if you don't want race pace- my Hemlock with its 2 degree head angle reducer, its fattest tyres and its lyriks in makes for a seriously capable descender (ie, gets me down DH trails alive, which is some feat as I'm rubbish) but if I put its Revs back in and skinnier tyres on it's back to being a brilliant allround trailbike.

Dirt magazine have been spunking over a Last Herb Am - "Fastest trail bike on the Planet" apparently.

The am or fr look ideal.

I'll second the suggestion of a used Prophet.

On your budget, maybe a used SX Trail?

Would be perfect for FoD DH tracks I reckon.

If you'r intent on saving up a grand you'll get a half decent full DH bike for that and get to keep your trailstar?

You say all you're riding is DH so why worry about limiting yourself if you're already doing it?

[url] http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/672278/ [/url]

[url] http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/714782 [/url]

That took me two mins - might not be exclusive but will be better compromise than what you're proposing...good luck

Tom - the Last Herb AM is supposed to be amazing, but they are pretty heavy (frame without shock is 3.6 IIRC) so a complete build will be no lighter than say 34lbs with kit that's going to handle what the bike can do.

I'd worry less about the amount of travel and more about the quality of travel and the geometry, especially given where you're riding it - you could look for something between 140mm and 160mm but the benefit of the shorter travel bike will be that you can put something like a Pike on the front and still have good performance with lighter weight and lower cost.

Those locations are great; FOD is the one I am very familiar with and it's sooo much fun, but it's not especially demanding so you can get away with quite a light bike. I think that Rowan Sorrell won a number of the short course races there on an Orange Five.

Your budget is tight though so you'll be needing to get something off of eBay I suspect if you want a full suss frame. The Pitch is the obvious choice as it's so capable and the frames seem to be very reliable; plus if you bought one new and then sold the new parts, using your kit from the DMR to swap over, then you'd likely make enough back to stay close to your budget.

Be very wary about buying a second hand Spesh Enduro from 2005 to 2007. That would be absolutely THE bike to have second hand for what you want to achieve, but they have a habit of cracking around the chainstay, even the reinforced ones can break (I went through three chainstays and on the third breakage I also found a crack in the main frame, but luckily I was the original owner so Spesh gave me a whole new 2010 frame!) You won't have a warranty if you buy second hand.

Have a look at the Norco Six. you can find em on PinkBike / Ebay dirt cheap and they're a great, solid frame that can be used for riding XC but are great on the DHs. I use mine for big mountain riding, trail centres, uplift days & occasionally some XC. It's a very similar bike to the SX trail & will accept triples as well as LT forks. 150/170mm out back. Would be perfect for your budget & requirements. I love mine.

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/list/?q=norco+six&category=0&pmin=&pmax=&region=5

If you're a short-ass Winstanley's still have one in a small size - http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/7604/Norco_Six1_Bike_2006

I use a Santa Cruz Bullit for general trail duties, it's built pretty tough and with U-Turn Lyriks it still climbs pretty well. Weights about 37lbs or so. I find it only really struggles if you try to hustle it on flat ground, apart from that it's quick enough. I paid £400 for my frame, with a set of 888s that can swap on in 5 minutes for DH tracks, and a few other bits.

If money was no object I'd probably look at the Trek Scratch or the new Cannondale Claymore for what you're after as they're both very light and the Claymore is very adjustable for getting up the hills in the first place.

Tom - one other consideration for you:

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.freeborn.co.uk/devinci-2011-hectik-2-frameset ]Devinci Hectik 2 Frame - £1199[/url]

You could race the Mega Avalanche on this very competitively. I've ridden one a few times and they are excellent; seriously competitive against things like the Spesh Enduro, Orange Alpine 160 etc, but considerably cheaper right now.

James is your man at Freeborn. He's had one for a while and can tell you more about them. 01403 251 252

commencal meta? nice and cheap secondhand, climbs well, flies down. might not be as DH oriented as you want tho, but I haven't found the limits of mine yet. and i'm 17.5 stone so it can take the weight you're after.

See you've started a thread for Pitch or SX frame wanted, Enduro might be better, enduro's are good with 36's up front, the SX will be a bit too heavy to pedal around (tried that) but pretty close to a DH bike with Totems

I like my Intense Uzzi a lot, works well on DH tracks but is fine on trails too. I have a Lyrik on the front, would not work well with the Pike. Enduro Evo should be really nice too.

I like my Intense Uzzi a lot, works well on DH tracks but is fine on trails too.

Great suggestion, but you might have missed this point:

Saving up about a grand for either a 2nd hand complete or 2nd hand frame, finishing kit (seatpost, clamp etc) & new drivetrain as mine's ****ed.

Think the Uzzi, nice as it is, might break the budget a little 😯

Second hand Patriot frame, with something like Lyriks or 36's

I have just sold mine and until I got my Sunday I used it for everything from local rides to Whistler bike park. Lots of Cwmcarn uplift days etc.

Was OK on all day rides too, bit heavier than some long travel bikes, but the build was strong, no point have a flimsy set of wheels on a 6" travel bike.

Thanks for all the replies, so much choice and I still dunno what to do 😆

Still thinking about doing the whole "hardcore hardtail" thing like I have been doing, but with something slacker and able to take bigger forks. I know I can get away with a lot more dodgy landings and roots on a full sus though! Also I'm tempted to work up to doing the Fort William endurance DH thing next July, think it would probably be hell on a hardtail!

And yes I rode a mates Uzzi a while ago at FOD and loved it. Bit heavy and ott for me though. Also I think I'd prefer something a bit more "flickable" rather than a barge that sticks to the ground.

I've got a hardcore hardtail - 456 Carbon with Lyriks - and while it is quick, it's not on the same page as the Bullit for DH type stuff. The thing with the 456 is that if you hit something a bit too hard with the front wheel, you'll get away with only being slightly out of control, until the rear wheel then hits it and you end up in trouble. With the full-sus the rear end will behave much more like the front, so if you can get the front through it, generally the rear will play the same game without trying to kill you.

Both are really good and fun to ride, but the difference between front and rear wheel performance on the 456 is a big consideration with how fast you get through stuff, there's much less room for error I guess is my point.

Someone mentioned a bullit up there, I have two bullits, one in trial guise and one in more Dh the trail guise one is 32 lbs, ok it does have carbon bars, cranks and pace carbon forks for lightness but it still feels capable of anything..

Yeah Patriot is a good call too. Bit heavier than some more AM-style bikes, but very sturdy and capable of doing more proper DH riding if required. Excellent fun to ride too.

You could probably pick up a decent used SX or Patriot for a grand, and then why not keep your HT?

But if only having one bike, maybe something like a Pitch would be the better option.

For a hardtail don't discount the 456 or 456 SS, thyere long and in SS guise, slack, pretty much how a DH bike should be.

I took mine to Spain with me with 150mm X1 RC2's up front, and supertacky 2.5" tyres, it was ace. Only suffered on big downhills where after 5 minutes of abuse I was completely shot and couldn't hold the bars any more!

Full sus, if your buying new look at the transition covert, the guy who runs Whight Mountain owns one and I've a bad case of bike envy. 2nd hand I'm thinking the same as you, pitch or prophet.

How about one of these I just built this up and it runs great. £200 for the frame and shock! All the rest was on my 456 apart from the seatpost.

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/29930426@N04/5121970897/ ]DSC_0356[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/29930426@N04/ ]i_ache[/url], on Flickr

Oh and the frame cant weigh much more than a Trailstar. Full build 32lbs.

Kinnel, if he gives me a grand, Tom can have my Patriot! [img] [/img]

Nobodies mentioned a burly built Five yet?

Run with pikes initially then with Lyriks ( i have one with lyriks)

Short stem, wide bars. Few beefy components. Bobs your uncle.

I recently managed to get a refurbished Patriot 66 frame off e-bay and built it up with sturdy wheels, my coil Pikes, a 65mm stem and some light DH bars, Dual and bash up front and flat pedals, everything else XT or LX. 205/185 hope floating rotors, and an as new RP23 air shock from an Alpine. Having had a five and then a blur 4x I'm loving the new build, its a fab all rounder and feels super planted. So far I've used it for some Alpine xc and lots of general mucking about, and the Pikes are working great with the frame. I thought about trying Lyrics but I don't think I'll bother for now.

Got a Five with Lyriks - insanely adaptable bike. Love it.

Want a big rig, but for 90% of my riding the Five works.

Over 3 mins and nobody has slated the five for being overprice/ugly blah blah nonsense.

STW you disappoint me.

Tom YGM

I run a patriot with a pike 454 up front. It will be getting some Lyriks when budget allows. I'm not slow down hill and still feel I have got some way to go before I need "more bike" under me.

Its an ace frame, ugly but does the job and not too heavy. loads around too.

Over 3 mins and nobody has slated the five for being overprice/ugly blah blah nonsense.

STW you disappoint me.

FWIW, I used a Patriot as a guide bike in Chamonix, in 2003. Loved it then, even with its 'long' 125mm Vanillas! It climbed well (especially over the technical stuff) as long as you didn't mind sitting and apinning, and was ace fun on the downs.

Patriot is seeming like a good choice then. Orange bikes look to be built like a brick shithouse as well 🙂

Considering I could get a used dh bike for probably £800-900 I think I might actually just go for a complete rather than build up something from my Trailstar remains! Although if the Patriot will ride well with a 140mm Pike then it would be ok. My only real issue with buying a complete is that I'd be worried I'd only be paying really for the frame/forks then the rest of the parts would be shit.

There's a 2002 Patriot LT with old Boxxers on Pinkbike at the minute for £450. Good price/is it likely to be battered to shit?

I don't know any more, buying new bikes is annoying!

No, get one of the newer patriot 66's if anything. The old ones had a tendancy to crack.

Your best off getting one with a platform shock aswell

platform shock? What's one of those then?

I'd agree with David. A platform shock has a 'platform' in it which requires a certain amount of force to 'blow through'.

Essentially, what it gives you is a smaller amount of travel until you take a hit that exceeds the 'platform' settings, which then allows the rest of the shock to be used.

To put it into a real-world situation, when climbing you will have a small amount of travel due to the platform, but as soon as your bike starts taking hits descending - because of the greater forces involved - the shock will fully open and active (the platform will be continually getting 'blown through')

Re: the Boxxers, unless you're planning to ride purely downhill I'd avoid and get a single crown.

The Patriot 66s started in 2005 as well, IIRC. Personally I'd get nothing older than that and preferably be looking for something a lot newer (the 2007 model was lovely).

An 8 year old big-hit frame with DH forks is not a wise investment.

The 66's also look like they have decent geometry.

I had an 05 7+ and it was quite short and tall.

The 66's look lower and slacker and they have adjustable geometry.

Yes Patriot 66 is the one to go for, super versatile, try to get a later one with the revised swingarm.

I have an as new Patriot that I have built up, but due to a change in circumstances, can't see myself using to anywhere near its potential in the next 12 months.

18" Chrome grey 2008 Patriot (the last version ever made) with Manitou coilover shock and Fox float air shock (just serviced & tuned by Simon at Loco tuning)
Spank Spike 777 bars
Hope Mono m4 brakes
2010 Marzocchi 55 Mico Ti forks 160mm travel
Mavic ex823 tubeless rims on hope Pro2 hubs
SDG belair Ti saddle
Raceface seatpost
Raceface cranks & Bash
E-13 DRS

Its mint having been ridden twice off road and one commute since being built and stands me at a small fortune. I don't want to split unless someone desperately wants the frame from me then I would. All in as it is £1200, which is a bit over your budget but will not need anything spending on it:

[IMG] [/IMG]

That looks so good and I'm tempted to try and save a bit extra for that! Think 18" might be a bit big though, current bike's a 16" and I used to have a 19" which was way too big.

Have also just realised that new complete Specialized Big Hit 1's are "only" about £1100 - I know it wouldn't be suitable for climbing but potentially a really good downhill bike for relatively cheap?

Tom - the Big Hit would be a great DH bike for the money.

Yep this is the one I was looking at - http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-Big-Hit-FSR-I-Mountain-Bike-2010-Full-Suspension-MTB_20979.htm - not a huge fan of the newer curvy specialized looks but if it rides nice..

Buying new would give me great peace of mind as I know that DH bikes tend to get thrashed, and also I'd have warranty. That Patriot above really does look nice though!

Have also just seen the ad up top for the £199 blue pigs, very tempting I'm just not sure if I want a hardtail for downhill!

If you're not planning on riding up anywhere, I doubt you'll get so much (good) bike for your money anywhere else.

You could even ask if they'd upgrade the fork to something nicer like a Domain 318 for a bit more cash at purchase. Or pick one up off ebay.

Vanilla is a pretty good rear shock, got one on my Froggy. Avid brakes are strong. Drive train you can upgrade over time anyway.

Tom, an 18 patriot would feel way to big for you, imho, if you want a go on my 18 just holler, but they feel massive and i know you like your chuck about bikes.. stand over clearance is a massive issue on my +7 too..

Plus side of the stand over is the bb hieght, the breakover clearance is massive, i get back on my on one after a ride and forget, and end up clattering the cranks rings and pedals on everything

Cool, sounds good 🙂 Only problem is I've been looking and can't find x-firm springs for that fork anywhere on the internet. I'd definitely need the hardest ones at my weight, although in a few months when I can afford it I should have lost a bit more 😛

U31 I had wondered about sizing for a Big Hit as well, gonna have to have a ride on some to see what I think. Think you're a bit far up north for me to easily come and have a go on your orange!

offers there if ever anyone organises a ride out.... 🙂

Seen this? - [url] http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/500-deal-specialized-big-hit-1-2008-medium [/url]

N.B - nothing to do with me in any way...

The standover on a 7+ is hugely different to the later Patriots. The one I've offered above is an18", but the seat tube centre of bb to centre of top tube is 36cm, or less than 15". So unless you have a ride on one I wouldn't discount it too readily. I went from a 16" 66 version to an 18" of the later ones and they feel virtually the same, though a bit longer and more stable at speed.

Tom, I got more into DH last year (only at StileCop mind), got better at it and realized by Heckler was gonna break much earlier than it should do, so I sold it and bought a Bighit2, kept my HT. A decent DH bike will help so much with confidence and your riding can really be improved by confidence. If you can- buy 2nd hand DH bike, keep the HT. My Mate just bought a nice Giant from PB for £600, another mate got a Commencal Supreme for about the same. Patriot, SX trail etc would be good though.