[Closed] Difference between Rab and Arc'teryx?

Arcteryx are better made / designed IMO compared to Rab. They have better detailing on things like cuffs etc. Nothing wrong with Rab at all (I have loads), but Arcteryx is definitely a step up in design / quality. They both will use similar fabrics / materials, so not a big difference in performance. In the end the choice would come down to fit / aesthetics for me.

Arcteryx is pretty much what Rab stuff from 20 years ago was in terms of market placement... Ie the best that you can get.

Rab stuff these days is just mass produced far eastern tat reasonable kit at a lower price point trading on Carrington's good name.

Got some new Rab stuff and some old stuff. The fact that my 30 year old Kinder smock now looks and works just as well as my current Rab offering says a lot about the supendous quality that it used to be.
Don't get me wrong, it is still.pretty good/ok but not same level as arcteryx

Dark Peak Nessh, and get that extra warm feeling of providing a warm coat to someone homeless...

See I just don't get on with Arcteryx stuff at all, everything has a weird fit. Rab is ok but I actually really like Mountain Equipment stuff, just seems to fit, work and last a decent length of time.

Girlfriend has an Acr-teyrx down jacket, I've got a Rab. Had to send mine off after 3 years as the main zip had broken. Girlfriend has got a couple of tears in hers. These are both 4 or 5 years old, and have had a lot of use. Including a few 4000/5000m peaks....Splitboarding in -10 and lots of general UK use.

As @footflaps said, the arcteyrx is a level up from the Rab....I've been more than happy with my Rab though.

i have a Rab jacket i wear all day every day, the cuff is slowly detaching itself. next time ill try Mountain Equipment or Arc'teryx

I love my Arc’teryx kit, fits me well but it is pricey. I wear it my Gamma LT softshell as my daily jacket since 2014 and I’ve an Easyrider jacket from 2002 ish and it is still going. There will be issues like glued hems peeling back etc but you can generally claim that on their warranty. Definitely better than Rab so worth seeing if you can justify the price.

never had any rab kit to compare but all the arcteryx kit I've had/got has been pretty robust. never paid full price though, you can generally find it on sale somewhere.

I've never had any Rab kit but I've got an Arcteryx base layer and a Mountain Equipment shirt that I'm wearing atm. Bought both back in 2014, they both get worn regularly, the base layer only in winter months obvs but the shirt gets worn all year round for hiking/biking and general outdoor activities. Neither are showing any signs of wearing out anytime soon.

ME stuff is fab if it fits.  Have a look at Montane too

It's really worth checking out Black Diamond too. I love my BD belay jacket in winter

I have a Arc-teryx Ames Gore-Tex down jacket - medium synthetic fill rather than full on super insulated.

It's the best jacket I own for fit and features - the hood and the way it stows is genuinely superb, doesn't feel fragile at all.

I have a couple of Rab garments, they're really nice and well made but not up there with the same quality of fit or features. (admittedly, they have different purposes.)

It’s really worth checking out Black Diamond too.

Yep, they have some lovely pieces in their range - again nice attention to detail.

It all depends. Rab's really full-on top-end stuff is pretty good, though more compromised than Arc'teryx. I prefer the ME fit on jackets to either, but that's really personal. However... and no-one ever says this, the high-end Berghaus stuff, basically anything badged Extrem or particularly Mtn.Haus is deceptively brilliant and developed working closely with Leo Houlding.

That includes the down stuff, which uses reflective technology and zoned baffles - the Ramche and variants of it are all astonishingly good. Of course Berghaus isn't a cool climbers' brand, so none of the cool climbing dog walkers will buy it, but if you want a down jacket that actually works, it's very, very good.

No-one's mentioned PHD. UK made. Great component parts, particularly the 1000 fill power down, not a very sophisticated cut. Decades behind the far east when it comes to manufacturing tech. Sigh.

Are Arc’teryx really worth the money/ that much better than a Rab for £150-£175 or is it all marketing bollocks?

Arc'teryx is a brilliant functional brands that's very focussed on doing stuff right. That means it costs more. Whether the performance advantage is worth it is down to you really.

If you do go for the Rab Microlight, the Summit which has stitchless construction is more windproof and deceptively warmer as a result than the standard one. if they still make it. But midi-baffled jackets are more efficient when it comes to warmth to weight ratios. Microbaffles mean lots of stitchlines - cold spots and stitch holes that wind goes through - and thinner insulation compartments generally.

Of course it's all junk made in the Far East, unlike Arc'teryx which is, erm, made in the Far East mostly these days bar some of the shells which are still produced in Canada.

ME have a lot of jackets in their range around £200, more research needed
Black Diamond look to be shipping from the EU so will swerve that for now

I have montane and ME down jackets - both good and we’re about 100 quid
Son has TNF - batters it and holding up v well
Wife has Sweet Protection which is lovely

I don’t have any Arcteryx but seem to remember they share links to 7mesh bikewear which is very well designed and cut.

Of course it’s all junk made in the Far East, unlike Arc’teryx which is, erm, made in the Far East mostly these days bar some of the shells which are still produced in Canada.

You get what you pay for with sub contract manufacture, so you can get excellence (at a price) and utter tat. Fairly obvious Arcteryx pay for higher quality control as their stuff is pretty flawless - but it costs a lot more (mainly brand premium I would guess rather than actual manufacturing costs).

One of my favourite fleeces, an Alpkit piece, looks like the seamstress was blind drunk when she did the cuffs, not a straight line anywhere. So they obviously skipped quality control there 😉 You'd have never got that past the QC on the Arcteryx line, it would have been binned.

One advantage of the duff cuffs is I don't mind wearing it for gardening / DIY whereas I'd never do that with Arteryx stuff as it's just too nice. So I wear the lower quality stuff far more...

@davosaurusrex
ME have a lot of jackets in their range around £200, more research needed
Black Diamond look to be shipping from the EU so will swerve that for now

I bought mine in a UK shop!!!

There are lots of UK stockists, Tiso, Eliis Brigham etc. etc.

I got my ME from Sportpursuit

Re: Arc'teryx
It's not as premium as it used to be in that the unlimited guarantee is now more of a sensible light use guarantee.

e.g. the glue on my wife's GTX coat hem has dissolved in a recent wash. As it's little more than 5yrs old they won't honour any guarantee even though it was sold with an allegedly great guarantee. They will however let her send it to Switzerland at her own cost, then assess the garment and offer a repair service which she has to pay for. She will then have to pay for the return postage too.  This is not how you expect a premium brand to honour it's much vaunted guarantee.

By contrast I had a main zip problem on a Patagonia fleece about 7/8 yrs old. They said post it to Portugal, we'll fix it for free and send it back to you. I did that, donated it to an outdoor charity and bought a new one as I was so happy with their service.

Yeah I've read a few complaints about Arc'teryx warranty. If you're paying for a supposedly top brand as well as the name I'd expect a chunk of that to go into warranty support, e.g. Specialized Levos.

I've had RAB, it's okay, but as everyone else says Arc'teryx is better.
I also have a Jottnar jacket (not the Fenrir).
As you notice the difference between Arc'teryx and RAB, then you are going another step up with Jottnar.
I suspect my jacket will outlast me!
The seams, general quality and fit are all great.
Though I think they are assembled in China, the company is British.
If I needed another insulated jacket, then I'd save up a few extra quid and buy another Jottnar.

Can I throw Patagonia into the mix (although use a ME synthetic day to day as it’s a bit too wet up here for everyday down use). Some jackets with recycled material, and ethically sourced down.

I've got a Finisterre down jacket that I live in. It got a thread loose about 6 months after I bought it and I sent it back they fixed it for free.
They are a cert b corp so environmentally sounder too.

+1 Patagonia. I've got a slim-fit down jacket from them and it's perfect for down south. Cheaper than Arc'teryx, pricier than Rab and they at least try to do some good (with 1% for the Planet).

Can't speak of Arc'teryx but my Rab experience is mixed -

bought an Alpine Neoshell & 11 months later with v little use the main zip failed. Rab didn't offer a repair but a new jacket & as they'd stopped doing the Neoshell by then (G'ah!) offered a Latok Alpine (not overly similar but a more heavy weight expensive well reviewed Event jacket) which I accepted.

8 months later (& little use again) the zips failed on the pocket. Again - no repair offered but this time they sent me a random jacket (a purple hill walking 3/4 length heavy duty goretex jacket that weighed pretty much double the Latok & significantly more than the original Neoshell) rather than a discussion or options. After explaining that I wasn't happy with the random jacket they took it back & offered me another Latok Alpine which I accepted.

14 months later the internal pocket glue starts coming away on 2 of the 3 pockets. Its just come back from Rab after a free repair.

So after 4 jackets from Rab in less than 4 years for me its mixed - I'm disappointed with the quality of the 3 jackets I've owned (& worn) that have failed but impressed by the CS (whilst also being slightly annoyed with them at the same time for the ridiculous jacket substitute - great I had a new jacket but not quite the type of jacket I had bought).

Not sure what the issue with zips, Rab & I is but I've got a lot of jackets (Mrs Bit would defo say too many) from a variety of brands - Montane, Howies, Finsterre, NF, Carharrt, Alpkit etc etc but I've had no zip issues on the rest and more issues with the Rab jackets than the rest combined..

Unless its a bargain I don' think I'll buy Rab again.

e.g. the glue on my wife’s GTX coat hem has dissolved in a recent wash. As it’s little more than 5yrs old they won’t honour any guarantee even though it was sold with an allegedly great guarantee. They will however let her send it to Switzerland at her own cost, then assess the garment and offer a repair service which she has to pay for. She will then have to pay for the return postage too. This is not how you expect a premium brand to honour it’s much vaunted guarantee.

Hmm, I had a similar problem with a Theta jacket and sent it to Switzerland. They told me that they couldn't re-glue the glued bit (for some reason) but they sewed that bit and every other similar seam on the jacket for free and sent it back for free, so it seems to be a bit random.

After owning various jackets from all of the above brands over the years and having mixed luck with each brand I decided to give Paramo ago and will never go anywhere else.....they just work.....my favourite being my Torres Alturo jacket.... Toasty warm and not bulky.

As an alternative to all the well-known brands, I’d like to suggest Jottnar. I’ve got some of their stuff, a yakwool base layer, a Magni mid-layer, and a Fenrir down jacket, and I love it. Based in Cardiff, set up by a couple of ex-Marines who had a lot of experience messing around in Norway in winter.
Edit to say I’ve just noticed OP’s mention of the Fenrir! I did get mine in an end of season sale, and they were a bit cheaper then, I paid £170 for mine, but it is a superb jacket, and I think it’s the care and quality that you pay for, not TV product placement, although Steve Backshaw wears one of their top end down jackets in really cold conditions, like when he was mountaineering in Greenland.
https://www.jottnar.com/

https://www.jottnar.com/collections/mens-mid-layer-fleece/products/magni-mens-hooded-fleece

https://www.jottnar.com/collections/mens-down-insulated-jackets/products/fenrir-mens-hooded-down-jacket

https://www.jottnar.com/collections/mens-down-insulated-jackets/products/fjorm-mens-hydrophobic-down-jacket

Patagonia are good in my experience. Not as good as they were and their warranty isn't much to write home about. At one time, if you had a problem they'd repair/replace, period. Age didn't matter. Now they might attempt a repair but no guarantees and no replacement. They may give you a discount on a replacement but don't bank on it.

They make quality gear though. Well designed and are trying to recycle and so on.

Haven't had an arc'teryx jacket but thinking my next on e might be. Got a couple of their hats which are pretty good.

My Arcteryx stuff has been bombproof while other brands include Rab has disintegrated. Mrs NZCols 14 year old jacket was just fixed under warranty - hem had come unglued. Came back like new ! They also fixed a gilet I damaged. It’s expensive but it lasts.

Haglofs are also worth looking at.

Had relatively good warranty support from Arcteryx, jacket was at least 6 years old, had to send to Switzerland at my expense but they fixed and returned for free.

Would have been cheaper to get it fixed locally but I was gambling on them maybe replacing whole jacket 😁

Other than that looks like new, outlasted my eVent Rab Latok by a good number of years (blame that on the eVent though)

I'm a massive Arcteryx fan, have been for years. Definitely better than Rab these days, the fit for me is really good but I don't think the quality is quite what it was 10 years ago.

There are several more ethical choices, some with better environmental credentials than mass produced far eastern kit- Paramo, Keela & Patagonia come to mind, each with a much stronger ethos and less problems lurking down in the supply chain. These days I try to buy better but less often and with an eye on the working conditions of the people making the kit.
At least with Keela I can take it back to the factory in Glenrothes and they'll repair.

If your buying now, I don't know if you can relate to folk saying stuff has lasted 15 years and buy based on that, lots of companies have changed beyond recogmition in 15 years, owners, ethos, manufacturing processes and where their manufactured etc.

I tend to not bother about brands, apart from maybe sticking to ones that I know fit me well, instead I'll buy what I can afford, not lust after the next must have kit.

I used to pretty much exclusively buy Arcteryx. I don't anymore apart from always having the ever present Atom LT and Gamma softshells. Sure, it's nicely finished, but I don't find it lasts any longer or is any more durable than other brands. The warranty isn't what it used to be going by all accounts.

These days I stick with Mountain Equipment and Jottnar predominantly. Both brands just work and I've had great customer service from both.

Rab, I haven't worn for years after buying one of their higher end hardshells and it leaked like a sieve.

I really like Patagonia and their ethical standpoint, but the fit of their gear is really boxy (for my shape).

All worn in anger predominantly in the Cairngorms year round.

The above is a good point, companies and quality change over time. I have Rab jackets and I think they are excellent as are Patagonia. And get Primaloft light, warm and easily washable, down is not great in damp and wet conditions.

My RAB down jacket is 12 years old and sound as a button. Might not be reflective of currents standards though. I also have a similar vintage winter sleeping bag.

I mostly favour ME these days. Good fit. Lasts well. Nice features.

I really like Patagonia and their ethical standpoint, but the fit of their gear is really boxy

Yup, agreed, Paramo is the same. I know Paramo stuff is very well regarded, but it looks terrible, and I ain't paying all that cash for a jacket that looks shite!

I've found Arcteryx to be pretty bombproof, and my relatively recent Beta made in China seems to be just as well made as the 2003 Canadian-made one it replaced. Seems like they still haven't sorted out their UK warranty process though - sending an 8 year old jacket off to Switzerland to have some seam tape reattached was not ideal even though it was sent back as good as new.

Haglofs are also worth looking at.

I suspect there's Haglofs and there's Haglofs. A Haglofs jacket I got to replace a worn-out Arcteryx was in a worse state after one season of ski touring than the old Arcteryx. When your life may depend on it you want something that works so I went back to Arcteryx.

Seems like they still haven’t sorted out their UK warranty process though – sending an 8 year old jacket off to Switzerland to have some seam tape reattached was not ideal even though it was sent back as good as new.

Yeah, given the postage costs I wouldn't even bother in future, there's local places that do really professional repairs, probably for less than the cost of postage to Switzerland! Scottish Mountain Gear for example.

At least with Keela I can take it back to the factory in Glenrothes and they’ll repair

I keep trying to find a reason to buy a new Keela Saxon but sadly have all the waterproofs I'll need for the next wee while. Looks perfect as a bikepacking jacket.

Go full STW and get the Rapha Explore jacket!

I keep trying to find a reason to buy a new Keela Saxon but sadly have all the waterproofs I’ll need for the next wee while. Looks perfect as a bikepacking jacket.

Every time I've seen one they look a bit boxy too, I hate jackets that aren't well fitted tbh, otherwise I'm with you.

I have a Patagonia Down Hoody which I like but it did wear out pretty quickly (circa 2 winters), the fabric around the base where the hem drawstring goes through wore out quicker than I would like, which was pretty disappointing. I'm not sure the fabric is thick enough to be an everyday jacket.  I have other Patagonia kit (waterproof, fleece, hoody, baselayers, even a belt) which has been excellent and hardwearing.

My everyday outside jacket is an Alpkit synthetic fill, which has been worn almost daily during the colder months with various layers depending on the temp. It's been amazing.  Washed it loads with no apparent ill effects.

I also have an older North Face gilet that isn't worn that much as I find it too warm unless it's baltic and then my arms are too cold.

For everyday use in the UK I would be looking at a synthetic jacket rather than a down one.

As above its unforgivable that certain companies (keela, paramo) don't put a bit if effort into making their jackets look a bit better. It's so basic, but overlooked.

@thegeneralist - just because they don't appeal to you it doesn't mean they don't think about it. Paramo have always been a little different as their target customers are hikers, climbers, Mtn Rescue, birdwatchers, etc. They're not designed to walk down the high street and look cool, they're designed to work. Their kit has evolved over the years but it's definitely not as fashionable as other brands

Keela are quite similar in that they supply Ambulance, Mtn Rescue, Police etc. Again the kit is designed to do a job not look pretty

Keela look a lot better than paramo tbf, and lots of companies manage to make kit that both works well and looks good.

Brands are interested in one thing, sales. If folks aren't gonna buy kit because it looks shite, then that's a problem for them.

I find that my Keela Saxon has been one of my best outdoor purchases ever; it's used for all my off-road everything, bike, running and some ski touring in the spring. The shape works for me and matters very little, anyway, as it'll always have a pack over it. It never leaves my main bag. Unless I'm wearing it, of course. I agree with ElShalimo above; it's function over fashion at Keela.

Are you saying that I don't look cool in my Paramo Velez Smock?!

Possibly! 😆

Haha! Wasn't it you that described it as looking like it comes from an indoor market 😂😂😂

I reckon Paramo are going for the 'I think I'm cool because my stuff looks so functional and uncool' market. 😉

Arcteryx stuff is generally a bit more fitted than most IMO, especially other American brands. Dunno about RAB.

they're from Canada

My Paramo Alta III is by miiiiiiiilllllles the best jacket I've ever owned. To be fair to the comments above, it's the only one of theirs I tried on that wasn't boxy (I went to their Wadhurst store to try before buying). In terms of quality it's so much better than the North Face and Haglofs jackets I've owned.

No idea how anyone can wear a down jacket in the UK. Far too warm most of the time and it rains a lot!

No idea how anyone can wear a down jacket in the UK. Far too warm most of the time and it rains a lot!

Maybe the UK is bigger than your neighbourhood and has remarkably differing weather?

Yeah, to some us the concept of 'winter' does actually relate to a real season. You know, with snow and real frost.. I think the coldest I've experienced in Scotland was a confirmed -23C. Doesn't happen every year but happens often enough that a genuinely chunky down jacket is very useful indeed. It's been around -15C at the house on a few occasions in the 20+ years I've lived here in this part of Angus.

Even for you Molly, that's a daft comment!

I am fortunate (maybe) to get a 50% discount off Rab stuff, although i dont like the look of their stuff? So at half of list price is it worth it?

if you are going to use it for its intended  purpose then yes

Well I stopped in at a Cotswold Outdoor yesterday and tried a few on. The Rab Microlight is a very good fit but yeah not same quality as the Arc'teryx and likely not as warm. The Cerium was a bit small in a medium but cut is great, sure the large would fit me perfectly.
Tried on a ME Sensja or something but fit not as good. So I'm down to three options:

Rab Microlight - £170ish. Good fit, quality not quite as good, not as warm. Hydrophobic down
Arc'teryx Cerium - can get a black one for £230. Great fit, quality, not hydrophobic down. 10 denier fabric. Warranty centre in Switzerland, post Brexit issue?
Jottnar Fenrir - not tried on but looks great. Hydrophobic down, UK warranty, 30 denier fabric. £300 though! Can't see how the price hike from £200 a few years back is justified even given costs of everything going up, just aligning themselves closer to Arc'teryx maybe?

I'm leaning towards the Arc'teryx as the middle "sensible option" although not mad keen on black. Just wondering if I'll regret it with the lighter face fabric, lots of brambles around here. The Jottnar does seem to tick all the boxes but £300! Just can't bring myself to do it. Might wait and see if they have a new year sale although they are already sold out of nearly all size large.

TL:DR - after all that rambling I'm asking if anyone can comment on durability between 10 and 30 denier face fabric? If I am going to spend out I want something that is really going to last 5 years plus

I live the cut of Paramo smock. Your mileage may vary

There are days for down in the uk but there are far more where it seems a potential liability.

I dunno, I pretty much live in a Rab down gilet for a lot of the year. I was enjoying the Kilpi down jacket I had before I sent it back and I have a goretex jacket to go over the top if required

I live the cut of Paramo smock.

You are Bender (from Futurama) and ICMFP.

Just buy the yellow one

Lol @ scotroutes!

I'm pretty sure that not much modern kit lasts as long as stuff that we could buy 20 years ago, it's an industry driven by super light weight demands, and breathability, light weight kit just won't last as long, that's a fact, and performance of technical fabrics is bound to drop off over time, surely.

Down jackets are fairly limited here in the west of Scotland too, for obvious reasons. I have one for food stops and camping, but it's a cheap one from Montanes own discount site, was about 70 quid IIRC, I prefer the likes of alpha shell or a fleece combined with a really light windproof layer for being on the move.

Layering is far more versatile.

Just buy the yellow one

For God's sake don't confuse me any further, haven't I already made it abundantly clear that I'm incapable of thinking for myself?

Yellow is 17% warmer. Fact!

Have you ever seen a cold banana?

Hmm maybe modern stuff doesn't last so long,, but I had a Rab jacket in the late 90's and it was pretty awful looking back. Weird fit, rubbish pertex and not very warm either. Not nearly as good as what I have now (ME, Arcteryx, Norrona). Layering is good, but sometimes it's really nice to get a big down jacket on/off quicko

Aye, hence my wee Montane layer lives in a drybag in my pack, for such occasions.

Another vote for ME. Got their Shivling Jacket (around 250 notes?). Nice features, well made, good fit. Actually waterproof. But the zip went funnny. ME don't cover zips on their warranty? That's like a car manufacturer not guaranteeing their engines! So disappointed slightly, as otherwise it's solid. Got loads of RAB stuff. I like the fit of their base layers, but I owned a jacket and it leaked like hell after a season.

@davosaurusrex

I'm not sure if Brexit will have any effect on shipping returns to Switzerland (if you need to, I hope you dont).

The Jottnar stuff is very nice, but I have seen it on sale fairly recently, even for sale on Sportpursuit this year too.

Sorry to chuck another brand in there but I got a Mountain Hardware down jacket early this year. Slim fit, warm as heck, not sure how it would fare in the rain as I wear an Arcterex one if wet, or likely to rain.