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I brought a Berlingo recently from a Dealer. Its still in the dealers warranty period.
When we picked the car up the heating smelt of curry ! We thought it might pass but its really bad everytime the heating is on. After doing a bit of research it looks like its a leaking heating matrix.
Its been back to the dealer today who says he cant find any leaks so it must be a pin hole leak somewhere and has stuck some radweld in, then kept saying that he can replace it as a good price !
I am going in tomorrow to get the car and have a chat, Do you think that a leaking heating matrix is something that should be repaired (ie replace said heating matrix) under warranty ? I can tell he does not think so and would appieciate knowing where I stand before going in.
dunno but an advert for Alpine Elements came up when I was reading this so maybe they are trying to take you for a ride???
Rachel
Phone Trading Standards and ask them rather than the usual numpties on here (myself included)
p.s. I think the grey area is that it is speculation that there is a fault with the heater matrix. Maybe the previous owner coughed a load of Bombay mix down one of the vents?
If its faulty he should fix it if thats waht you want. If its faulty and you are unhappy return it and get your money back. ( assuming you have not had it long)
I certainly would not accept radweld as an answer.
1) leaks don't get better by themselves, you'll find a car with a puddle in the footwell one day.
2) the dealer has to rectify the problem - I think you could argue radweld is a temporary fix.
Be firm say that you believe there is a fault with the car (which by offering to replace the matrix they have acknowledged) that should be fixed at no cost to you. Don't take no for an answer.
Try and be there when there are other customers about and make sure they hear what you;re saying.
Do you think that a leaking heating matrix is something that should be repaired (ie replace said heating matrix) under warranty ? I can tell he does not think so...
Of course he doesn't want to do it - in most cars it's an absolute PITA to do and could well lead to further niggly rattles if it all isn't put back together properly (assuming the dash has to come out to access it).
I'd be asking for the cash back and walk away if you have the chance.
Yes it should be covered by warranty. It doesnt suffer from wear & tear, the part has broken, failed prematurely - assuming the car is not that old or very high mileage?
Pretty high mileage but he did offer a warranty knowing that.......
I think I need to push for a full repair or refund.
get refund and run like...
Do NOT accept Radweld as a fix. It plays no part in the Citroen servicing schedule.
Your problem is you will need to be certain that it is the matrix before the dealer will replace it. How long do you have left on your warranty? How high a mileage?
Do NOT accept Radweld as a fix. It plays no part in the Citroen servicing schedule.
I'd be interested to see what Citroen think about that up at head office. That's a back street garage bodge, not a repair.
If you accept a repair I'd want it documenting too, so you've got it in black and white that it's been done properly.
[i]Do NOT accept Radweld as a fix[/i]
Of course Radweld is a fix, its what any of us would do if we had a 'leak' on a car, and it wasn't warrantied.
Had heater matrix replaced on my transit van under warranty, but had it from new so it was under the original 3yr warranty. I know for a fact it's an Absolute bastard of a job on the transit, whole dash out etc so that may be why they're not keen to do it!!
Heater matrix on most cars and vans is a crap job it seems to be one of those parts they fit first and everything else around it. Make sure if he replaces it you see the old one and mark it so when you see it you can tell it has definately been replaced.
Is it a Citroen dealer you've bought it from and has the car got a Citroen manufacturers warranty or is it a third party used car dealer warranty?
If the vehicle is still in it's official Citroen manufacturers warranty, I'd be calling their customer services on 0844 463 3500.
You might get a better response from contacting Citroen direct. I used to work for Ford and we always had to get the manufacturer to authorise any warranty repairs. I'd imagine that Citroen would be the same.
Right....
The radweld worked, for two days and the leak is now back. The Dealer is having none of it, says its wear and tear and to be honest almost got aggresive about me wanting it repaired or a refund.
I have been speaking to consumer direct, I think it all comes down to the fact that the heating matrix failing is not wear and tear. I cant get anyone from Citroen (helpful as they were) to say if it is or not.
Anyone any ideas ? Would you regard a heating matrix leaking as wear and tear ? its done just under 100k (its just a run about) He has admitted that it had the fault when we brough it. (or at least that you could smell something odd)
Visit a few aftermarket warranty websites and look to see if they class a Heater matrix as 'wear and tear'.
Start with warrantydirect.
Why? This will give you a good idea what these sort of companies would class a heater matrix as.
Could you clarify for how long after purchasing the car did you notice the heater matrix problem (not just the smell) but also at what date/days in did you notify/agree there was a leak/issue with the heater matrix with this dealer?
Do you have any communication written down?
I've successfully rejected two cars due to faults. Anytime I have had any issue with a car bought from a dealer I have used fax or email as communication (or as backup 'as discussed on the phone').
What is the year and actual mileage- could you be specific?
I'm guessing here but my spiderman-like powers are telling me you've bought from a very small indie dealer or someone who trades by appointment?
Its from a "proper" dealer, lots of cars for sale, established etc. I wont name names but can email a link to their site.
02 plate, just under 100k. I have kept a log of everything and will be writing letters from now on.
When we brought the car we could smell it, thought it was just a smell from the old owner of something. Gave it a bloody good clean etc but it was just as bad.
Googled "Berlingo curry smell" and found lots about heater matrix leaks etc. So reported it to them (two weeks after buying it) who agreed it probably had a leak and did the redweld thing.
Now he says its wear and tear and wont do anything about it.
Pretty high mileage but he did offer a warranty knowing that.......
What does the warranty say it covers?
Most dealers will only warranty the usual items like engine, gearbox, clutch etc on high mileage second hand cars, and then only for a limited period.
He says the warranty covers everything apart from wear and tear
Also, because my other half haggled a good price (£2,200 down to £1550), he is saying that we should be happy with what we have....
So reported it to them (two weeks after buying it)
Regardless its within his duty under sales of goods act. Which is extra and beyond any warranty.
The issue is (legally) what could be classed as 'reasonable' given a cars age and condition sold.
For instance if you bought a Rover 214 from a dealer for a reasonable price - you really couldn't expect it to be 100% given its age and condition.
If hes sold you a warranty (additional?) or provided you with a warranty. Do you have the terms and conditions to hand?
A heater matrix isn't wear and tear. An air conditioning unit however could be seen as wear and tear (as it requires regular servicing and attention).
Repost it on here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=10&mid=0
Question- he put radweld in. He obviously knows he has some sort of obligation.
He says the warranty covers everything apart from wear and tear
A very generous warranty on a high mileage vehicle, and the £650 drop in price is a hefty discount on a cheap car too. Sounds to me as if he was desperate to shift it.
You're going to have a tough job winning this one, no moving parts in a heater matrix so no real "wear & tear" and as its a high mileage car it can be argued that these things are to be expected.
Good luck
no moving parts in a heater matrix
I agree 100%
If the warranty doesn't cover non moving parts what is left for it to cover.
I can understand the frustration of the dealer as the labour bill for replacement alone will certainly wipe out any profit made on the business but that's his problem....
Could you maybe offer to contribute to the costs? At the end of the day it's a 9 year old car with 100k on the clock, and it was £1500. Maybe as a last option anyway?
If the warranty doesn't cover non moving parts what is left for it to cover
Quite, I failed to fully engage brain whilst typing and didn't read what I'd typed back carefully.
Meant to say no moving parts in heater matrix so dealer can't really argue Wear & tear, but dealer can argue these things happen in high mileage cars, and that it was priced accordingly. IMO its a faulty component and should be replaced if the warranty terms allow.
Offering a warranty is a risk on his part, he hopes nothing goes wrong during this period; buying high mileage vehicle a risk on the OP's part.
Like I said good luck.
Although it is 100k/02 - why the **** did the dealer offer a warranty? Its his own fault.
How does one 'wear out' a heater matrix, exactly?
If it's faulty he has a duty to repair or replace it appropriately outside of the warranty...assuming that you raised the fault within a specific timeframe.
If you've had it a while and it's still under warranty, phone the warranty people and ask them.
"How does one 'wear out' a heater matrix, exactly"
Its French.
Who's the warranty with? Him or an external company?
Its with him
Post on pistonheads
Its nothing to do with the warranty - its your rights in law.
Gt real legal advice on this - however I think:
Return the car physically to him - you should have done this immediately. Hand him the keys, ask for your money back. If he wont return your money its legal time
The other approach is to go up the chain of management if it is a part of a big concern.
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/cars/
Thats what I am thinking TJ, go in tomorrow and give him the car and ask for it back repaired or a refund...
Cougar - Member
How does one 'wear out' a heater matrix, exactly?
At just over 8 years old the only way for it to have "worn out" is if its not had coolant in it which inhibts rust. Our second car is just coming up to 13 years old and still on its original rad and heater matrix. The millage wont have a huge effect on the matrix as the fluid will be sitting in it since it was first filled. I would expect the heater matrix to last the life of the car as its not in a possition to get damaged unlike the rad.
Are you sure its just the heater matrix? Google Head gasket and look for any symptoms. Why? You also add Radweld in to try and plug potential HG problems (a bad cure).
The only symptom is the curry smell when the heating is on, heating off with the fan on full blast and its fine. Not loosing much coolant so I think its a very small leak.
Its a real shame because its the only thing wrong with it, considering its age. Its in pretty much perfect condition inside and out, the engine runs very well, great clutch andc gearbox etc. Its a great car for what I need (bikes, dogs and DIY duties) and is perfect for camping etc with my lad.
Have you checked around the block? Seams - where the head meets? It might look like a crusty-dried bit (almost salt-like)
I'll take a butchers hook now.
Honestly, have a good look round. If you can see any evidence of coolant loss elsewhere just say to the dealer - look could you just take the car back please (And dont mention what you've seen).
Deffo looks like the matrix..
Some progress, Managed to get the chap to agree to a full repair with me paying only £100 (I have had qoutes from other garages in the region of £400) and a promise of a free MOT when its due.
Cant ask more than that really.
Thanks for all the advice all !
Make sure you see the old matrix. MARK the matrix with a silver pen etc innocuously so only you would spot it. He might be bloody feeding it another bottle of radweld otherwise.
A more mechanically minded mate is going to mark it up for me later.
How have you got on with this? All sorted now?