[Closed] ISOfix - what's the point?!

Most cars have it tho.

First time I saw an isofix seat it was my neighbours' Civic. The thing clipped in reasonably well once you figured out, although it was somewhat fiddly. But it WOBBLED. There was play in it.

When I install either of my seatbelt only seats, I do it well and they are rock solid. Not massively impressed. Although of course, it is dead secure once it's passed the wobble bit.

I second the seat belt, absolutely solid and can be moved to any car. Isofix can be used with a belt if required but I can never get them as tight.

Totally agree with molgrips. Couldn't believe how wobbly Isofix seats were when we bought ours. Ended up with a maxicosi seatbelt job that is solid as rock.

The ubiquitous Maxi Cosi Cabriolet can be used with a seatbelt sans base, if you need to pop it in someone else's car. But it's really wobbly then tho!

I would quite like a seat for the middle of our cars now she's old enough to appreciate looking out of the front - but our seatbelt ones don't fit very well on the middle lump. I wish there was an isofix one too but neither car has points in the middle.

Our seat is isofix with a top tether and it's rock solid. Tomorrow will show how solid it is with the seatbelt, but I agree - past experience has shown seatbelt ones are just as solid.

I had no idea what this was till week, then my sister in law dug it out of the seats on my 99 206, seemed to work perfectly although the seat had a floor prop too.

Very convenient when stopping frequently - if junior's asleep it's a piece of pee to clip him in and out. Also, SWMBO's car is quite low and it's much easier to get him in and out of it.

I agree with all the comments above though...

ISOFIX makes it easier/simpler to fit the seat correctly but it's no safer than a correctly fitted non ISOFIX seat.

Unless you get a rear facing seat (even above one years old) , you aren't as safe as you could be.

http://www.rearfacing.co.uk

I'm only going on about this because I sincerely believe rear facing seats as 2nd/3rd options for kids are vital and bizarrely not very common in the UK - we had to import ours from Sweden.

I think rear facing seats are safer, but I don't put my lass in one for the same reason they don't make cars with grown-up seats facing backwards (which would also be safer)

🙂

Aren't rear facing seats compulsory law by for babies in the UK? Or are you only talking about older kids?

Anyway, 57 plate focus here. No ISOfix. Don't care. Wife's fiesta does tho. But we just use seatbelts - seems perfectly secure, if a little faffy (focus seatbelt is only just long enough to go round the seat).

If your isofix seats are wobbly, then they are definately not fitted correctly.
We've got a maxi cosy and a britax, one in each car and they're both completely solid. No forward or lateral movement at all. They have adjustment on the clips to account for different seat thickness'. There is absolutely no way you can get a belted seat anywhere near as secure as an isofix one. Especially for lateral movement.
Read the which test, hardly any of the belted seats meet their standards

As above - portability of the seat(s) is the massive bonus of Isolfix over belted seats - especially if used with a compatible pushchair.

He is talking about up to 3-4 I think.

If your isofix seats are wobbly, then they are definately not fitted correctly.

It was fitted correctly, there was just play in the connecting rods. I examined it thoroughly. It moved side-to-side about half an inch, so not a problem really.

There is absolutely no way you can get a belted seat anywhere near as secure as an isofix one.

Ours is rock solid. Cos I do it right 🙂

As above - portability of the seat(s) is the massive bonus of Isolfix over belted seats - especially if used with a compatible pushchair.

Not so. You can get seatbelt bases that take the same seats as isofix ones, and they clip into pushchairs the same way. Pushchair integration is not related to isofix.

molgrips - Member
I think rear facing seats are safer, but I don't put my lass in one for the same reason they don't make cars with grown-up seats facing backwards (which would also be safer)

Not so. You can get seatbelt bases that take the same seats as isofix ones, and they clip into pushchairs the same way. Pushchair integration is not related to isofix.

Aye our belted seat is ancient (i.e. third hand) and it fits into a pram system just fine.

[i]*thinks: maybe we should just merge with mumsnet*[/i]

Didn't know that - can't say I have ever seen them

example (probably the most popular):-
[url= http://www.maxi-cosi.com/ot-en/carseats/baby/easyfix ]http://www.maxi-cosi.com/ot-en/carseats/baby/easyfix[/url]

I think rear facing seats are safer, but I don't put my lass in one for the same reason they don't make cars with grown-up seats facing backwards (which would also be safer)

You haven't read that article have you?

Kids necks aren't strong enough to take an impact - hence needing rear facing seats.

I'm surprised you find it amusing Mol TBH.

[i]Government advice to turn your child forward facing at 9 months is putting their life at risk. In other European countries, children stay rear facing until they are 4 years old.
British child seat manufacturers are refusing to sell their safest products in the UK because they've decided that British parents don't want them. They export the seats to Scandinavia but will not make them available here.
Rear facing group 1 seats are 5 times safer in a frontal collision. They protect the neck and head by distributing the force along the back of the seat and are much more effective at protecting internal organs.[/i]

An extract from the BMJ report:

[i]Many babies are switched from a rear facing car seat to a forward facing seat at 9 kg (8 months of age for a boy on the 50th centile)
Excessive stretching or even transection of the spinal cord can result if a child is involved in a head-on crash while in a forward facing car seat
Rear facing seats are safer than forward facing seats for children under 4 years old
Parents and guardians should be advised to keep young children in rear facing seats for as long as possible[/i]

If you're worried about forward facing seats, you'll hate this...
[img] [/img]

It's a 'car cot' - a friend has one and to be honest i'd be fearful about putting my boy in it. I'm just not happy about a baby lying sideways in the car :-/

DrP

Ford are rubbish as far as isofix goes... and so are their dealers (well, Polar in Bradford and Hartwell/Polar in Huddersfield were). When we bought our Mondeo, we were told by the Bradford lot that if it wasn't fitted, it was easily retrofittable. The Huddersfield branch didn't even know what isofix was - about 5 or 6 sales staff and no idea. Had to look it up and then they reckoned the only way you could tell was if the isofix label was sewn into the seats. No idea about just having a poke about for the metal loops...

Anyway, we bought a Mondeo on the advice of these two branches saying it was retrofittable (we didn't buy the car from either of them though). Took it to get looked at, "no sorry we can't do that". I was raving. Took it for a second opinion though at Lawtons of Tadcaster who were excellent and they confirmed that the Polar boys were either lying or just clueless.

Next car will definately have isofix - as a comparison, our 2000 Polo GTI does have it / 2005 Mondeo ST doesn't... Go figure.

DrP - we looked at a Jane travel system that had one like that - I wasn't keen at all.

BM has ISOFIX, the Suzuki doesn't - we have a car seat in each, both non ISOFIX, both rock solid. Means they hardly ever have to be moved so once in, they stay in.

our Maxi Cosi ISOfix is rock solid, doesnt budge a mm, it is however a bit of a faff to fit due to the ISOfix brackets being so buried in the back seat

Have to say the Maxicosi seatbelt base we have is great- rock solid. It's clever in that you first tighten the seatbelt as much as you can, then operate a clamp in the base which tighens it even further and voila.

I hate the attitude of equipment manufacturers along the lines of "you can't put a price on your child's safety"- and promptly just whack a massive price on what is deemed to be the safest thing at the time. Upgrading both our cars to ISOfix, plus the extra cost of ISOfix bases which then have to either be changed when she needs a bigger seat, or spend even more on something that would be compatible with a bigger seat, was offensive, in a financial sense.

Daveyboywonder...have a good feel around the lower edge of the seat back, ours has them but they are inside the seat covering. According to fordmondeo.org the trick is to neatly cut the fabric to expose them.

Isofix is convenient if having to swap seats around. IMO no safer than a correctly belted seat. My two boys (then aged 2 & 3) were in their Isofix equipped seats when our car overturned last summer. The car we were in had no Isofix, but they were belted in securely & both were left dangling upside down, seats firmly held in place. Boys completely unharmed but for some scratches from flying glass.

Not known the seat to wobble around when Isofixed in. They normally click onto the latches, then the seats ratchets backwards. Our youngest has one with a big floor post thing. Weighs a bloody ton.

My 06 Focus didn't have isofix fitted as standard so I bought the part which cost £12 and fitted it myself which consisted of bolting the part in place with the two included bolts. Wasn't really an issue and my local Ford dealer had it in stock.

My 09 Mondeo has isofix as standard.

Once fitted isofix was perfectly solid (Maxi Cosi isofix base)

With the bigger child seats (rather than the baby ones), we now don't use the isofix - simply because they're a lot more expensive and we rarely take the seats out of the car so the extra time to fit isn't important.

Is having your child rigidly attached to the seat actually a good idea?
Surely having a little bit of movement is better?
We had the Jane travel system and it was great, never had any issues with the baby cot thing (lies across the rear seats) moving about and the seat he's in now is seatbelt anchored and its fine.
Only time we had an issue was with a bit of "sprited" cornering in the local tescos and mum hadn't attached the seat properly and it tipped over to one side. Little lad thought it was hilarious, but i want best pleased. Lesson learnt there! Check before setting off!
I personally dont see a need in getting a car just 'cos it fits the latest seat fixing or vice versa.

I used to fit child seats about 5 years ago (when I worked for a well-known motoring/biking/parts store). Isofix was just starting to emerge in a small number of cars (SEAT were one of the first I think). Problem was, each car manufacturer, and each child seat manufacturer, had their own idea of what isofix should be. It was standard to have the two connection points at the back of the seat but beyond that there were heaps of differences. This is probably why everyone has their own experience of how secure an isofix seat is compared to a seat-belt-fitted seat.

What got me was the parents being very insistant on which seat they wanted (because such-and-such say it's the best) but were not bothered that sometimes the chosen seat didn't fit properly in their car. I used to try to convince them to try a few different seats to see which offered the most secure fit for the seats in their car. Of course, the parents always wanted the seat that had been recommended by Richard and Judy...

Have to say the Maxicosi seatbelt base we have is great- rock solid. It's clever in that you first tighten the seatbelt as much as you can, then operate a clamp in the base which tighens it even further and voila.

One last thing, all of you that just leave your seats in the car (for convenience, lazyness, whatever), it's worth re-fitting them every few journeys as they can work themselves loose.

Can't say I didn't learn anything in my part-time job...

The point of ISOfix is to reduce the chance of incorrect childseat installation. Seatbelt childseats can achieve the same performance if fitted correctly but it's when they aren't fitted correctly problems arise.

Maybe there isn't large enough demand for rear facing childseats for older children in this country.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't buy second hand. Can you guarantee it hasn't been in an accident already?

Is having your child rigidly attached to the seat actually a good idea?

Yes yes yes yes yes!

When accelerations of 20g, 40g or more are applied the movement could be amplified and one of the major jobs of the seat is to prevent contact with hard points of the car like windows, doors, pillars.

You haven't read that article have you?

I read some of what you posted last time it came up. It said that in Sweden 6 kids died in forward facing seats in whatever year it was, 2008 I think, whereas 4 kids died in rear facing seats. That didn't seem statistically significant to me. How many accidents were there all year?

To be honest, the tone of the article put me off. It had a Daily-mail-esque why are they allowed to get away with this type thing, which often seems to be the case where kids are involved.

We have a car seat that goes from sideways to rear facing to forward facing as the kid grows up. We had it rear facing until she got too physically big - about 1 ish and 12.5kg or so, and looking very cramped in it.
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Oh yeah, I wouldn't buy second hand. Can you guarantee it hasn't been in an accident already?

To be clear, when I say our seat is 3rd hand, I mean we inherited it from my brother-in-law after his two kids were finished with it. You're right - buying second-hand without any idea of the history could be bad (I believe NCT don't sell seats for this reason)

Mol - "the" article? There are many including a full BMJ report. "Daily Mail-esque?" Come on now, you are just trying to reassure yourself again. Proper rear facing seats sit far back enough that kids have leg room - they are used up to aged 4ish all over Europe.

You need to READ the facts, not just skim over them and pick out the bits that suit your opinions. And if the BMJ report is "Daily Mail-esque" then my name is Daisy.

http://www.rearfacing.co.uk/facts.php

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/338/jun11_2/b1994

Come on now, you are just trying to reassure yourself again

No, I'm not bothering to read all the stuff because its tone put me off. There's a difference 🙂 The rearfacing.co.uk one was daily-mail-esque - any article titled THE FACTS is already trying to ram itself down my throat, and has an evangelical zeal about it that tends to make me doubt its perspective.

I did read those two articles. You read my posts too. So that's that. We had our kid rear-facing until she no longer fit in it, because it was manifestly safer. We could have bought a larger rear-facing seat, but we didn't. Not entirely sure there would be enough room in the car for some of the seats I am seeing on google, but I haven't checked.

So show us your kids' seat then Surf.

What surprises me is how many people have kids in front seats in the UK. We're told to never ever to do this in the USA. Things do vary so much from country to country it's got so much to do with the culture and what people have researched because of accidents and publicity of such accidents.

This is the Britax one in the BM - actually got it fitted a little better now. Yes they do take up a fair bit of room but it's worth it IMO.

Now have a seat protector (so his muddy feet don't trash the seatback!) and a mirror so we can see him easily from the front:

[IMG] [/IMG]

Yeh, read that too about Ford burying the mounts in the seats (stupid idea). Definately not there, had it checked by a (decent) Ford dealer after I'd read about that. From what they were saying, its almost as if as Fords roll off the production line, they pick and choose whether to shove isofix in them or not...

guitarmanjon - isofix just starting to emerge 5 years ago? My Polo is 10 years old and has it!

Looks nice Surf. Def more leg room there than what we had in ours. Can someone still be safely sitting in the front passenger seat too or has that seat become un-usable? Knees in the dashboard?

I'm more concerned about Meg not being able to see anything if she was in a rear facing seat... Especially as she has been used to looking out front for a while now.

I would actually prefer her to be in the middle seat too, but the seats we have are way wobbly when I've tried it.

Mrsgrips - the seat in front is totally useable but being a fairly compact 3 series BM, it's tighter than usual. Seat back needs to be nearish vertical and it's three notches from fully back. Mrs Matt is fine in it (she's 5'7").

In a really small car, it's too tight TBH.

It's def something to look into. Thanks.

Ours is also about the "deepest" model you can get - others take up less space. They're now available at a few UK dealers; in fact just after I'd paid not far off £350 for ours (imported), I noticed a couple of UK shops selling them for well under £300 - DOH!!

Doh Indeed 🙂