I'm a huge fan of Shimano components. I love their smoothness and reliability... my XTR M960 rear mech is 5 years and 3 frames old, even used on salty commutes at one point. But now my XT brakes are failing, I am annoyed that I cannot seem to get a piston/seal kit or similar to make them last another 3 years or so. It's a huge waste, and I care about the impact of effectively disposable parts.
It seems to me that this is a business plan, all about the money, and makes me think that I should use Hope brakes - made in the UK and fully serviceable. Really, only brakes, shifters and rear mechs are worth repairing (I think). So am I missing something or are Shimano really forcing replacement rather than repair? I don't like throwing away parts for the sake of a rubber seal!
Yep - there's always great availability of Hope spare parts. I wonder why that is?
Wot Druidh said. I've got spares from Madison before, just ask.
no luke - the seals he seeks are not availible ... im of the same opinion as him
shimano brakes planned obscelecance ****ing sucks !
Are you implying that Hope brakes are not reliable? 😉 Or that it's because they are in the UK? I'll ask madison for seal kits tomorrow but I have already been told by LBS it's a new caliper...
There are no seal kits for Shimanos. As for the relative reliability of other makes...
[i]Yep - there's always great availability of Hope spare parts. I wonder why that is? [/i]
Probably because they make to order, therefore they can just make it and get it to you in a week or so. Whereas with something thats imported, its all about whether they'll actually sell any, and when.
Also with a lot of spares, labour is so expensive that its often only worth repairing if your doing it yourself.
Hope are toss. Got a set of Mono Minis on one bike at the minute and they're unconvincing. I've had 4 sets of Hopes and they've been the most unreliable things I've ever had.
Having spent my day at work wrestling with an Avid that ended up being totally knackered I don't think the alternatives are any better.
irrespective druidh - id rather a set of brakes i need to replace the seals on once a year/2 years than a set of brakes that last till the first steep downhill and die of cooked seals - im not even a brake dragger - it was just a steep hill...
my hope c2s needed one set of seals in 3 years some new seals and they were like new , the e4s that replaced them succumbed to salt corrosion on the pistons after 5 years on 2 bikes and my m4s were sold looking and working like new after 4 years.
my xts are scrap after 3 years
lso with a lot of spares, labour is so expensive that its often only worth repairing if your doing it yourself.
True but replacement of a caliper OR a lever is at least as much labour but more on parts. The least labour intensive way is a whole new brake... for the sake of a rubber seal!
Trial rat - that's exactly why I am thinking of going Hope!
Still using my Hope M4s from 2003!! As good as new!
Shimano stuff is good in fact excellent when new, and super mass produced. Its part of the use and throw away 2010 "eco consumer culture" that thinks recycling is better than repairing.
Hope stuff is repairable and lasts almost for ever...a bit like the good ol "dualit toaster", but with a bit more tech. Trouble is that many people dont have the basic skills to understand how things work let alone repair them!
Dont get me wrong though I use shimano gears, but it saddens me when we have to chuck out a mech that cant be repaired or a casette that just has the small cogs worn..in my view a waste.
To be honest it doesn't bother me: My last Shimano Saints lasted 6years, and that's certainly bar better than any Hope brakes I've owned. Just replaced them with some SLX too.
If replacing them every 6 years is the price to pay for excellent reliability day in day out, then that's fine with me.
I've had to get a new SLX calliper as I can't sort out the piston and it refuses to come out and play.
Not happy, as I'd imagine the seal/piston arrangement can't be expensive, and having to bin the whole unit seems a waste 🙁
If Shimano supplied the small parts I'm sure they would go on forever... but as I disagree with the wastefulness, I think the moral thing to do is not buy their products. Trouble is I want to buy their stuff! Hmm. I wonder if Hope will ever forge instead of CNCing...
I work on design and development of car brakes. I can tell you that we are very careful of what we make serviceable and what parts we sell for servicing. This is mainly to avoid 1) stupid people rebuilding their brakes dangerously and hurting themselves 2) the same people suing us for the injury or whatever they got due to their stupidity.
So it's done to protect the manufacturer and the owner - from each other and themselves 😆
No offence is intended to anyone rebuilding their brakes - there are plenty of smart people quite capable of doing it safely but also there are those that can't be trusted 🙄
you can buy o-rings in a million and 1 different sizes, surely there's one that fits?
swalsey, you say your brakes are 'failing' - what's wrong with them?
Is this thread not already in progress? 
Just to point out the obvious, Shimano complete parts (ie lever, caliper) are cheap, so if you have a sticky seal in the caliper, buy a compatible cheap caliper (£30 for SLX, which has the same seals and pistons as all the other recent Shimano calipers, and comes with a set of pads too) and you're effectively getting 2 complete sets of pistons and seals for £15- about £3 more than Hope would charge.
And then take into account the fact that you pay far more in the first place for most things that compete on performance.
JAG - Yup, I can see a point there, though IMO it should be up to us to decide on our competence (Darwinism 😆 )
ahwiles - the calipers are leaking from the pistons, contaminating pads for fun half way into a ride and thus not stopping the bike or my girlfriend!
I think I'll hunt for the correct spare after replacing the brakes, if I can fix them I will!
Someone on yesterday's thread stating that shimano type seals are not difficult to get.
You can get every spare apart from pistons as I somehow scoured one on my XT. Went to the local bike shop and looked at the parts list everything apart from the piston 🙁
looking at a parts list is different to whats actually availible though !
Just to point out the obvious, Shimano complete parts (ie lever, caliper) are cheap, so if you have a sticky seal in the caliper, buy a compatible cheap caliper (£30 for SLX, which has the same seals and pistons as all the other recent Shimano calipers, and comes with a set of pads too) and you're effectively getting 2 complete sets of pistons and seals for £15- about £3 more than Hope would charge.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
I've tried with Hope brakes, as indeed I've tried with Avid. Both have proved unreliable on many occasions and I now have no faith in either.
I will stick to either Shimano or, despite their so-called "wooden" feel, Hayes. Both these manufacturers have proved reliable and easily servicable.
Me likey.
If I was a brake manufacturer, I'm not sure I'd want to sell service kits for the 'home mechanic' either.
I stick with Hayes, any part you need you can get, job done.
Just to point out the obvious, Shimano complete parts (ie lever, caliper) are cheap, so if you have a sticky seal in the caliper, buy a compatible cheap caliper (£30 for SLX, which has the same seals and pistons as all the other recent Shimano calipers, and comes with a set of pads too) and you're effectively getting 2 complete sets of pistons and seals for £15- about £3 more than Hope would charge.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
if you find a bargain they are - RRP is about 80 quid for a complete caliper !
SLX calipers are £49.95 RRP with an adaptor and pads.
Hope are toss. Got a set of Mono Minis on one bike at the minute and they're unconvincing. I've had 4 sets of Hopes and they've been the most unreliable things I've ever had.Having spent my day at work wrestling with an Avid that ended up being totally knackered I don't think the alternatives are any better.
Have you ever thought that maybe it's you?
aye so 100 quid for a pair of calipers on a pair of brakes that can be had for how much ?