[Closed] Specialized Turbo Levo - Long term reliability ?

Ive had a 2017 Levo, 2018 Kenevo and currently have a 2020 Levo (all been expert models)

out of those 3 bikes, two have had replacement motors under warranty, these were bikes that were used all year round in all weathers and the motors never died but the bearings became rough so were replaced under warranty

Battery wise Ive never had any issues

Motor bearings can go due to poor cleaning technique, people use power washers on the motor which will kill the bearings and they are not serviceable, the motor wiring harness on the 2020 models can crack and cause a short circuit, Specialized have a revised version which fixes this issue, a good dealer will make sure that version is fitted before selling you the bike

With any e-bike a good dealer and warranty are key

The best dealers around are Chris Reilly @ Berkshire cycles and Richard Butters at Race Co Cycles

Ive always used Chris @ Berkshire Cycles (AKA the Levo King) not only does he give you around 1k off the RRP of a 2020 Expert, if you are unlucky to have any problems Chris does same day warranty repairs, just call him up or just pop in and he will get you back on the bike a.s.a.p he keeps stock of motors and batteries and if he has run out he will strip a display bike or drive to Specialized HQ to get one for you

Specialized's warranty is 2nd to none, they have been great when there has been any problems, they listen to riders and work with you to solve issues to get you riding again
If you are on FaceBook then join the Levo & Kenevo UK page

I'm thinking of buying from Leisure Lakes in Bury as they are closest dealers of E Bikes to me and I think buying as close to home as possible is essential for warranty issues

What sort of mileages have these bikes been doing between motor replacements ??

Once the 2 year warranty on the motor is up how much would it cost to fix these myself ? Or is it often a case of just sell the Bike once it's warranty is up ?

Is overall maintenance time & costs a huge step up from a regular Full Suspension MTB or just slight ?

have a mooch on here https://www.emtbforums.com/community/forums/specialized.4/

A couple of things to consider and you'll be fine:

1) Buy from a local Specialized dealer if you can, rather than a big online store or chain. The warranty support from the big 'S' is excellent, but it'll happen quicker from a dedicated dealer with the training/tools/software etc than one of the big chains who are juggling lots of brands.

2) Treat the motor and control unit in the same way you would other components that need care on a bike, mainly avoiding jet washing / power hosing those areas of the bike, the same as you would for hubs, bearings, suspension seals etc. They're well sealed but will suffer from jet washing. A small rear mudhugger type guard is also a wise purchase for a Levo/Kenevo as it keeps the motor area clean.

3) Go ride and enjoy, they're brilliant bikes and the Mission Control App allows you to fine tune the motor to give you anything from the full shuttle experience, right down to a near normal bike feel, and anything in between with the press of a button.

Once the 2 year warranty on the motor is up how much would it cost to fix these myself ? Or is it often a case of just sell the Bike once it’s warranty is up ?

Motors are £750, (504wh) batteries are £700. I got both for half that, going through the concept store I bought the bike from. They both come with a 2 year warranty. I think you can get the motor repaired by an independent for about £250, not sure what warranty is offered on that though.

What sort of mileages have these bikes been doing between motor replacements ??

First one went after 2000 miles, second after 800. Battery (well, the power switch) went after 3000.

If engine failure is a worry.

From memory Bosch have a rolling warranty, so if you need a new motor you get another 2 years from when it is fitted, whereas Shimano and Specialized are fixed.

P.

i have a carbon turbo levo.
done around 2000kms on it. never had one single issue with it, ridden in all weathers
highly reccommend Race co cycles .
Speak to Rich for a good deal

Double check for the newer ones, but my Specialized was a rolling warranty.

I bought a Levo Expert in 2016 and have had £11,000 worth of warranty replacements including six motors! Only Spesh would shell out that sort of cash.

I've a 2019 Levo (2020 is the same except components), i've had the power harness issue, but that was my own fault for checking the case for mud ingress (there was very little) & disturbing what had been a working cable. This week I've had a motor failure at 1100 miles, it back with Race Co (again buy from a LBS), as it would still turn on but give no power support. I suspect it's a motor belt that snapped, so I don't know if they'll replace the motor or just the belt (Race Co are open, but operating 'behind closed doors' operation).
Previously I had a shimano motor ebike that was broken out of the box, and when returned to the mail order place, the manufacturer and shimano were so unhelpful, the mail order shop gave me another (shimano motor) brand bike. I had 18months of fun on that, with minor blips when the battery mounting became loose but my initial experience (8-10 weeks of warranty waiting) means I'm more than happy to spend that bit more on a bike from a good LBS (have I mentioned Race Co being very good?) over any internet deal. Then you hear of nitemare stories of the likes of YT, who don't believe Shimano UK are trust worthy enough to supply their software codes, so will need the complete bike returned to Germany to be fixed.

I personally know 6 people with 19/20 Levo's and another 2 with '20 Kenevo's, none of them are complaining about issues or would prefer another bike. I wish the Levo SL was cheaper, as I find them very interesting.

PS: I would also note that Specializeds warranty extends the 2nd owners.
PPS: That 700wh battery is a god send, having experienced the e-bike specific issue of "range anxiety"

Have a 2018 Levo, which has done roughly 4000km. Ridden in all weathers and definitely not mollycoddled, not washed more than a dozen times in that. Had an LED stuck on red in the battery pack, replaced immediately. No motor issues yet, bearings still feel OK but expecting to get them refurbished in a few years. I also like the SL, but won't be upgrading until I can do frame only and to something that's sensibly priced and about 17kg.

IME, have broken more bits than I would normally. I think this is logical, given the extra weight and power.

Agree 100% on using an LBS - and it being a decent one with good knowledge of e-bikes. These things are more complex, so there's a better chance you'll need support. As posted above , there are a few real specialists (excuse the pun). If you can, use someone with a good reputation.

Other than eating through chains and cassettes due to too much turbo commuting on it, I’ve yet to have any problems with my Levo. 1700 miles since Dec 2018.

join the Facebook page and ask about Leisure lakes for e bike warranty repair, they maybe good but they may not be, quite few people have complained of shops that have had bikes for weeks trying to solve issues, Leisure lakes could be one of the good ones but best to check before you buy

Even Specialized concept stores have been known to be useless, just because they are a main dealer dosen't mean they have any interest in e bikes as others on the Facebook page have found out

I cant recommend Chris@Berkrshire Cycles enough, he has customers who drive 3-4 hours to him for warranty work as their local dealers are just rubbish, join the Facebook page and ask about him, you will hear nothing but praise

Now for warranty on motors etc...this info is direct from Specailzed's main guys who i met at their e bike open day at the UK HQ

If you have a new motor replaced under warranty then that new motor only has warranty until the bike's warranty runs out, so if your bike is 18 months old and the motor is replaced under warranty then that new motor has 6 months warranty left

Now there are some exceptions, the following is done on a case by case basis

So if your motor dies say within 3-4 months of the bikes warranty expiring and you have a new one under warranty then that one dies one or two months after the bike's warranty expires then Specialized at their discretion can decide to replace it for free

Now once your bike is out of warranty and the motor dies, Specialized will still help with a replacement motor

They have an assisted replacement program where they will sell you a new motor etc.. at a discount, the older the bike the less the discount, more info in the link below

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/warranty

Again this is all direct from the guys at Specialized at the e-mtb open day back in February

There is also a company called Performance bearings who are doing motor repairs for out of warranty motors, a basic strip down and bearing replacement starts at £250 if i remember correctly

Thanks for the info.
Doesn't sound like those mileages between failures are huge to say the least.
I already do 4000 miles a year on regular MTB.
I think on E Bike I will possibly do more than that, though I still plan to ride my regular MTB's when riding with my mates as none of them have E Bikes so won't stand a chance at keeping up.
This keeps the E Bike for solo rides only.
I think Leisure Lakes are a specialized dealer and I know someone who has had warranty issues with his Stumpjumper and it sounds like they've been good at sorting stuff out for him, he's even had the frame replaced.
They are the closest one to me, and there is plenty of good riding in the surrounding area so can often get a good ride in while visiting the store.

There's no way I'd like to start driving 3-4 hours to get to places for electronic repairs no matter how good they are. I'd rather stick with the regular MTB's than have to start doing that.

I've also heard about how they eat through chains, cassettes & chain rings quicker than regular bike, but by how much ?
Are the E Bike specific chains more expensive as well ?

Definetely want a 700 watt hour E Bike as I've demo'd a 500 watt hour Kenevo in March and the range anxiety was huge, battery was "in the red" at 20 miles every ride, in crap conditions though (muddy and windy) & over 3500 ft of climbing

When the motors fail do they tend to do it mid ride ? The thought of being stuck with a really heavy bike with a difficult journey back to the car or house is worrying

😳 at the warranty lifestyle of owning an ebike. Blimey.

Certainly puts me off ever owning one, and you'd have to be mad to buy a second hand one seemingly.

My mate has a Focus and has recently had a fair few problems. He bought that from Leisure Lakes and they have been nothing but excellent op.

When the motors fail do they tend to do it mid ride

The law of Sod ensures they do, same as regular bikes. Had a spate of it recently with my mate on his Focus.. Each time, the breakdown was of course the furthest from the start that we were going...  Pedalling them back without power isn't ideal, but it's still just a bike, it's fine.

Every single Levo and Kenevo owner I know personally has had at least one replacement motor each and none of them have covered mega miles. Yes, the Spesh warranty is excellent but it’s time limited, not rolling, and is only as good as the dealer you use.
The pre-2019 Levo and pre-2020 Kenevo were more reliable than the later bikes but still not infallible.
One of the Brose motors strong points is the belt drive which is why it’s so quiet but it’s also a major cause of failure with snapped belts.
The TCU (power switch on the top tube) seems very susceptible to water ingress. Sometimes they can be dried out, sometimes not. Spesh have hinted at a replacement that’s got better environmental seals but I don’t think it’s in use yet.

The SL is a different kettle of fish without a single motor failure so far as I am aware.

I’ve also heard about how they eat through chains, cassettes & chain rings quicker than regular bike, but by how much ?

Simply not true in my experience, cassettes and chainrings are damaged by leaving worn chains on too long before replacing them, and through not cleaning them properly after rides, regardless of the type of bike.

No need for e-bike specific or expensive chains on e-mtbs, weight is not an issue for most riders so the cheapest Sram/Shimano chains are fine.

I still havent bought an ebike - lost my job last month, but these tales of unreliability are not good. especially using bearings that are not user replaceable but are exposed to the elements on a mountain bike. Everyone knows that all bearings on a mountain bike need regular replacement, what are the manufacturers thinking?

If I were buying one today, I'd probably be going for a commencal meta power sx, it uses standard shimano motor and battery , so hopefully can just be warrantied by any shimano dealer rather than having to go back to commencal

quite fancy one of these but wow. maybe not

Wow! Was considering one for next year, if I still have a job.

I'll have a look again in a couple of years if things improve reliability-wise...

Definetely want a 700 watt hour E Bike as I’ve demo’d a 500 watt hour Kenevo in March and the range anxiety was huge, battery was “in the red” at 20 miles every ride, in crap conditions though (muddy and windy) & over 3500 ft of climbing

Is 700 Wh really enough, though, grannyjone? It sounds an incremental advance on weeny 500 tbh. The bikes look great so understandable if you want to jump in, but something to be said for waiting till the man-size motor is released - 1000 Wh.

“Definetely want a 700 watt hour E Bike as I’ve demo’d a 500 watt hour Kenevo in March and the range anxiety was huge”

Everyone with range anxiety needs to go out for a ride on their ebike with it switched off, zero assistance. It’s absolutely fine on the Levo. Put it this way, do you have any riding mates that weigh 1.5 stone more than you? Do they manage to ride up hills?

Or to put it another way, if you weigh 170lbs and your normal MTB weighs 30lbs then the total system weight is 200lbs. If your ebike weighs 50lbs then the total system weight is 220lbs. So it go uphill at the same speed on an ebike with the motor off requires 10% more power.

Or to keep the pedalling force the same, you need to shift down a gear vs a normal MTB and then either pedal faster or accept you’ll go about 10% slower.

It’s not a big deal.

I think with all e bikes and not just Specialized there is just more to go wrong compared to a normal bike.

I've been riding a Giant E Reign for the last three months and fair to say that it seems to eat through chains and cassettes faster than my regular bike on the same trails for a similar mileage. My non scientific experience leads me to think that I am generally riding a bit aster and powering up stuff where normally I would finesse and ride an easier gear.

As for the OP's question, my entirely unrepresentative experience of Specialized E bikes is restricted to my mate and his missus who had quite a few problems with both their models and ended up getting a refund on both. I have no doubt that other manufacturers will experience similar issues and what counts is how they deal with the issues. It sounds like Specialized stand by their products based on this thread.

Cheers!

I was out on the demo Kenevo in March when the battery ran out and it was horrible trying to ride it back to the car.
It's not just the weight I believe trying to pedal through the motor is the main reason its so much harder than a regular bike.

Specialized motors don’t add any drag when they aren’t on.

chiefgrooveguru

I like your theory but in my experience, some e bikes without the motor on are noticeably harder to pedal on anything other than  the flat or downhill. The Giant I have just tested was not a fan of climbing without the motor!

Well it sounds like the motor reliability is a nightmare, I really can't wait to jump in with this E Biking but comments about motors failing on such low mileage and prone to breaking down due to water are worrying (no good in north west England sometimes you can get rain for 6 months in a row). I also find it rediculous if the 2019/2020 models have gone more unreliable than the previous ones.

Is 700 Wh really enough, though, grannyjone? It sounds an incremental advance on weeny 500 tbh. The bikes look great so understandable if you want to jump in, but something to be said for waiting till the man-size motor is released – 1000 Wh.

Even 700 Wh is a bit on the light side but should be good for 30-35 miles and 5000-6000 ft of climbing (depending on conditions) which is definetely enough to have a really good ride, probably about 3 hours of fun.

Unlike 500 Wh where it ran out at 20 miles in crap conditions it was barely worth driving an hour to get to some places to ride it, more time spent in the car than on the bike!

OP, if you are in north west England, consider North West Mountain Bikes based in Cheadle by M60 roundabout.
They stock Specialized eBikes.
I've not used them for eBikes but for everything else they are brilliant and really do go above & beyond - exactly what you use a LBS for.

On the flip side, we bought my other half a used (out of warranty) Levo a couple of years ago and it's been fine. Granted, it doesn't get ridden through the winter in horrific conditions but she's had no problems with it.

The motors aren't some impenetrable wizardry - they use belts, gears and bearings - and are assembled by normal humans. If they can be built by people, they can be repaired. Batteries can be taken apart and repacked if absolutely necessary. Depending on how technically-minded you are, of course, YMMV..

I bought a Levo Expert in 2016 and have had £11,000 worth of warranty replacements including six motors! Only Spesh would shell out that sort of cash.

That's incredible I'd definetely not consider second hand then!!
It sounds like the warranty is going to be worth more than the bike itself if I end up purchasing this Turbo Levo!
Maybe I'll ride it for 2 years then sell it when the warranty runs out, then hopefully by then the techology would have advanced enough to make reliable E Mountain Bikes.

OP, if you are in north west England, consider North West Mountain Bikes based in Cheadle by M60 roundabout.
They stock Specialized eBikes.

Thanks for the suggestion but I really think Leisure Lakes Bury is really the one for me to go for.
It's the closer to home than Cheadle and a visit to the shop can be combined with some great riding in the local area (if the bike is in working order!)

On the flip side, we bought my other half a used (out of warranty) Levo a couple of years ago and it’s been fine. Granted, it doesn’t get ridden through the winter in horrific conditions but she’s had no problems with it.

Unfortunately, Winter riding will be a big part of my riding if I got an E Bike.
I'm really bored in the Winter and going to Spain is unlikely to be an option next Winter.
Riding a regular bike is slow and hard in the mud and wind but you can still have a good blast on an E Bike. They just power through it as if it isn't there.
My riding mates don't come out much in Winter as well so trying to face it solo is always hard on a regular bike.

The previous Winter was especially horrendous though, couldn't have been any worse for MTB really, hopefully the next few won't be as bad!

The motors aren’t some impenetrable wizardry – they use belts, gears and bearings – and are assembled by normal humans. If they can be built by people, they can be repaired. Batteries can be taken apart and repacked if absolutely necessary. Depending on how technically-minded you are, of course, YMMV..

I'm not technically minded at all

I've got more than enough spare cash to buy a Turbo Levo and even if I just sell it after 2 years the money maybe worth it for 2 years of fun especially seeing as the money is not likely to be going on holidays any time soon.

In 2 years time maybe E Bikes will be reliable and 1000 watt hours the norm

The motor belt is certainly the weak point. Unfortunately while a standard size (405mm x 15mm pitch 5mm) it is made with carbon fibre reinforcement by Gates and not available off the shelf. A 'normal' HTD fibre glass belt only lasts a week as I found out.

weight is not an issue for most riders so the cheapest Sram/Shimano chains are fine.

E-Bike chains are longer so a regular chain may well be too short .

Surely a chain is not going to last as long on the E Bike just because there is so much more power and torque being put through it ?

Turbo mode in particular increases power output by 4X I believe ? I've read that it does and it certainly felt like it when riding up Jacobs Ladder and Chapel Gate!

“I like your theory but in my experience, some e bikes without the motor on are noticeably harder to pedal on anything other than the flat or downhill. The Giant I have just tested was not a fan of climbing without the motor!“

That feels like such half-hearted design - what a waste of energy if you can feel motor drag resisting your pedalling.

The main difference I noticed pedalling my unassisted Levo vs my Spitfire was that the suspension bobs more. On flatter trails the bigger wheels’ rolling ability compensates for the extra weight, when it gets steeper it’s a bit harder work - and the relative lack of anti-squat more obvious especially when I stand up to pedal.

The difference was small enough that I sold the Spitfire as I couldn’t see it getting used much - I now have the Levo as my full-sus, plus a 150mm hardtail as my other bike.

Geeky aside - one of the major issues with designing a full-sus ebike is that chain tension and motive force at the contact patch work together to minimise suspension bob - this is called anti-squat. Suspension bob is mostly caused by the rhythmic application of power when pedalling which causes the rider mass to act like an inverted pendulum.

You can design MTB suspension to cancel that out and it works very wel, that’s why so many full-sus bikes go uphill well nowadays. But the motor adds constant power when you’re pedalling, it doesn’t happen in pulses like with your legs, so once it’s kicked in it causes no extra bobbing. But the extra chain tension and motive force causes more anti-squat, which stiffens up or even jacks up the suspension.

Therefore there’s a challenging compromise in how much anti-squat designed in, because ideal anti-squat with max motor power will be far less than ideal anti-squat with zero assistance. Fortunately the rear suspension works a lot better on an ebike than a normal bike because of the sprung:unsprung weight ratio being far better, so it doesn’t seem to result in traction problems on the Levo, just more than ideal bob with the power off.

“E-Bike chains are longer so a regular chain may well be too short.”

Only if the chainstays are particularly long - on bigger non-e bikes chainstays lengths are getting longer nowadays anyway.

I’ve yet to manage to change a chain soon enough to keep the cassette happy - I pedal pretty hard on a short commute turboing up fairly steep hills, and I think there’s just too much torque for the sprockets to not get worn, however fresh the chain. I buy cheaper cassettes and run the chain and cassette into the ground.

E-Bike chains are longer so a regular chain may well be too short .

E-MTBs come spec’d with standard MTB chains, the e-bike specific ones are just an expensive aftermarket gimmick.

We all make our choices though and that’s fine as it keeps the industry alive.

As far as chains wearing out faster, I think that probably is the case due to the extra torque, but that has doesn’t affect cassettes or chainrings if the chain is regularly measured and replaced at 0.5mm ...as it is wise to do on any bike, chains are much cheaper to replace than cassettes. I use the cheap Sram ones and replace at 0.5mm, they can be had for £7.95 online if you shop around.

...I am also pretty OCD about maintaining my bikes 😳

If I were buying one today, I’d probably be going for a commencal meta power sx, it uses standard shimano motor and battery , so hopefully can just be warrantied by any shimano dealer rather than having to go back to commencal

We had one of these in the workshop today. Commencal had just left the wheel diameter at the default 3000mm so the bike only does 11mph.

We had one of these in the workshop today. Commencal had just left the wheel diameter at the default 3000mm so the bike only does 11mph.

interesting! Can the end user change the wheel diameter to the correct value using an app of some sort, or is it only dealers that have access to do that? I presume only dealers, otherwise everyone would be programming them so that they cut out at 30mph.

interesting! Can the end user change the wheel diameter to the correct value using an app of some sort, or is it only dealers that have access to do that? I presume only dealers, otherwise everyone would be programming them so that they cut out at 30mph.

Only distributor or manufacturer apparently. Despite being a shimano service centre we can't do anything.

"if the chain is regularly measured and replaced at 0.5mm"

What chain checker do you use? Mine seems less accurate than a metal rule, and I can't measure that precisely to judge half a millimetre. Did you actually mean 0.5mm?

FWIW, I can get about 50 miles range out of a Shimano E8000 bike with a 500wh battery - and that's a heavy Enduro style one. The key is to use eco mode most of the time. If you use the app to set it to medium assist, it's totally enough for most riding - you just use trail and boost when you need then drop back down.
Winter is worse though - mud and cold temps meant I was getting a range of about 25 miles.

Also, it hasn't broken at all even getting hammered through a minging winter.

Regarding range anxiety - remember that with a Levo you can use the BLevo app to input an intended route and it will manage the battery life such that you don't run out. Can't recall if the Mission Control app can do it as well, but you can customise the assistance percentage and permitted motor current for each level of assistance too.

What chain checker do you use? Mine seems less accurate than a metal rule, and I can’t measure that precisely to judge half a millimetre. Did you actually mean 0.5mm?”

0.5%
Sorry 😳

It’s a standard Park Tools chain checker.

Maybe I’ll ride it for 2 years then sell it when the warranty runs out,

Who to? Nobody with any sense is going to buy secondhand ebikes.

I'd only consider it if the price was low enough to account for the high chance of having to chuck hundreds at it for new motors etc.

Nah.

Well in 2 years time I'll have the choice of spending thousands on new motors and other electronic repairs as it will be out of warranty - or sell it and buy a new one. The new E Bikes by then will surely be more reliable and have 1000 watt hours.

Second-hand E Bikes are already appearing on Facebook so people must be buying them.

It would seem to make sense to wait until the technology gets better before buying one at all. It seems like the technology is not quite there yet, especially when motors are failing before they even hit 2000 miles. Imagine if a Motorbike had that sort of failure rate. However when I've demo'd E Bikes I think they are by the most solo fun I can possibly have, so got to get one or I'll be missing out! Plus I fear they might even get banned from most trails in a few years time, (they are pissing walkers off and knocking fences down in some places near me), so I might have to buy now to enjoy riding these bikes while I can.

Plenty of cars need hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds' worth of repair work when out of warranty - do people only ever buy cars that are still in warranty..?

Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.

Only distributor or manufacturer apparently. Despite being a shimano service centre we can’t do anything

Turns out that commencal can remotely log into our computer and sort it out 🙂

Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.

They don’t sit at the Redline for their entire use either though.

grannyjone
Member
Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.

I've done nearly 4000km in the 10 months i've had mine, with no motor issues at all, and that's riding in all conditions. If you post queries about component reliability, cracked frames etc etc on forums, then you tend to get all the horror stories reported back.

That said, there have been some problems with water ingress and the motor units on Levos and Kenevos, particularly when the bikes are power washed without care. They do have a large market share in UK E-MTB sales for a reason though, and there are hundreds of riders who've had no major problems for every rider that has had a motor failure.

Yes, motor life on an e-bike does add another expense to maintaining the bike; but when the 2 year motor warranty expires on mine, i'll either be using one of the growing number of e-bike motor servicing companies, or replacing the motor at a similar cost to a decent pair of forks, drivetrain, or wheelset.

tomhoward
Subscriber
Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.

They don’t sit at the Redline for their entire use either though.

Neither do a vast majority of e-mtb riders (in my experience, of course).

Christ. I'm reading this thread with horror.

I was thinking about an emtb for my 50th in a few years time, but they're clearly not a mature product if they need so much after care and warranty work.

I went with the Levo SL myself and its a different beast, but when my only option was 'Full fat' e-bikes, I trawled the forums for months researching which one to go with. The conclusion I came to was that 90% of E-bikers jet wash their bikes and run some method of avoiding the speed limiter, and fly around on TURBO everywhere, which is really all outside the manufacturers intended parameters, so you cant really say its bad design.

‘You only hear horror stories’

Indeed.
Not from me though, my cube e stereo has been fine. Bosch motor.
Just for balance, every type day of consumer product has a % of failure.

From all the reading I've been doing (not just on here, but other places), it seems that the specialized e mountain bikes are more prone to issues than the bosch or shimano e mountain bikes.

That could be a totally incorrect conclusion but it's the impression that I'm left with after doing a fair bit of trawling the Internet.

Maybe specialized have sold more than all the others, who knows.

That's the impression I get. Apparantly the Turbo Levo has sold more than any other EMTB so it's bound to have more problems reported than average.

It would be interesting to find out if this is the cause of all these reported issues or if they really are just less reliable than some of the other E Bikes.

Regarding de restriction. Most people I know de restrict their E Bikes just so they get the boring road sections out of the way with quicker! Particularly those who ride from home to the trails but have got miles of boring road to get there.

I can't see myself doing that, maybe when the warranty runs out in 2 years I might. But until then that warranty could be worth a fortune (I've seen 6 motors in 2 years reported by someone in this thread) so would not want to void it!

The impression I got when demo'ing them is you've just have to make the routes "extreme" enough so that the 15mph limit is rarely a problem! Loads of flat or mellow gradients is no good.

Regarding the bike washing - I was my regular bikes with a Fontus Unit ( https://www.howetools.co.uk/bosch-green-fontus-body-18v-power-washer?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwka_1BRCPARIsAMlUmEpRdZiA7Lg-oCrue35ncZjjAYsBw1sGsMmbKnVPYzRBIqZrrzhPcuQaAtzmEALw_wcB) which provides power up to 15 bar (I only use maximum pressure on the wheels though!).
It has not caused any problems, but would this be bad for the E Bike ?

Genuinely astonished by the failure rate talking about here. Every bit of kit has its problems but this is not good at all.
Was debating getting my dad one for his 70th next year but that’s not happening now, no way.

This is a bit worrying. I am close to pulling trigger on a levo, but don't want to deal with warrenty stuff....

I've put my bosche powerfly through hell, including relatively frequent sal****er exposure, and it seems good as new.

Anyone owned both and comment on relative reliability?

I had a Powerfly for 2500 miles, 4 motors and one frame...

Never jet washed, but ridden hard in all conditions, especially Forest of Dean winter slop.

The Bosch Gen2 motor has a design flaw; the small chain ring. It traps dirt beneath the chain which then gets ground into a fine paste and forced through the bearings. A known issue, thankfully the Bosch warranty is even better than the Spesh warranty as it resets every time you have a new motor.
However, there are Bosch motors in commuter bikes with many tens of thousands of miles on them and US Bosch MTB owners don’t report the same failure so often.
On no occasion did a failed motor leave me stranded, nor did I ever see an error code.
The Gen4 has a normal sized chain ring so shouldn’t suffer the same issues.

I’ve never owned a Levo, but as I said earlier in the thread, every single person I know personally with one has had at least one motor each.

I do wonder if this is one of those cases where anecdotal evidence provides a very inaccurate and misleading picture of reality.

Or maybe I’m just lucky or maybe my Levo’s motor is about to self-destruct? I only know two other people with Levo’s but theirs have been fine too.

I never use a pressure washer on my bikes and washing them at all is a rare occurrence (a few times a year at most). I just keep the drivetrain and suspension vaguely clean and lubed. I ride them in all weathers, rain, mud, whatever.

chiefgrooveguru
Member

I do wonder if this is one of those cases where anecdotal evidence provides a very inaccurate and misleading picture of reality.

Or maybe I’m just lucky or maybe my Levo’s motor is about to self-destruct? I only know two other people with Levo’s but theirs have been fine too.

This echoes my thoughts exactly, CGG 😁

All those who never wash their bikes ? Surely the bikes can't be nice to ride if they're constantly covered in mud and shit ?
Surely working on the bikes must be pretty horrible if they're filthy ?
Also they'll be an eye sore when stored and make the garage or shed dirty.

4 motors in 2500 miles - absolutely shocking! That's on average a failure every 625 miles. 625 miles is absolutely sod all for an E Bike, I would do that in no time if I had one. When I demo'd a Levo Turbo last Summer I did over 150 miles in 3 days.

What about the reliability of non-motorised componants on these E Bikes ?

Are they more durable than (for example) a Stumpjumper ?

My Stumpjumper came with a Roval Traverse rear wheel which only lasted a year until the freehub failed and I binned it to get a new Hope one. The Command Post was binned after a year. The pivot bearings near the bottom bracket are only small and don't last long before they need replacing.

Does the Levo Turbo have these problems or are those componants more durable ?
I am hoping that because weight saving isn't as important that at least some of the componants are more durable.

The only ‘ebike specific’ bits on Spesh bikes, IIRC, are (sometimes) the fork and shifter (no multiple shifts). If you broke stuff on a standard one, you’re going to break them on the electric one.

It's very hard to gauge the durability of eBike wheels, there's so many bought by dentists that the first thing to go is the wheels.

4 motors in 2500 miles – absolutely shocking! That’s on average a failure every 625 miles

That really is ridiculous, frankly at the cost I'd be expecting 1 motor to last double that.
Do people/Specialized thing this is OK? Am I just being a bit naive?

Thing is, you don't know whether these failures are people riding everywhere in 34/11 in Turbo mode at massively low cadences, overheating the motor and stressing the entire drivetrain or not.

Also OP, no disrespect, but from your username I recall your posting history of not really working on your bikes yourself, being reliant on a (less-than-stellar) mechanic, and trashing everything in sight really quickly. I'd say that right now an e-bike probably isn't for you.

“Do people/Specialized thing this is OK? Am I just being a bit naive?”

I suspect any naivety is if you’re believing that all Levo’s are this unreliable! Anecdotal evidence isn’t worth the paper it’s not written on.

“I recall your posting history of... ...trashing everything in sight really quickly. I’d say that right now an e-bike probably isn’t for you.”

That’s my feeling too. With my Levo I’ve decided to let my LBS do almost all the work on it, though that’s just consisted of a fork and shock service and replacing the awful NX drivetrain once it wore out, on grounds that I’m even more time poor than money poor. I normally do work on my bikes bar suspension servicing, and I feel I have decent mechanical sympathy, I don’t break much stuff.

“I recall your posting history of… …trashing everything in sight really quickly. I’d say that right now an e-bike probably isn’t for you.”

Same. especially as you have indicated in other threads that you want to just put the motor in turbo and blast round at top speed for as long as the (biggest available) battery will take, every other day, in all conditions then it still to be bulletproof reliable. You'll (probably) be disappointed.

I own a 2018 Levo. I haven't seen it since before lockdown started as it away having the motor replaced for the second time. The first replacement took place over December and early January.

The first motor lasted 1400km. The second, 65km. In both cases the torque sensor seemed to fail as I get uncontrolled over-run. Never hacked, derestricted or pressure washed...

See here.

When it works it is fantastic. I am on the cusp of rejecting it and asking the supplying shop for proportional refund.

With regards to chains etc. I run 3 chains on rotation using putoline. I swap them every 100km. No wear issues yet. I could have been riding it every day in this recent dry spell...

That sounds shocking! They must have held onto your bike for 6+ weeks since the last motor failure ?!

If I'd spent that much on an EMTB I'd find it appalling if I couldn't use it for weeks on end due to waiting for warranty repairs!

Same. especially as you have indicated in other threads that you want to just put the motor in turbo and blast round at top speed for as long as the (biggest available) battery will take, every other day, in all conditions then it still to be bulletproof reliable. You’ll (probably) be disappointed.

Well if you're not blasting it round at top speed in turbo mode then what's the point in having an EBike, as from what I have seen, climbing in Eco mode really isn't much faster than riding a regular MTB! Even Trail mode wasn't massively quicker, not enough to justify all this expense and hassle anyway. Turbo was what made me want one, it's fun on another level.

I draw the line at de restriction as invalidating the warranty is not worth it given the unreliability of the motor.

The 15mph limit is only an issue on the flat anyway, just got to make the ride as hilly as possible then it doesn't matter. 25kph up huge hills is great then going down its fast as you want.

I just want to smash out 35 miles / 4500 feet of climbing in 3 hours before work and not feel ****ed at the end of it, not possible on a regular bike!

I work the no-life afternoon shift (typically start at 2 in the afternoon and finish when the day is over!) and regular biking is incompatible with it as I really don't want to go to work with aches, pains and feeling hungry all day.
But if it's a nice day then it drives me insane if I've not got out on the bike on a decent ride.

Also OP, no disrespect, but from your username I recall your posting history of not really working on your bikes yourself, being reliant on a (less-than-stellar) mechanic, and trashing everything in sight really quickly. I’d say that right now an e-bike probably isn’t for you.

This is why I've always held back from buying one. But time & time again I've had enough. The lockdown enforcing solo riding for the forseeable future and the increase in walkers on the trail is the final straw that's done it for me now.

I have made improvements over the years in terms of what I can do on the bike myself now, but the really complex or tool-heavy stuff I still can't do.

I can't wait to jump in with the E Biking. The funds are there. Unless the weather is perfect I'm bored of riding solo all the time. There are no bike park uplifts anywhere near me. The reasons are all there.

If the E breaks I'll still have my 2 regular bikes to ride while waiting for the repairs. Although it may feel slow and frustating going back to them!

I've waited year after year for the technology to get more reliable and held back from buying one but I've now got enough spare cash to buy 7 E Bikes never mind one so might as well get one and then maybe by the time the warranty runs out in 2 years time E Bikes might finally be reliable and then I'll get the bike I really want.

This video stating the costs of running an E Bike is likely to be £1000 a year... It costs me more than that to keep two regular bikes running!