[Closed] The Snowdon summer voluntary ban

Because MTB's screeming downwards and 000's of walkers walking up the same track do not make for a happy day out.

with the voluntary ban are you ok going up hill before 5 given it is mainly a carry/hike for mortals or is it a dont set out before 5?

Pook do you meam walkers or cyclists?

How did it come about?

Idiot walkers & idiot MTB'ers I believe.

I think there was an incident where MTB'ers came flying down, pushing for the 10 mins or whatever it is; a bunch of walkers decided to block the MTB'ers path, swerved round them, massive accident involving MTB'ers & some poor inocent walkers walking behind.

cyclists. Thinking of a summer trip

its voulentary, you can ride it at miday if you like. But the result would be the upping of the current situation to a total ban.

So yes you can go up before 5, but they count the number of wheels on the track at various points, so unless your bike is carbon framed and carbon wheeled it will still count as one more nail in the access coffin whether your pushing or riding.

cyclists. Thinking of a summer trip

[i]No I don't work for STW![/i]

I want to get to the sumit for sunrise, and be down by 10am.

So yes you can go up before 5,

I said before 10, and after 5. I wasn't considering breaking the ban at all.

last time i rode it (llanberry track) we pushed up at, starting at 4:30 and even then there was a 'helpful' ranger who informed us that the ban was in place.
its a great descent though and worth the effort, at least once in your riding life.

How long does it take to get up and down for average riders?

Average riders can't get up or down.

Are you still planning it for the one weekend in the whole of the year I can't attend? 🙄 😉

no. But we may have to miss HtN.....

I'm planning to go up in June as well, as I'm on holiday in the area. WOuld like to know how long it will take me up the Llanberis path - I walked the ranger path a couple of years ago and IIRC it took 3.5 hours (can't really remember though). I was hoping to start at 5pm and be back down for 9pm when it'd still be light.
Any suggestions?

I walked up it last week with the Mrs and Dogs, and didn't go for it, and it took just under 2hrs..

Its bloody steep in places...But looks to be great fun.

Saw a few of here about to head back down..

Does the ban cover pushing the bike up or riding the bike up and dismounting around non-believers? Surely being considerate, verging on obsequious to others means they're unlikely to do/say anything?

I walked up it last week with the Mrs and Dogs, and didn't go for it, and it took just under 2hrs..

non-believers

Does the ban cover pushing the bike up or riding the bike up and dismounting around non-believers? Surely being considerate, verging on obsequious to others means they're unlikely to do/say anything?

I think it's beyond that now IMHO. Stick to the rules and there won't be any aggro for anyone. You only want to go up on a nice day and early morning or evening is the best time anyway. No point in trying to ride down a very busy walkers path, its a bit pointless.

I am sure some retard will ignore the ban one day and make it a total ban, therefore spoiling it for everyone.

Its a sensible rule and it isn't a big deal sticking to it. When I walked up there was no way you would have been able to ride down without having to slow to a crawl every few seconds.

Snakebite went full pelt into a woman walker on the scree bit near that bridge halfway up. What a tw4t 😳

teetosugars, that was probably me and my old man. it took us less than an hour and a half to get up to the summit. we only rode the bits that wouldnt have knackered us for the way down and we stopped for a sarnie 3/4 of the way up too. its a pretty gentle gradient other than the very start on the road, a section of steppy rocks just after half way, then another steep section just after you go under the railway for the last time. well worth it though.

we were pre-ban this time but last year we went mid-may, arrived at the start of the bridleway at 4:50 and met a ranger. he started to tell us off because it was before 5 but when i asked him if we were allowed to push our bikes up before 5 he said yes. we were grateful for the excuse.

even outside the ban ive never managed to blag my way on to the train though, try it very time!

I saw some bikes up there in the middle of last september. About midday. They were gone when I came out of the cafe 30 mins later. ****s.

For normal mortals walking up the Llanberis path with bike and riding when you can is a 2 - 2 1/2 hour enterprise. there wil be some either side of that who are uber fit or uber fat, but reckon on that and you won't be far out. I last did it in November, on a pretty foul day, and even there there were too many walkers to make it an entirely pleasant descent. So I personally I would be inclined to keep well outside the times simply to make the experience better for yourself.

As far as down is concerned, it took me 20minutes including a stop at halfway house, one largish off, and a very emabressing gear cable hooked up on gorse bush moment at the top of a steep bit. (Rapid deceleration ending with me still clipped in hanging over the front wondering what had happened)

even outside the ban ive never managed to blag my way on to the train though, try it very time!

http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-BOD-BAG.htm

I've got one of these that I used to take my bike onto the underground in. Once at Victoria I folded it up and packed it away in my camelbak. Sorted.

I can see why the ban is needed though. We can only see our own conduct. I bet the Rangers have seen/dealt with alot of near misses, complaints and the very real risk of a death to a walker or rider.

So is it up Llanberis and down Ranger?

+1 Hora

...plus that bag is utter GENIUS!!!

Apart from the uber-expensive cost of the Snowdon Railway, it's a perfect plan.

It meant I could get across the whole of London to Victoria Station on the tube from my house rather than the 5/6mile ride each way then train then long ride off road when I lived in London!

how about putting a bike into a flight bag, going up on the train and assemble it at the top, then 5 pm exactly start downhill?

edit: i never read what Hora posts

robdob - Member

I walked up it last week with the Mrs and Dogs, and didn't go for it, and it took just under 2hrs..

Was that from Llanberis to the summit? Seems pretty good, I am sure you could ride bits of it on the way up to reduce the time a smidge.

Yeah, It was...

I used to be pretty fit in my old job of walking up and down The Brecon Beacons... 😉

slowrider - Member
teetosugars, that was probably me and my old man

It was on the 16th April..

There where 3 Guys- one on an older G-spot, 1 Chumba, and I can't remeber what the last one was.. 😳

ourkidsam, yep thats the best route of the three options. take a couple of spare tubes though, the last trail back down to llanberis is so easy to pinch flat on if you miss time hopping the water bars.

2-2 1/2 is probably a fair estimate in bad conditions. last week it was clear, warm and pretty still which made it sooo much easier. couldnt believe the difference! as anyone from the peaks pootle posse will verify, im no mountain goat but 1 1/2 hrs was comfortable though we did keep moving.

Its about £30 on the train!!!

yes up Llanberis down the Rangers. Stop before the zig zags at the bottom and up and over the steep hill to descend on other path to get back to Llanberis. I agree with the riding outside these times but I agree on 2 + hours for mortals up so it would be a rush to leave at 5 to get back in day light IMHO for most of summer

Its about £30 on the train!!!

Clucking bells.

edit: i never read what Hora posts

and you think I read my own posts? 😉

anyone from the peaks pootle posse will verify, im no mountain goat but

Don't try to take my crown away from me, [b]I'M[/b] the slowest rider on the Peaks Pootles.... 😉

BUT I have been doing some secret training, lost 9lbs in weight.....

I'm still on the last Peaks Pootle.

I'm off out again looking for stragglers.

£14 one way ticket on the Snowdon [s]train[/s] tractor pushing a box

I'm still on the first one. 🙂

wasnt me then, didnt see anyone else on a bike all week!

Reckon a really early start, train to the top of Snowdon, bash down then a day at Llandegla should work

Wait for next months STW mag, I think they have a route guide..

The digital copy is in the Premier bit already

Midweek is the only time to do Snowdon. There's just too many walkers at the weekends to make it fun.

We did our run two years ago in November. Took a Friday off work and went up and down the Llanberis path. 2hrs up, to find that the new cafe was not yet finished or open, and then 15 mins down including a couple of quick stops to regroup.

Only saw two walkers the whole day. Brilliant - but rather cold though!

There should be a mutual aggrement IE walkers dont go up or down!
When we can go up and down.
Or Walkers use the other path up or down.

I'd emigrate from a country that doesn't allow MTBing virtually everywhere 24/7.

I mean, life's too short.

Again. I think its something to do with people coming full pelt on the edge of control towards people sedately walking up. Not a good mix.

I'd love to hear the Rangers end of the story but (I'm also guessing) mountain bikers do flout the rules.

Having been involved at the coalface back in 1990-91 when the original ban was being put in place. It was the Community Council in Llanberis who wanted the ban, and was fully supported by the head national park warden for the north of the Park who hated mountain bikes more than anyone else on the park who all disliked them at least a bit. Initially the matter came to a head when a biker crashed, out of control it was said into a train, and lead to the the fear / anguish of a train de-railment caused the whole thing to blow up along with a couple of mtb mags who published stories that some thought unreasonable at the time.

Those arguing against bikes also quoted erosion as much an issue as the danger from bikes coming down too fast as reasons to seek a ban. it should be noted the very high rainfall rates on the mountain would support research that lines such as those created by spinning or skidding bikes cause attract and enable water flow causing gulleying and is a far worse form of erosion to manage than that caused by the puddling the feet of walkers and sheep cause.

Originally the highway authority voted to make an order, however lobbying from a climber I knew who sat on the national park committee and had sons who raced MTB's in North Wales caused some loss of support for the order. The Countryside Council for Wales whose job is to protect access, rubbed their hands with glee and supported it, but it was the Sports Council who really kicked up enough shit to make the County Council stand back and call a meeting where it was agreed to delay the order whilst voluntary restraint was tried. A bike hire businesses in Llanberis objected to the proposal and indicated they would ignore the agreement. The Head Warden left the meeting pledging to start a campaign with allies at walking magazines to get readers to write in complaining about the danger of bikes demanding they be banned.

The first year of the agreement worked, all park wardens and train staff were required to record all sightings of bikes in a log book at their office and these figures were reported at monitoring meetings, later on some kind of automatic counting device was installed that still exists and gives numbers and times that bikes pass it.
Mostly the agreement has worked to reduce the excesses but it has not stopped people riding when they should not, up to 2 riders a day in the summer blatantly breach the ban but the NP are no longer so trigger happy and do not consider that level of misuse per day to be of great issue, however on a number of years the total number of riders breaking the agreement over the period has risen as high as 300+ and that appears to be the threshold that causes the NP want to reconsider introducing a more formal approach. I am not really sure if they tried to get a closure now whether they would find they were supported by such a blinkered narrow minded council but it probably is not worth the risk of testing them. Pushing the bike up just before the daytime restrictions list is probably no worse than the odd bike arriving slightly late in the morning, which given the possibility of mechanicals or punctures is hardly avoidable for the most dedicated saint on a bike.

I agree with the riding outside these times but I agree on 2 + hours for mortals up so it would be a rush to leave at 5 to get back in day light IMHO for most of summer

AFAIK the voluntary agreement only includes the main bridleways to the summit, so you can use Telegraph Valley for instance during the restricted hours without any complaints.

Am I the only one to enjoy the ride up?

I managed most of the Up, and relished it the steeper it go, to see just how far I was able to ride before dismounting.

There are places you simply can't ride and it gets very steep just before and not long after the underpass. There are some large stone steps part way up.

IIRC, apart from these, it's 95% rideable if you have maybe a sub 28lb bike and reasonable fitness levels.

Once clear of Snowdon via the Rangers path, are we sure the ban still not in force along that moorland / telegraph bridleway?

Bottom to top and back to the bottom is two(ish) hours for me.
Get there in the summer for 7:00am, have the ride done and be on my way to Marin and Penmachno by 9:30. A top North Wales day out.
The Bwlch Maesgwm bridleway is apparently excluded from the ban completely although I've never ridden it.
Any knowledge of the bridleway and its ban exclusion Max?

yes originally the ban was intended to cover all three bridleways which is why we were able to prove the idea to be a ridiculous solution to what was not a very evident problem, but it was agreed that the bridleway known by locals as 'Telegraph' running between Rhyd Du and Llanberis would be exempted as it served a normal link avoiding a long road ride and needed be open during the day and helped the businesses in Llanberis and Beddgelert

IIRC, apart from these, it's 95% rideable if you have maybe a sub 28lb bike and reasonable fitness levels.

Well that rules me out on both measures.

How about poor fitness level and a 32lb bike? 17 hours?

That reminds me. I must do Hamsterly at somepoint

We estimated 65-75% rideable up last October, quickest of our bunch was 1h27m but the rest stopped for picture taking half a dozen times & still managed 2h10m ish
Down the Rangers/Telegraph was about 2h as we sessioned some techy bits & stopped for sarnies at the lake, but the turn off for the Telegraph is easy to miss!

2hrs up last August at 0630, in miserable cold and rain. About 60% rideable for me.

I think the voluntary ban is fine and, to be honest, with the number of walkers during 9-5, they would quite spoil what is a fantastic descent.

We're timing things from the main car park by the train station aren't we?
A sub 90 minute effort to the top is going some!

All 3 (Pen's 2x loops & the Marin) is a tiring day for any mortal, as I suspect most will break it into 2x days and enjoy the scenery a little but more.

again, another trail where cyclists come 2nd to walkers and their bitches.

From the benches outside the shop, up, down and getting off to order a coffee at the kiosk, 2 hours.
Snowdon, Penmachno original trail (not been since the 2nd one opened) and Marin trail is a nice day out for me and although I easily qualify 'cos I-is-ace-innit, I have no known superman powers :-}.
I have been known to do a bit of hiking with my family. I see no issue with adhering to the very reasonable summer voluntary ban. Plenty of other areas to ride are available and Snowdon doesn't go to Spain for it's holidays at any time so you could always go early or late in the day :-}

We started timing from the end of the row of houses just before the steep tarmac climb [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=258097&y=359476&z=115&sv=258097,359476&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=746&ax=258097&ay=359476&lm=0 ]HERE[/url]

It's a sensible arrangement but not a 'ban'. It has no basis in law.

I've accidentally ridden it outside of agreed hours in that we set off before 6am up Llanberis but, due to unforeseen circumstances, we were still only halfway down Ranger when the clock ticked over 10am.

As with most things in life I think there's room for a bit of flexibility and that includes (in my case) finishing the way down a few minutes after 10am and certainly starting the climb a few minutes before 5pm.

... arrived at the start of the bridleway at 4:50 and met a ranger. he started to tell us off because it was before 5

I think I'd be tempted to either completely ignore him or spend the ten minutes telling him just what an idiot he is.

It's this type of incident that will get us banned completely, there is a voluntary agreement accept it, abide by it, them we can all continue to enjoy it.

I think if it takes a bit longer to get down because of issues then common sense should apply but heading out before the curfew as it were is asking for trouble.

I do accept the voluntary agreement and try to abide by it but I don't tolerate morons well.

I wasn't there so don't know the tone of the conversation but if someone got shirty with me about riding [b]up[/b] a bridleway at not much more than walking pace [u]ten minutes[/u] outside a [i]voluntary[/i] arrangement, I reserve the right to get shirty back.

If the ranger had a rational adult conversation with me, I'd have a rational adult conversation with him.

... get us banned completely...

I imagine a complete ban would be enforced by reclassifying the paths as footpaths therefore being able to use bylaws to enforce, as apposed to just saying you can't ride on this bridleway which would be a challenge to enforce. It would promote sneaky night rides I reckon which could be fun!!

Having ridden down it on a nice day not in August, it can be a bit awkward with walkers on path, someone had a little scottie dog that wasn't for moving which changed the line I would have used some what. 🙂

As riders we need to respect the other users of the Mountain and hopefully we can all happily co-exist, the voluntary arrangement is a good idea for everyone's safety.

As riders we need to respect the other users of the Mountain and hopefully we can all happily co-exist, the voluntary arrangement is a good idea for everyone's safety.

Absolutely.

But the respect should be mutual and, to me, mindless enforcement of 'rules' is not respect.

Credit to all the walkers they were all good humoured and moved aside to watch bar the silly dog, the owner must of dragged it up the Rangers as it didn't seem to move on request 🙂 , was a really good atmosphere between walkers and bikers that weekend. Which is how it should be.

I've 'done' Snowdon twice and never had problems with any of the walkers. I hope that some of the confrontational attitudes displayed in this thread are just keyboard warriors and are not representative us(mountain bikers) in general.

I've 'done' Snowdon twice and never had problems with any of the walkers. I hope that some of the confrontational attitudes ... are not representative us(mountain bikers) in general.

It's not 'us' vs. 'them' though, is it? Or it shouldn't be. I've walked up Snowdon more times than I've ridden up it. Locally (Peak District) I'm a walker, runner and mountain biker on the same trails. I don't feel my attitude/outlook changing significantly when I strap a different pair of shoes on.

A complete ban would be unenforceable.

I think not, you would be in breach of a traffic regulation order not trespassing making it a traffic offence, we originally spoke to North Wales Police hoping to get them to admit they would be unwilling to police the TRO therefore making it pointless but I still have the letter from the Police ( Pre Brundstrom era) where they indicated that if the order was made they would support it with policing if needed.

Sorry - should have said...

A complete ban would be practically unenforceable.

we originally spoke to North Wales Police hoping to get them to admit they would be unwilling to police the TRO therefore making it pointless but I still have the letter from the Police ( Pre Brundstrom era) where they indicated that if the order was made they would support it with policing if needed.

I've accidentally ridden it outside of agreed hours in that we set off before 6am up Llanberis but, due to unforeseen circumstances, we were still only halfway down Ranger when the clock ticked over 10am.

A complete ban would be practically unenforceable.

You wrote to the police expecting them to put on record that they would not enforce the law? Of course they're going to say they'll enforce it. That's a long way from it happening in reality.

Higgo you clearly know an awful lot about these things, but before I stand aside to your greater wisdom my work involves traffic orders often requested by local councils and pressure groups and they often fail at the outset because the police immediately object against the making of the order on the grounds they have insufficient resources to monitor or enforce it and the scale of wrong doing is not sufficient of a nuisance or constant that they should be expected to enforce. There is no point making an order where there is no intention or ability to enforce. If the Police do object to an order it almost always kills it.

Snowdon is one of the most popular outdoor destinations in Britain and has very high visitor numbers compared to other peaks because of it's ranking and the fact fat bloaters can get a train up. Just to make it clear the reasons for the order were almost singly because of incidents and behaviour of some riders on the track between Llanberis and the summit which is populated not just be keen mountain climbers but very many badly prepared people with little outdoor adventure experience often on coach trips stumbling down after a ride up in the train. Many of these people have no idea of any etiquette to anyone they meet but by number are an important part of the local visitor economy which is why the locals led the demand for the order. The reason the ranger bridleway was included in the agreement was to avoid the risk of riders going up Rangers to the summit then in ignorance or cheek riding down to Llanberis during the embargo hours.

Although some of the wardens can be quite miserable this is often as a result of having to deal with some equally uncomfortable members of the public who can jaundice their views of people who appear similar on subsequent meetings.. i think it's called predjudice. I do know many local riders who have reported getting onto the Ranger Path by error, but with innocent intentions (no one has watches in Wales), slightly on the wrong side of the time embargo and on meeting Wardens have stopped and had quite cordial friendly chats with them. It's probably a matter of respect, because if all goes wrong you might be hoping a Warden to help haul the half dead carcass, off the mountain, of you or a friend, as comfortably as he can. If you find yourself coming on the mountain after 10 check your riding stile and if stopped suggest you have had to deal with a serious mechanical problem making you late, if it's less than half an hour before 5 just push your bike till 5

Higgo you clearly know an awful lot about these things.

Ta.

If you find yourself coming on the mountain after 10 check your riding stile

You are welcome Higgo.

It was a well known in BHS circles that until the last 5 years, that if you found a stile in Snowdonia you might well be on a bridleway, the park wardens were often known to collude with farmers and place stiles on bridleways as farmers believed ramblers left gates open and in an effort to keep the farmers onside with conservation the national park facilitated the supply of stiles rather than gates.

The walkers I've ridden passed both up and down have been quite excellent. Most commenting on my rougé face, rasping breath and tenatious attenpts to get as far up the trail as I physically can - then dismount!

If in doubt, walk it, as that would potentially spoil it for the rest of us.