[Closed] Ticket for doing 61mph!!!!!

U sure it was 61 in a 60 limit? Perhaps it was a 50 limit or something?

Can't believe you'd be done going 1mph over the limit.

what is the offence code?

At the moment I just have the notice of intended prosecution. I can't find an offence code. It was on the A703 Leadburn Straight, don't think its less than 60mph.

I've never heard of or seen a 60 mph limit, it must have been a 50mph.

I kind of get the feeling that the road was likely to be a 40 or 50 Limit, as in normal circumstances the Speed Safety Process Units normally allow for the error you find in the run of the mill speedometers. Normally 10% + 2mph, i.e 30 Limit = 35mph 40 Limit = 46mph etc. Though technically you could be done for speeding after being only 1mph over the limit in force. As a Traffic Officer would normally say "A ticks a tick Sir" but that would be rather pedantic and open to challenge at any subsequent Process Stage.

There will be a Tel No. on the NIP give them a call they're only human and will probably clear up any confusion.

that van is there all the time. i passed it on my way to glentress today! (just got back from a great days riding!) is it possible the 61mph they are charging you with already takes into account some leeway? say they clocked you at 66mph and allow 5mph for inaccurate speedos?

I've never heard of or seen a 60 mph limit, it must have been a 50mph.

National speed limit for single carriage road is 60 mph, the white circle with black line signifies this

Thats what I thought. As I said its an A road and I'm pretty sure its a 60mph limit. Certainly not the kind of road where 61mph is dangerous.

There are countless 60 limits, I pass one such sign every day.

They will not book you for 1mph over and the notification relates to your actaul speed, not counting any innaccracies. You were either mistaken regarding the limit at that point or they sent it by mistake.

I saw the van in plenty of time and thought I was going slow enough. Surely if they have clocked you doing 61mph the leeway comes in after this. If they had clocked me at 66mph I'd have thought they'd just charge me at that.

Surely if they have clocked you doing 61mph the leeway comes in after this. If they had clocked me at 66mph I'd have thought they'd just charge me at that.

Correct.

That bit of road is a 60 limit. You were probably doing 70mph or so when you they caught you. 10%ish for speedo error and a little bit more for driver error.

The other week I passed a speed camera van on the way to Peebles. Yesterday I got a letter through the door

How long ago was it?
If you don't receive the nto within 14 days of the alleged offence,its null & void.

As I said I saw the van in plenty time so wasn't doing seventy, didn't slow down to 50 either but I'd say I was doing 60 give or take a couple of miles.

It was only a week ago

You werent driveing a non car derived van where you, eg a transit.Different speed limits for vans.

Citreon dispatch, so not a big van.

Project thats just what i was gonna say , i got done for 58mph on a national limit single road did not know it was 50 for a van

stevenmenmuir...thats why mate ya van..mines a SWBase Vivaro really p****d me off as i saw the gatso and made sure i was under 60mph

So somebody in a Chelsea Tractor which is bigger and heavier than my van can do 60 and I can't.

Thats right its crap....its all to do with pay load and windows apparently i have been through all that and it stands

I've never heard of or seen a 60 mph limit, it must have been a 50mph.

National speed limit for single carriage road is 60 mph, the white circle with black line signifies this

Well there you go and I've been driving for 20 years, anyhows you were speeding you got caught, MTFU and and pay the fine.

[i]pretty sure its a 60mph limit. Certainly not the kind of road where 61mph is dangerous. [/i]
maybe not dangerous, but over the legal limit. Pay up and quit whining.

Ask them for proof that they correctly calibrated their equipment that day (A legal requirement in order for them to be able to prosecute you anyway), and say that you are concerned that being caught doing 61mph is a open to speedo error, and as far as you were concerned you were sticking rigidly to 60mph on your speedo.

If you were doing 80 it would not be worth contesting it, but at 61mph I'd do anything/everything possible to contest it as it's so easy to creep 1 or 2mph over a limit without realising at all, so in my opinion it's pretty unjust to collar you for 61!

Regarding Smee's post, that's totally incorrect. They would not clock you at say 66mph, then allow 10% for error and quote 61mph... If they clock you at 66, they'll tell you 66. It's just usually you wouldn't get done for doing say 65mph in a 60 even, as they allow for a margin of error, but as soon as that margin is exceeded, that's when they'll use their discretion (or not) and nab you!

Oops, didnt realise you were in a van! Yup, you're restricted to 50 in 60s and, IIRC, 60 on dual cabbageways, but 70 on motorways.

Reason being you can carry (that class of vehicle) up to 7.5 tonnes (even though the van may not be capable). A laden chelsea tractor will weigh less than your van fully loaded.

If ya van can be 2 tonne loaded its the reduced limit im afraid.. even if you had nothing in it and it is lighter than a 4b4 or an mpv with 5 fat people in it you are 50mph on single lane and 60 on dual carrige way only on a motor way can yo do 70mph.....

Any road works going on?

You need to check the speed limit of that area pronto and fight it out.

usually you can getaway with it being %10 e.g. 66 in a 60 area.

My GF went to caught because she said that her car was serviced and the mechanics didn't reset her clock properly so she went through a 20mph school zone at 30.

They let her off in court. She's scary when angry...I couldn't believe it-they would have added more points to me and given me a fine...

So go to caught and fight it out and hope the judge is a lady that fancies you.

do some people have an auto-responder set for speeding threads? seems that way....

Not whining AndyP just finding out where I stand. If I'm in the wrong I'll pay the fine. If I'd wanted a whinge I'd have started a thread about the Police chasing people for going a little bit over the limit rather than doing something more useful.

mboy - what do people have on a car to let them know what speed they are doing? Yes its a speedometer. Say the speedo was reading 70 they actual speed would be closer to 60.

So where is the totally incorrect bit now?

If the wheels and/or tyres have been changed that may make a difference to the speedometer read out. By law, with standards wheels and tyres fitted, the speedometer must read at least 10% over the actual speed. The speed camera will use actual speed. I think the vehicle class is the most likely explanantion as it is likely for 61mph real speed, your in van speedometer reading would have been at least 66mph. I have checked mine with a gps and it does read 10% over.

i thought it was 10 % eitherway u were allowed. one way to get off is to see wether the police calibraed their radar before the incident

Smee - Member

mboy - what do people have on a car to let them know what speed they are doing? Yes its a speedometer. Say the speedo was reading 70 they actual speed would be closer to 60.

So where is the totally incorrect bit now?

I am going to dignify this response by outlining that this is going to be the LAST TIME EVER that I am going to respond to anything you say Smee, as despite the fact you are just a man on a computer hundreds of miles away from me with an ill informed opinion of his own on every topic, that you always confuse with fact, you really wind me up so I'm going to have to ignore you from now on as it's not healthy being wound up by someone you don't even know!

Anyway... If your speedo in the car says 70mph, you're more likely doing 66-67mph in my experience of car speedos (compared to an accurate GPS speedo at least), though some will be dead accurate, and some over-read by as much as 10%.

The point being, the copper that catches you has a radar gun that is supposed to be dead accurate. HE DOES NOT have a camera pointing at the speedo in your car. He's taking a reading of your actual speed, so you may be showing 65mph say on the speedo before you even exceed 60mph. There will then usually be an inbuilt 10% tolerance, or up to 10%, on top of this. So you could be showing over 70mph on the speedo in a 60 before you'd get nicked even. Though you'd be more likely doing 66-67mph actually.

The Police can only prosecute you based upon FACT. Their equipment, properly calibrated, gives them a FACT. The speed you were doing at a point in time. They cannot manipulate this, "correct for speedo error", or do anything else at all to the data they get from their gun. Other than quote it at you when asking for your money and putting points on your license.

I only wish you were a troll, but having read several posts to the contrary on this forum in the past, I know this not to be true. To go through life always being right, when everyone else disagrees with you on everything, must be so rewarding for you... They do say that ignorance is bliss though! And you wonder why people (not me) give you such unadulterated abuse on this forum!!!

stonemonkey - Member

i thought it was 10 % eitherway u were allowed. one way to get off is to see wether the police calibraed their radar before the incident

That's the way I understand it. And yes, the police need to provide evidence that the equipment was properly calibrated that day before use, otherwise it's an instant case dismissal!

There is also the old "sorry, it's a company vehicle, it could have been any one of 5 drivers driving that day, so without a photo of the driver I couldn't tell you who it was" excuse... Seen that one work for a lot of people!

I got flashed by a temporary camera in some M6 roadworks, was doing about 62 in a 50 limit in my van.

Was about 8pm Thurs 12 Mar - No Notice of Intended Prosecution has turned up yet.

Have I got away with it? (i.e.explain the 14 day rule to me pls)

Correct me if i'm wrong....
BUT...Under construction and use regs, speedos are not allowed to under-read, they do have inaccuracies as any device will have tolerances but they can not under read, hence why they over read, when your speedo says you are doing 70 you are prob doing 66-67mph but it will never be the case that your speedo would say you are doing 70 and you are actually doing over 70, the 10% is the accuracy the speedo has to produce but it will only ever be over reading, so maybe at worst you are doing 64 and the speedo says 70, never the other way round and given the modern car is more advanced with fancy onboard electronics you will find the accurary is much better than the old fashioned mechanical drives. Obviously, if you change the profiling of the rubber or size of your wheels the speedo will be out but on standard setup there would be no chance of under rreading, i know maybe 4 or 5 people who have been done for 41 in a 40.

Yellow Belly - Member

I got flashed by a temporary camera in some M6 roadworks, was doing about 62 in a 50 limit in my van.

Was about 8pm Thurs 12 Mar - No Notice of Intended Prosecution has turned up yet.

Have I got away with it? (i.e.explain the 14 day rule to me pls)

The 14 day rule, as I understand it, is quite simple. If you hear from them within 14 days wanting some money from you, and offering you some points for your license, you gotta fess up/contest it. If they don't contact you (via letter) within 14 days, that's it, automatically the case is now defunct/dismissed, and they can't do anything to get you now!

@Yellow Belly
The ruling is that the police have to send the NIP (notice of intended prosecution) witthin 14 days, if they don't then they can't enforce it, if they send it they then can take their sweet ass time and i think they have some crazy long time of 6 months or maybe 2 years to take it further, HOWEVER.... the 14 day rule only applys if they don't try and send it, I have heard of cases where if the reg'd keeper isn't upto date or if there is hassle due to a company car and the like then the 14 days can be over-ruled and the case still taken on.

Regarding getting off on the police calibration thing... be careful how and where you try it, if its a stationary camera then maybe worth a punt but if its in car then not a chance, as will be vascar or maybe off the police cars own speedometer which are classed as calibrated and thus fine. You will just "annoy" them.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

50mph for your van on a single carriageway road. Even a Ford Transit Connect (postman pat van) is subject to the lower limits. If it's any consolation, most people don't know.

Re the 14 day rule,the police have to send the NIP to the [b]registered keeper[/b] within 14 days.
So,if the car/van is registered in your name you should receive it directly to your address within the allowed time.However,if its a company vehicle,the NIP will go to the registered keeper,who then have up to 28 days (iirc) to return it,filled in,with the drivers details.They (police) will then send a NIP to you,the driver.

OP - where was the van? Driven to GT from the Burgh many times (via Howgate) and never seen it

South of entrance to Glenrath Farm. Or in other words the long straight after Leadburn. There's some chicken sheds opposite.

Didn't know that about vans, so this thread has some use besides fighting 😉

mboy - so you're agreeing with me then.

Aye the van was there Thursday lunchtime this week. There are some timing blobs on the road just at the layby. Around Grid Ref NT243529

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/vanspeedlimits

Link to the speed limits.

Check the NIP to see if there is anything about taking a speed awareness course,it costs about £80 plus the day off work instead of the £60 fine but you won't get the points on your license.

[i]some will be dead accurate, and some over-read by as much as 10%.[/i]

I did some experiments with my two Hondas, comparing speedo readings with GPS. One closely matched the GPS, the other was about 10% lower.

Never having had a van, I didn't know there were different limits. Interesting.

I was always led to believe,that if your van is white, then the speed limit is 90mph

I used to work in the Magistrates and had to deal with this kind of stuff day in, day out. Anything you do to be awkward (asking for calibration, don't know who was driving etc) will most likely work against you, best thing you can do is send an accompanying letter querying why you are being penalised for such a small infringement. Be polite and act a bit upset about being 'in trouble with the law' (even though you know it's minor and no copper will ever speak to you about it let alone cart you off to jail!)

They will then explain, if applicable, the rule regarding being in a van, and most likely, due to the circumstance offer you the awareness course which leaves you to pay costs for the course, but no points on your licence.

I'm sure all the folk posting about speedo's reading over etc are right - but all thinking GPS is accurate? It's not. Or rather you can't say it is without information on the errors, the constellation of satellites in use and the filtering algorithm in use by the satnav software. GPS is no-where near as good as most people think, even very, very expensive DGPS systems. It's a lot of clever filtering and fitting algorithms that make tom-toms and the like seem as good as they are. For average speed over a reasonable distance the GPS will be very good however. But to get a better idea what your speedo reads, you're probably just better getting a stopwatch and using the blobs on the road like the police. (disclaimer: i don't know what algorithms etc tom-toms use, it's probably a trade secret. But i have worked with processing data gps systems etc before).

Oh, and all the people debating it - the issue was he was in a van, so was done for being 11mph over - more like 20% not 10.

I must admit i never knew about the lower limits for vans, was aware for minibuses and the like, but i suppose the OP was doing 11mph over the limit so not a minor infraction.

waynekerr
I was always led to believe,that if your van is white, then the speed limit is 90mph

Wrong. There is no limit for white vans.

Wrong. There is no limit for white vans

Again incorrect, all white vans are limited to the speed of the car infront, at which they are flashing their headlights!!!

[i]"but all thinking GPS is accurate"[/i]

I think you can assume consistency in how the system and device works from run to run. Although it depends on the number and relative velocity of the satellites at the time, but if you do a few runs and eliminate the peaks and troughs this variation is small compared with what you are measuring.

Comparing all the runs, my Civic was consistency close to the GPS reading, while my Accord was consistently and noticably below, about 5mph below at 50mph.

Sadly for us, radar guns are very accurate at measuring your approach velocity, assuming they don't get jammed.[url= http://www.radarguns.com/how-radar-guns-work.html ]how radar guns work[/url]

There is also the old "sorry, it's a company vehicle, it could have been any one of 5 drivers driving that day, so without a photo of the driver I couldn't tell you who it was" excuse... Seen that one work for a lot of people!

That doesnt work anymore AFAIK as you have to keep a drivers log ? and if no one admits to the offence then the MD would be prosecuted.
That isnt going to happen is it ?

We have to have a drivers log in each works vehicle. (NHS trust) Not sure if this is the law or just our organisation's way of managing 'unclaimed' speeding and parking fines.

"I think you can assume consistency in how the system and device works from run to run."

That's precisely what you can't assume (unless it's in the same place at a similar time, with a similar view of the sky). As I said it depends on the constellation of satellites in use. The accuracy varies along different planes dependant on this.

To give a (very) simplified example, imagine all the satellites are in a line, and the only method used for position is triangulation. You get very low error in one axis (across the line), and very high in the other (along the line).

am i correct in thinking that the lower speed limits i.e. van limits are valid for a nissan navara pick up?

Yep, it's designed as a commercial / goods vehicle, not a car.
As is the Dispatch.

Remember the police only have to SEND the NIP within 14 days you do NOT have to receive it within 14 days .. and it goes to the registered keeper.

Maybe its an urban myth but I thought there was a bit of leeway to allow for speedometers that aren't exact.

Spedo's can read incorrectly.. but spedos have to be calibrated to only read fast within tolerance.
A speedo cannot read slow.. i.e if you are travelling at 60mph, your speedo cannot read anything below 60mph, it can however read above 60mph (infact anything over up to 15%.
This info is as per the kit car Single Vehicle Approval compliancy.

So, you actually have no excuse if your speedo is wrong.

I got done by a private speed camera van in a 50.. mighty annoyed as it was parked in a hard shoulder on a dual carriage way, but I didn't have the piece of mind to go back and get a photo of it(illegally parked?)
Anyway, I believe they sell their fines to the police, so its in their interest to sell every speeding offense whether it be +1mph or more.
Private speed camera vans are worse that static speed cameras, they don't make considered judgment and they ALWAYS have film. 😮

Private speed cameras?

Post on here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=10&mid=70159

I'd also question when the camera in question was last calibrated. Basically if I was getting ****ed for the sake of 1mph I'd want to know that ALL their equipment and procedures were spot on first. I don't believe in the arguement above that it gets peoples backs up when its a citizens right to know that he is being prosecuted [b]fairly[/b]. Sorry if that creates more administration for you poor deary's.

hora, keep up! He was driving a van, therefore he's been done for 11mph over the legal speed limit, not 1mph.

Steve, I passed that van too last Saturday, about 8:30ish. A car coming the other way flashed their lights to warn me (also illegal) but as it was I caught up with a guy doing 50mph so was well under.

Ah, oops. Well in that case he should be prosecuted for driving a van too slow TBH 8)

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law in the eyes of the law.

Vans 70mph,
Lories/lgvs, 56
coaches 65,

Lorries and coaches not allowed in the 3 or 4 lane of motorways as well.

Project - can we have that in English this time?

project is Judge Dredd

You cannot use ignorance of a law as an excuse for breaking that law.

So you could drive the wrong way down a road and plead you did not know it was illegal because you had no insight of that law.

lgv= large goods vehicle

Coach, a bus with high backed seats, not used on stage carrige works usually.

Project - What the hell are you talking about?

Jesus...so in my new Berlingo (notice how I had to put "new" in there?...cock!!), I'm limited to 50 on a normal road and 60 on a DC...****, why didn't anyone tell me that before???!!!!

Yeah, I know it's my responsibility, but you'd have thought someone in the dealership or one of my smartarse, know-it-all "mates" (having a rethink on each and every one of them now) who know it's my first van after years of using an estate for work would have told me..."you do realise now Mr. Darcy, that you need to reconsider the speeds at which you're driving".

Thank **** for STW!!

Deadlydarcy - check what it is registered as. This is a grey area that can lead to two identical vehicles being subject to two different speed limits. These smaller vans can be registered as car-derived vans or commercial vehicles....

Looks like I'll be paying the fine then. At least a few us are now a bit wiser after the event.

I think only things like fiesta or Clio vans are subject to normal speed limits. I'm so glad I read this thread.

Me too now i'll be driving my White van slowly now, where the Fusing Hell was a letter through the post or ought advising me of such. 👿

DeadlyDarcy it all depends on what its taxed as, my Kia Sedona weighs more empty than a Citroen Dispatch is bigger overall but is not limited to the speed limits.

A Berlingo has a maximum weight under 2 tonnes,

A Dispatch has a maximum weight of 2.6 Tonnes

Any commercial vehicle which has a maximum weight of over two tonnes is subject to the restrictions below.

50mph on A roads
60mph on dual carriageways.

More info here

[url] http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Driving/DefensiveDriving/Speed/UK_Speed_limits.html [/url]

Me too now i'll be driving my White van slowly now, where the Fusing Hell was a letter through the post or ought advising me of such.