[Closed] WoodworkTrackWorld - Help with joints and construction of a cabinet

Depends how much time you want to spend on it (sometimes the fun is in the making) but given what you've got access to I wouldn't have any qualms about building that with pocket holes and glue.

Not sure if that's open at the back but if it is i'd probably add a back panel to generally tidy it up and help keep everything square.

Biscuits would be cheap and easy method of constructing the cabinet. If you dont have a biscuit jointer you can purchase a slotting cutter to use in a router which does the same job. The shelf could be housed into the sides.

I'd do that with pocket screws or buy a domino (i've been almost pulling the trigger for 6 months now!).

I'd pocket hole, because it's unbelievably quick.
Just make sure you set the jig up correctly using the instructions.
I would also do a test piece before hand (especially to test your clamping).

But many other methods are better (either stronger or more attractive).

I recently built a TV unit with very similar dimensions in 18mm ply. I used pocket holes and glue to assemble the outer frame. I routed dados on the inside faces of the outer frame and slotted the internal shelves and dividers in with glue, but pocket holes would probably have worked OK.
Pocket hole joints will be plenty strong enough for your project, and they are very neat and easy to put together. Routing dados so that everyone lines up correctly and fits nicely is a bit harder, I find.

Have you considered splitting your upper section in two, and maybe having an open shelf where you can access your DVD player etc (and use remote control) and hiding the messy stuff behind the doors?

I would biscuit joint it for easy alignment and strength, then pocket hole it where it won't be seen, glue and screws to bring it together.

Maybe put a back on the top bit too, to keep it rigid, even if you cut cable access holes in it innit. 👍

Pocket holes will be strong enough, but I have found you need to pre-drill oak, as there's a high risk of the wood splitting or shearing the screws as you drive them in.

Also I would recommend some big sash clamps to make sure the joints are perfectly lined up and tight while you screw it together. It's really easy to move 1-2mm as you tighten the screws and once that happens you can't really fix it without further bodging.

Have you considered splitting your upper section in two, and maybe having an open shelf where you can access your DVD player etc (and use remote control) and hiding the messy stuff behind the doors?

Yes, but I'm weighing up the benefits compared to having everything in a (potentially lockable) cupboard with a small child around.

Pocket holes will be strong enough, but I have found you need to pre-drill oak, as there’s a high risk of the wood splitting or shearing the screws as you drive them in.

The oak splitting is my big worry. How do you pre-drill and keep it all accurate and aligned? Also with my current design, using pocket holes would mean the screws holding the top on would be heading out towards the end grain of the top piece, rather than into the main 'meat' of the wood.

Also I would recommend some big sash clamps to make sure the joints are perfectly lined up and tight while you screw it together. It’s really easy to move 1-2mm as you tighten the screws and once that happens you can’t really fix it without further bodging.

I've looked at right-angle clamps that hold the corners perfectly aligned (supposedly)

I'll research biscuit joints, not something I've looked at yet. Are they stronger than dowel?

I've looked more into the Festool Domino, these sell second-hand for almost as much as new. I could buy one, use it for all of the current things I need to use it for then sell it on..... the problem is that I probably wouldn't want to sell it after!

I'm still considering dowel joints too. Is there an accurate jig that will do L, E and T joints? This one from Axminister looks good, but will only do L and E joints https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-no-1-dowelling-jig-410233

The cheapest kreg jig is better than the more expensive ones and if you get the 1.25 inch fine screws they work fine on oak. The right angle clamps don't keep it square, it's the cutting that does that. Make a l shape out of mdf and clamp that to the cabinet to hold it square.

Have a proper look at biscuit jointing , it is affordable and perfectly suited to what you want to do , dowels are painfully slow without expensive kit - do not be tempted by the Tridon dowler its a howler by all accounts.
So a decent Makita or Dewalt or main name biscuit jointer will last you forever , just need a flat surface to reference off - can even use the material you are jointing, the router cutter option for biscuits is severely limiting - not worth the bother.
Pocket holes are great too and as Mr K23 says above - a mixture of biscuit and pocket will do the job perfectly.

The oak splitting is my big worry. How do you pre-drill and keep it all accurate and aligned? Also with my current design, using pocket holes would mean the screws holding the top on would be heading out towards the end grain of the top piece, rather than into the main ‘meat’ of the wood.

There are softwood and hardwood pocket hole screws - make sure you get the hardwood ones (they have a finer thread).

https://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-washer-head-pocket-hole-screws-trade-pack-502479

I would biscuit joint it for easy alignment and strength

Have a proper look at biscuit jointing

Any recommendations for online resources where someone isn't slating biscuit joints or doing side by side strength tests of edge gluing vs biscuit jointed wood? 🙂 Joking aside, someone like Peter Millard but for biscuit joints rather than Festool Dominos would be great.

Looks like a Makita or Dewalt biscuit jointer is in the region of £200-250. I'd hope these had accuracy and other advantages over cheaper models from other brands. A biscuit joiner an "enabler" product, as is a Festool Domino. By that, I mean it speeds up a process and adds accuracy. Does a Domino "enable" or open up far more possibilities than a biscuit joiner? A Domino seems to be able to do what a biscuit joiner can do and more. E.g. you could make a chair with Domino joints but perhaps not with biscuit joints. Essentially I'm trying to weigh up investing a decent biscuit joiner vs a longer/wider view on a Domino and what it can do.

I think the cheaper fall back on not buying either would be a decent manual dowelling jig and pocket hole screws. I could suffer the dowelling process for this one project I think, but reckon it's less likely "enable" or inspire me to take on similar projects.

Jesus Christ I just had a look at how much a Festool Domino is!!! I'd have to sell my 3 kids for medical experiments to but that 😂

I may go for the cowboy option...

Stick with it, it's quite entertaining once you get past the American 'humour'.

Buy, not but.

Bloody fat fingers!😂

I have used biscuit joints a lot in the past, but have recently started using a £20 Wolfcraft doweling jig and it's great. Would be ideal for the OP's cabinet in conjunction with the fine thread pocket hole screws.

Jig: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0001P19PY
Drill: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0001P19FY
How it works (worth watching): https://youtu.be/mkScV-iRmC4?t=149

(Either that or get a router and go the whole hog with finger jointed corners and a dados for the shelves!).

Jesus Christ I just had a look at how much a Festool Domino is!!!

Not cheap at all! But then you look at what people make with one and go "Oh.... that looks good".

It is fair to say that there are tons of videos comparing domino , biscuit , dowel, and pocket hole.
almost invariably they concentrate on some single 90 degree joint and are frankly very misleading ,
they often get excited about ultimate strength when actually ease of use and cost are more relevant , doweling is cheapest but very much the most difficult , pocket holes start very cheap but
are exposed and take some thought , biscuits are reasonably cheap and invisible , main strength is ease of use , domino is great but spectacularly expensive .
With care a cheaper biscuit jointer will work fine , some have poor fences , for your project they will be fine, they also do not really wear out so used is a good option - its just an angle grinder with a blade and fence , they are cheap enough , look for a second hand AEG or clone or Freud , £50 and you will be up and running.

Biscuit jointers are brilliant for panel construction. They make lining up edges really easy. What they also give you is a little bit of wiggle room along the joint so you can align things as you assemble.

Domino jointers do all that of course, but whenever I'm doing panel type construction, I reach for the biscuit jointer, not the domino. The domino is better suited to deeper joints such as chair/table rails etc.

With a panel construction, you generally only have about 18mm of depth to play with. You can't go any deeper so a domino isn't an advantage here. A domino is narrower than a biscuit so really, a biscuit is a good option. If you want to get wiggle room with a domino, you set it to a wider oscillation. However, this gives you gaps either side of your standard width domino. To me, a biscuiter handles this situation better.

As far as the cost of a biscuit jointer goes, I wouldn't say you need to spend mega bucks. Mine is a crappy cheap one I got many years ago from Screwfix made by Ferm. I keep meaning to buy a new one but to be honest, it does the job just fine. I'm not sure Ferm even exist any more. It cost me about £25 at the time.

You can argue that with a biscuit jointer, consistency is more important than accuracy. It is important that the cut is parallel with the base and fence but the other day I tested both my cheap biscuiter and my colleagues posh £400 Lamello biscuiter. The cuts on both of them were off parallel by a tiny fraction of a millimetre.

This really didn't affect the joint as with biscuits you get this very small amount of wiggle room, as the biscuits are designed to expand when they get wet via the adhesive.

Domino biscuits do the same but again, the proper Festool dominoes are crazy expensive. I'm a cheapskate and make my own out of ply or hardwood 😂

There is an Erbauer biscuiter at Screwfix for around £50. It gets good reviews. I'd get that and a pocket hole jig. Just pilot hole your Oak before screwing it together.

Biscuits for alignment and extra strength, screws for clamping pressure.  If you've already got a dowel jig, use that and a pocket hole jig. Otherwise, I'd personally go the biscuit and pocket route.

I managed to get my domino jointer for £325 second hand, so was happy with that, but yeah, for what you're doing, I'd go biscuit personally.

I echo what Kayak has said only to add that I use the 0 biscuit to align panels but then screw through to hold stuff together. Prefer this over the pocket hole most of the time.
Domino XL gets used for making doors and sash windows as the time saving over mortice and tenon joints is massive.

I echo what Kayak has said only to add that I use the 0 biscuit to align panels but then screw through to hold stuff together. Prefer this over the pocket hole most of the time.

Aye, me too. Pocket holes are good when you don't want to see the screws and also don't have a big rack of sash cramps to cramp it up proper! Most carcasses I just screw right through, but will always biscuit too if it needs it. 👍

Domino XL gets used for making doors and sash windows

I'd love one of them. I have the small one at the moment. #toolenvy

Another little thought op. What you could do is to screw it together from the outside but use a plug cutter,and make plugs in a contrasting timber. Even perhaps to match the colour of your doors.... maybe. You've already got a single hole as your handle pull so it might echo that quite nicely.

Providing you plan and Mark the screw position accurately that can look pretty nice, kind of like through-dowel pegs.

What about Minifix KD cam and dowel fittings - like the ones Ikea use?
Chinese jigs are available now that are far cheaper than the Hafeale ones

To muddy the water... Have a look at Mitre Lock joints. You can get dedicated mitre lock router bits but you can get the same result with one pass with your saw to make the mitre and one with a straight router bit to make the channel for the lock. Leaving the 'lock' exposed can look nice - especially in oak  having a little detail of endgrain showing  or you can use a contrasting wood-  but you can also make the groove for a lock  a blind cut so the lock element is hidden. Allows you to make a nice 'waterfall' corner where the grain flows from the top the the side panel without being interrupted by exposed end grain.

If you we're making blind ones with a bit of care you could cut the groove for the lock with you rail saw

A bit like biscuits etc the result is more surface area for glue and the lock piece holds everything alignment for easier clamping - I was making little picture frames like this as a present and just used tape to hold them while the glue dries.

Thanks, great input from you all!

Have a look at Mitre Lock joints

I have looked into these, mainly because it hides the end grain as you say. I'm not sure about (me) cutting one with a track saw though. It requires a table if done with a router, and the bits (for 18mm) seem to be a 1/2" shank due to the size of the bit. Sensible as it's a larger bit. I am going get a decent router, but haven't looked at 1/2" ones. A mitre join would look very nice with the wood I have. I could biscuit a mitre join, but that would rely on the accuracy of the fence of any biscuit jointer used, whereas for 90 deg I can reference from the base of the unit.

Is a 1/2 router as useful outside of a table? That said getting one in and out of table is added faff.

Is a 1/2 router as useful outside of a table?

exactly as useful as a 1/4 one really, probably more so in most applications, they're only a tad bigger but you get a much bigger range of cutters available to you. especially when looking at better quality cutters.

I think you'd only need to use a purpose made cutter if you were doing the work a lot as it just removes a step. If you're happy that you could cut the mitre alone accurately enough  then adding the groove for the lock can be done quite simply with a bit of care with either a handheld router and straight  cutter or a rail saw.

 I could biscuit a mitre join, but that would rely on the accuracy of the fence of any biscuit jointer used,

Yeah but it's pimpsy.