[Closed] Has this happened to your Fox forks?

Dirt got under the seals, stays there and wore away the anodising. Very common in forks which don't have the seals lifted regularly for a clean and a lube. Affects all brands, but fox do seem quite prone to it. The manual says lift the seals and clean every 15 hours of use.

yep happens to loads and you will be told it's your fault.
my f100 rlc's are wearing out slowly not as bad as yours mind. i do the dust wiper service about once a month.
in away i am not arsed though because my stanchions have allways creaked like mad in the crown.
anyone know how much a kashima upgrade is?

Oscaaarrrrr.......... reckon you should have lifted the seals mate 😉

Working by logic, you say you hang the bike up by the front wheel. I assume that this has over ten months put a pressure dip in the fork seal/wiper where the weight of the bike has been and this combined with use has allowed dirt in past the seal/wiper and thus wear in that area mainly used in the everday riding suspension travel.
Its only my theory and I have no Fox forks so cant speak from experience.

All Fox forks do it. It's our fault.

Not enough lube - top bush running dry is my bet

kashima coating won't offer more protection, it'll just be even more expensive to replace...*

(*i'm just feeling a little sceptical this evening)

Welcome to the world of suspension forks! You have classic stanchion wear caused by bits of dirt in the seals and poor servicing. Forks need a lot more tlc than a service every 10 months. There's no way to fix what you have, you can either buy new forks or run them further into the ground

do you use muc-off on them ?

try to store them upside down. then the oil slowly weeps past the bushes keeping them lubed. obviously not those, they're ****ed. but any replacement.

kashima coating won't offer more protection, it'll just be even more expensive to replace...*

Yep happened to mine, lifting the seals is no good, remove the lowers and clean regular.

Nail varnish them up and then the finest wet and dry you can get.
Loads of people have done this - [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stantion-scratch-boo ]advice here.[/url]. You have nothing to lose.
The real experts use epoxy, but this is much harder to buff smooth.

Also try enduro seals, I rate them a lot, seem to keep the crap out more and also the forks run smoother.

That has never happened to a Fox fork before, ever. And there's absolutely no chance it'd happen again with Kashima legs or with the new seals- after all, it's not as if they've claimed they've fixed the problem half a dozen times before...

Course, to be fair it does happen to other brands, just not as often. And the only person I know of that's had it with Rockshox got them rebuilt under warranty, no questions asked.

Seen it on a few sets of Fox forks. Did you have the lower leg bushes replaced along with the crown steerer unit? The reson I ask is there are some grooves in the bushes to allow oil to pass to lubricate the upper part of the stanchions. As the bushes wear the grooves dissapear leaveing less path for lubrication. Imho the worst causes seem to be useing a large front rotor (203)mm as it it always the left leg that wears worse. The vanilas seem less effected, i guess this is because there is a fair bit more lub oil sloshing around in the leg. Talas forks a very little lube oil (10 ml for some versions) in the left leg, floats a little more (30ml). If any of the oil is lost o it becomes contaminated with dirty water the lubrication is almost zero.

Simple DESIGN FAULT. Simply solved by not buying Fox. I wouldn't even buy a bike with Fox forks on.

Surely as things wear there would be more space for the fluid to get through?

Servicing helps, also washing around the seals after every ride if its muddy.

I have had 3 pairs of Fox forks in the past 4 years, not one pair have shown signs of wear.

Has this happened to your Fox forks?

Of course it has, it's happened to every pair of Fox forks ever made except for about 4, the owners of which will be along in a minute to tell you it's all your fault for using them outdoors.

Surely as things wear there would be more space for the fluid to get through?

Well not exactly. As they the 2 parts wear they wear together. So the stanchion and bush are bedded into the exact radius of the other part, and the oil grooves wear away. This causes the oil to be scraped of the stanchion by the edge of the bearing / bush, giving loss of lubrication. Further to this, as the bushes & seals wear more water / dirt can be drawn down into the oil causing the oil to break down. Under brakeing, like going down hill fast then useing the front brake quite hard on rough ground, a great deal of the force is applied to the left leg top bush as the calliper trys to force the lower leg to turn forward. Result wear.
Imho rockshox dont seem to suffer from this as often.

Just use fork lube. Cost about £9, spray on every other ride or 5 and this won't happen. Simples.

Rubbish

Samuel, wear like this doesn't happen overnight. Have you ever lifted/cleaned the seals & lubricated the foam rings with the Fox blue lube.....ever ? I'm keen to avoid this happening to my 36's.

D.

scottfitz - Member

Just use fork lube. Cost about £9, spray on every other ride or 5 and this won't happen. Simples.

Mince.

The beauty of Fox forks is that they are really easy to perform a basic clean n wipe service on them. Something the OP hasn't done, oh well you live and learn.

You'll see a few small grooves on the outside of the fork seal. Using a small screw friver (flat head that fits in the groove and with the metal tip covered by some electrical type) start levering the seal until it pops out. This will give you access to the foam ring (which you can lubricate with either 7.5 WT suspension oil or Fox Fluid)

Also using either a cotton swab with some grease get underneath the seal and clean the crap out. ALternatively you can stick two or three strip of electrical tape to the stanchion and lift the seal onto, and rotate it as you lift. Any dirt inide the seal will be collected on the edge of the strip.

Obv this won't solve your problems but it will
a) avoid further damage to the stanchion
b) make your fork feel a lot better - i imagine it probably feels as bad as it looks

I ride 3-4 times a week and run a Fox 36 VAN from 2008 which i've had for 2 and a half years and i tend to carry out this process every week if i've been riding a lot. I'll admit i quite enjoy it, but it also makes the fork feels smooth.

Have you been using chain oil to lube the fork stanchions?

Can't help feeling that Fox forks are rubbish, I have 2006 Pikes that have been serviced twice, 2008 Revalations that have been serviced once and 2003 Bombers that have been serviced once. None have any particular wear to the stanchions.

Are we seriously saying that you would have to lift the fork seals and service them halfway through a 24 hour race to comply with the warranty?

Northwind Mince.

Wouldn't necessarily disagree if you're talking about the fork lube bit but disgree with your sentiment. A 2minute bit of maintenance after each ride is all ANY fork needs. Quick wipe around the seal, apply some 5 or 10wt fork oil around the stanchions, pump them up and down then wipe off excess. If you can't do that you don't deserve the benefits.
But I like my fox forks simply because, well, frankly, all the cool kids have them. Seriously.

@neallyman: I'm a cool kid & you're right, I do have em!

This has happened to mine, got them second hand with new enduro seals but just purchased new seal kit because of this thread - thanks. 😉

There's life in em yet. BTW - 08 Fox Talas RL 140. Super dooper...

its a shame like crank bros pedals in use floats are the best forks around
they just weren't designed/tested with mud in mind
you'll have to do the nail varnish trick as mentioned above and ride them till they die
then buy some open bath marzocchis because any fork you have to service half way through a 24 Hr race isn't really worth the silly amount of money they cost

I have had 4 pairs of fox and no hasn't happened to me as I service mine regularly - My 2011 F120's are great - Kashima def more robust and the seal are better - I had a very tiny amount to scoring on my Talas forks coz I was a bit lazy - also fitted some enudro seals and that has stopped any further damage.

If you regularly do a seal clean you'll be fine is my recommendation. (regularly depends on how often you use your forks!)

[i]it's happened to every pair of Fox forks ever made except for about 4[/i]

Yay, I'm one of the 4! Except I've got 2 pairs, so I'm 2 of the 4! Brill.

Hmmmm. Must find time this weekend to give my forks a bit of TLC...

Sam,

Please drop me an email mate - my pal as a 'as new' sanction/crown/steerer off a fox 36 for sale, he was keeping it as a spare but is now running Lyrik's

smithy7886 at yahoo dot com

Fox forks do need regular servicing, both user lower leg/seal and full services at or near to the specified intervals.
Saying that I've used Fox for the last 10 years or so and never had the legs go other than from crash damage. Still have a set of original floats that are ok on my wifes bike.

The new SKF low friction double lip seals are better than the older ones in terms of performance and sealing in conjunction with Kashima coat uppers longevity should be much better, but they still need to be looked after.

My next forks will be Fox as the new models with the FIT carts are some of the best available atm 😀

Yep happened to me, replaced the uppers at my cost, the new uppers creaked like a bastard at the crown so had them replaced under warranty - forks went on Ebay.

Never again.

Turn your bike upside down every now and again so the washer gets some oil soakage. Fox refused to service my borther in laws forks when he sent his off so they gave him some new but secondhand stantions

Mine have worn slightly after 1year and regular fox float lube on the wipers (5times)- not anywhere near as bad as yours, mine are just showing signs of wear on the inner air spring leg. I hadnt changed the seals, so replaced them as well as the wipers on my last service after noticing the wear.

My new build is now rock shox and I'm not going back to fox anytime soon. It peeved me off considering the effort I made to service them regularly.

Don't get me started on this.... 🙁
It took me about 8 months to kill my fox float 32s
I THOUGHT I was looking after 'em sufficiently by meticulously cleaning the top of the seal and the stanchion after every ride. I was wrong.

There's only two solutions:
1. Drop the lowers off and clean/lube at painfully regular intervals
or
2. Buy something that is actually fit for purpose, with a 3 year no-service-required guarantee - Marzzochi 44RC3Ti 😀

Happens to [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/im-sure-my-shock-pivot-shouldnt-look-like-thisnor-should-my-stanchions ]Magura[/url] too. 🙁

Happens to all forks to varying degrees

Happened to my Talas forks. I too thought I was looking after them okay. I now strip them down every couple of months. It's actually very easy and takes around 15 minutes. On the plus side, the forks are much plusher after the clean/lube etc. Just get used to doing it and save yourself £300!

36's - yes, after 3 years of use
40's - no, but rocks knackered the stanchions on those (nice Kashima ones and Fit 2 cartridge now)

Any fork which doesn't have much lubricating oil in the lower leg will need more regular servicing due to being less able to deal with 'diluteing'
any dirt that gets past the seals, that goes for all brands.

Seen pairs of RS die the same way* in under a year.

*i.e. ridden regularly with no servicing.

Yay, I'm one of the 4! Except I've got 2 pairs, so I'm 2 of the 4! Brill.

And I'm the third! My 32 Vanillas did 3 years and were still prefect. One service in that time, and maybe pop the seals and add oil twice a year on top of that.

That said, I wouldn't touch Fox TALAS with a barge pole. Not enough oil in 'em!

Happens to all forks to varying degrees

Peterpoddy, like I said the new Fox (kashima/skf seals) are alot better

I`ve never seen it, but then again I run 11 year old Marzocchis... 8)

Ohh, anybody wanna see THE WORST fork damage by neglect in THE WORLD?

LoCo, for that money I should bloody well expect so!!!! 🙂

I've still never spent more than £385 on a pair of forks, and I don't intend to start

Yes, bet I've got a better/ more damaged set 😉 Although I'm not posting the picture (not fox either)

I've got 3 sets of Fox and One has just started to wear on the seal, they are 7 years old tho.

OK, here we go:

[url= http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6105237833_21ae4f6b3e_o.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6105237833_21ae4f6b3e_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/6105237833/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6067/6105788156_f3a31e9c72_o.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6067/6105788156_f3a31e9c72_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/6105788156/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

Rebas. Obtained by me for spares. They were litererally full of stinky mud and black gunk. This didn't bother me, but I decided to take them apart. The stanchions had corroded to black, rough alloy. It took me nearly 2 hours to clean the internals up, and then I wet and dryed the stanchions down as smooth as I could (I was bored, it was a challenge to see if they would work) and put them backtogether again.
Well, they held air and actually worked! But the bushing play and sticktion has to bee seen to be believed, and they pee oil everywhere.
I laughed, took them off and hung them up in the garage where they remain. I've got a full spare set of internals and adjusters though! 🙂
They were actually worse than they look in the pic. The bottom pic is AFTER I'd sanded the corrosion off the stanchion!

Ha! Just checked 'em. Still holding air fine after about 6 months hung up! I'd use 'em in an emergency, TBH.

Ha ha good work, have been amazed over the years as to how much mud that it's possible to get into forks 😯

It's just a plain lack of maintenance, and prising up seals is just a half arsed bodge way of doing things, drop the lowers, clean and replace the oil. If you can't do this yourself or can't/don't want to pay someone else to do it don't buy them.

I reckon they've been in a canal for a few weeks, personally.....

I've worn out two pairs of 32 Vans, both lasted over 3 years, but I have to admit I didn't know how to look after them then.

I have another pair of 32 Vans and a pair of floats. I change the oil and seals once a year, and put in top grade fully synthetic motorcycle fork oil (Plutoline is my choice) and add more than the recommended amount - soak the foam seals to saturation etc and they have been superb.

Also have a pair of Rev's 426 coil on another bike, which are starting to wear regardless of servicing and lower lubes - about 3 years old. I would say not much in it regarding longevity, but the Fox feel much nicer on the whole and are noticably lighter imo!

Don't know if that helps any. I'd say you've been unlucky, and they haven't been best looked after.

Seems some people get problems with or without servicing, and others get no problems despite no servicing.

Maybe there jsut some manufacturing variability? I've bought some forks that weren't filled with enough lubricating oil from new.

Just got the new SKF seals fitted to Float 32s by Pedals in Edinburgh. Not ridden them yet but a big thumbs up to James in there for top class service.

I don't mean to disrespect anyone on here, but to be honest a lot of people, the way they run their suspension/take care of it do not deserve some of the forks they are buying!

I recently cycled (up and downy action ;)) a set of 36 TALAS with KAshima, and i swear i've felt better RST's! I'm not going to blame people with money who by Fox who have no idea about suspension, but it annoys me when they don't take care of their product, and when it fails, they complain!

Doing a quick clean/wipe of your seals and a bit of lube on the foam rings takes 5 minutes! Put this into perspective when you're next watching X-Factor/Come Dine With Me for an hour every week and see whcih one is the bigger waste of time.

It's bad design IMO: The bearing / interfacing surfaces of the forks are part of the main structure and therefore non-replaceable.

At least stanchions (and steerers) used to be bolt in and you could replace them individually. Now stanchions, crown and steerer are one piece it's uneconomical to replace them when they wear out.

I have some TALAS 36's that I'm about the swap the seals for Enduro ones, and clean everything up while I'm at it.

The Enduro fitting guide recommends using fully synthetic motor oil, I have some Castrol Magnatex 5w/40 (I think if I remember correctly) that I'm planning on using, does anyone else use motor oil? if so how are the results?

My problem was that while I was meticulous about cleaning the outside of the seals, I relied on LBSs for basic internals servicing. I was doing this every few months and all was well. Then I let it lapse for 8 months and the damage was done 🙁 My Bad.

The guys a BAB rotated the bushing fractionally to reduce further wear (grooves), but warned that the performance will start degrade now so not to expect them to run acceptably for more than another year.

* I've tried to get the lowers off myself using the method shown in the Mojo video, but they never "release" no matter how hard I wallop the re-fitted nut at the bottom. If I only I could have worked out how to do this, I would have done regular basic servicing myself.

I use fully synthetic engine oil and have done for years.

Buzz either make sure all the air is out or loosen/remove the preload cap.

Took me a few reads of various guides to get it straight in my mind, the 'loose' oil in each leg is there purely for lubrication, so the slicker it is and the 'clingier' to the stanchions it is the better, right?

Engine oil's OK as a substitite for the Float fluid, but surely you can't use it as the main damping oil? It will just foam and bubble won't it? Motorbike 10W fork oil will be fine, any brand. It's a pushbike not a full-on motocross weapon!

The damper carts are sealed and don't require regular servicing so no, not damper oil, although I do use it in open bath forks as well with no problems.

Does engine oil normally foam and bubble in an engine?

It's a pushbike not a full-on motocross weapon!

Exactly and engine oil is cheap, I can get a litre of fully synth in my local motor factors for less than a fiver.

Edit: I think some of the new Fox forks are open bath, but I'd probably still do what I'm doing.

I think it's the hydraulic action that makes the engine oil foam and bubble, losing the damping effect somewhat. I've been using EP80 gear oil as substitute for Fox Float fluid, but I think for the price of motorbike fork oil it's the best stuff to use in the damper, open bath or not.

neallyman - Member

Wouldn't necessarily disagree if you're talking about the fork lube bit but disgree with your sentiment. A 2minute bit of maintenance after each ride is all ANY fork needs.

Tell it to my mate who just had to replace his CSU on his 32s, he thought your approach was all they needed and they wore out in just over a year. These forks are delicate enough even if you give them proper routine servicing so recommending that anyone does less is not a good idea.

I don't mean to disrespect anyone on here, but to be honest a lot of people, the way they run their suspension/take care of it do not deserve some of the forks they are buying!

Maybe they think more expensive forks are better sealed and built, longer lasting and require less maintenance?

This thread explains why I went rigid in the fork dept 😉

he thought your approach was all they needed and they wore out in just over a year. These forks are delicate enough even if you give them proper routine servicing so recommending that anyone does less is not a good idea

Certainly wouldn't ever recommend ''that anyone does anything less''. In fact more. My approach is in [i]addition[/i] to oil changes and doing a proper service as prescribed. Proper seal maintenance should always be in addition to a 30minute oil change/foam ring clean and lube etc.

3rd set of 40's now and a couple of sets of 36's have all been fine by doing this. I like Fox forks for a multitude of other reasons so i can put up with the maintenance requirements as a consequent sacrifice.

I have lyrics too on my Enduro, and have tried boxxers as well. Rockshox also have their benefits, but also have their drawbacks. You pays your money and takes your choice but I can appreciate the good and bad in both manufacturer's forks.

Fair dos then- what you said was, "A 2minute bit of maintenance after each ride is all ANY fork needs." but if you mean that on top of the routine servicing then I agree with you.

Shirley fox should just put a sticker on every fork leg saying remove seals and lube after every 15 hrs

would save mistakes like those made above

how do you lift the seals without damaging them or the stanchions?

You lift the seals with a taped screwdriver, but according to the official fox guide you need 2 oils - a 7wt for cleaning and a 5ml pillow pack for the sponge. Mojo tell me that the 7wt is no longer recommended and the fox 10wt green oil should be used...have yet to buy any to try it out.

Jools fox suggest wrapping the screw driver in electrical tape and putting some on the stanchions in case you slip. With all that faffing it will be just as quick to take the lowers off and do it properly; you can take the foam wipers out and flush clean them and properly soak in float fluid. Just done mine, and will be fitting enduro seals next time around as everything I've read suggests they are much better than OE.

Yeah agree with Munqe-Chick, don't even bother with all that taping up screwdrivers etc and trying to prize them up with the lowers still on the stanchions.
It's easier, cleaner and less risky to just get the lowers off and do it properly.