It wasn't mechanical failure therefore it must have been driver failure.

Except it was some kind of vehicular failure in that there was diesel on the road. Am I correct in assuming that you believe the driver is at fault for not anticipating a diesel spill?

Last thread not appearing – BUMP!

got bored reading the bickering but I would like to say that I really hope the petrolheads do their tyre testing well away from me and the ones I love. I'm sure you are nice enough people and think you are safe, but you sound like accidents waiting to happen to me.

Can I say cock too?
Cock!
I once broke a pair of 2 week old SIDs wiping out on a diesel slick..
Leant into the apex, thought "that smells like di…" and then hit the deck.
Bent the steerer, and wounds with diesel in take a long time to scab up.

Goan: Diesel on the road is a mechanical failure. It's a failure of the interface between the tyre and the road.

Can I say cock too?
Cock!
I once broke a pair of 2 week old SIDs wiping out on a diesel slick..
Leant into the apex, thought "that smells like di…" and then hit the deck.
Bent the steerer, and wounds with diesel in take a long time to scab up.

Goan: Diesel on the road is a mechanical failure. It's a failure of the interface between the tyre and the road.

oops. I said that twice.

Jesus H Christ goan, I bet you're a great instructor, people must be so keen to pass their test and get the **** out of your car so they never see you again! I'd put the passenger side of the car into a lamp post to try and shut you up. Get off your high horse, preferably head first onto a hard surface. Ta!

To be fair to Goan, I bet he is actually a really nice guy in the flesh.

It certainly doesn't come across in any of his posts though.

bikewhisperer – Member
Goan: Diesel on the road is a mechanical failure. It's a failure of the interface between the tyre and the road.

But maybe in goan world its not called mechanical grip and he has never had an accident where it has been one of those things or maybe he is just a fan of the good old US and has to blame some one even if they are trying to help a fallen child back up.

njee20 – Member
Jesus H Christ goan, I bet you're a great instructor, people must be so keen to pass their test and get the **** out of your car so they never see you again! I'd put the passenger side of the car into a lamp post to try and shut you up. Get off your high horse, preferably head first onto a hard surface. Ta!

😆

has to blame some one even if they are trying to help a fallen child back up.

😆

Renton…….I'm not sure how tyres that feel flexy on the back will feel any better on the front. Am not sure, but the chances are that the weight distribution on a C-Max will be more towards the front, and you will then be asking the tyres to carry more load and also deal with the power from the engine & doing steering duties as well.

Shesh all this bickering, I've told you boys a million times to stop argueing. Where's coffeeking when we need him.

I'm here, though I'm not sure what help I'd be 😆 ! It seems the sensible points have been blown out of proportion and into tiny pieces for arguments sake. At the end of the day we know:
There was D on the road.
The tyres were new, the user new to the feel of them – they didnt feel right.
Other people succumbed to the D, so it's not in their imagination.
D can cause people to spin without excessive ooomph being used.
D can fall in small or large patches, not everyone passing can or will hit smaller patches. Certainly smaller spills can be only 6" wide and in the same line as the tyre motion, meaning if you're not in the 6" lateral window you may not even come into contact with it, but if you are, you could spin out of control.

So ultimately the point is:
It probably had nothing to do with the tyres.
It probably did have something to do with the D.
There's no way of knowing if his wife was driving like an idiot as the diesel spill may or may not have been hit and may or may not have been sufficient to cause a spin, so judgement on this cannot be made.

On a humorous side note, does anyone else think there's an extra S in this campaign that shouldnt be there?

Spills kills

njee20 – i thought about saying that I hope you die a slow and horrible death. But then I remembered I'm not that kind of person.

As for the rest of you muppets come back when you can back up your "i'm a brilliant driver and nothing is ever my fault attitude", until then stay the **** away from here because I quite like being able to return home at night without having been wiped out by someone who was testing the limits of their tyres.

Anyone ever thought that the limits of their tyres may be way beyond the limits of their ability? No – thought not.

As for the rest of you muppets come back when you can back up your "i'm a brilliant driver and nothing is ever my fault attitude

No one's saying that you ignorant moron, people are just suggesting that you don't know all the facts and that there are other things at play.

How do you post all day when you're driving a million miles anyway?!

I never said I hoped you died a slow, painful death. Just wish that you'd be less of a dickhead!

Edit: as for your last point, yes, I said that public roads are no place to be 'testing' your tyres. Whilst I can see the merit of doing such things somewhere secluded I've never felt the need personally.

On a humorous side note, does anyone else think there's an extra S in this campaign that shouldnt be there?

Spill kills? nah that doesn't make any sense.

On no, now smee will be annoyed he hasn't got the last word.

just been out and checked the load rating on the new tyres….

originals were 91v new ones are 94v

would that make much difference??

car is a 2.0focus cmax tdci

notably higher load rating = stiffer sidewalls. Might make the car feel more responsive with a slightly higher tendency to break away in a snap rather than progressively scrub, but the difference will be small. Small enough for me to suggest it was more than likely to be the D and a lack of awareness of the break-away starting, rather than the tyres just not gripping.

njee20 – have i done something to upset you personally? If I haven't – whats with the abuse?

renton – you still haven't told us where it happened.

coffeeking that goes against me saying they feel flexy then??

An average XL tyre would likely be stiffer than an standard load rated example but this is certainly not an absolute rule

As mentioned: Ford has strong ideas over how they expect their cars to perform hence the OE Standard load tyre could quite conceivably be stiffer than the replacement spec XL rated to match the steering dynamics they insist upon.
As Ford themselves say: "Feel the difference"…

have i done something to upset you personally?

I just find your attitude appalling. "I know better than you, I'm amazing, kiss my feet, your wife can't drive, I am GOD etc". It makes you sound like a total tosser. Sure I'm not alone in this opinion.

But hey, luckily I've already learned to drive and I've never going to become an instructor, so with a bit of luck our paths need never cross. I also hope you never post a thread asking for advice on anything, with a bit of luck people will rip you to shreds!

Flexy sidewalls could also be due to underinflated tyres.

renton – yes and no, people are notoriously bad at identifying car suspension/tyre problems/differences. A stiff sidewall tyre may feel "loose" depending on the situation, its quite easy to mix that up with flexy. The best ways I can identify how a rear tyre feels is the reaction of my ass. If it feels like the rear is on tip-toes round bends it's probably either more rigid than the last/pumped up too high or WAY WAY underinflated and virtually walking off the rim. Softer tyres tend to give a more secure feeling that makes you have increased confidence. Its hard to explain and something I think you only really "get" when you've used many sets of tyres on the same car, taken the same corners time and time again and noted the differences in tyre makeup. But at the same time it's possible that your higher load index tyres still have more flexy sidewalls than your old tyres with lower load index, it depends on how that tyre was made and by whome. Explaining the differences online is fairly hard. I'd drop a couple of psi from the tyre and see if it still feels the same, watching/minding for too much tread wear on the shoulders and too much heating on long runs. Vary your pressure by +- 2psi from standard and see which is best. Dont go too far and be careful while doing it.

njee20 – my attitude is fine. I am open, honest and take responsibility for my actions. I dont really care if people think I'm a tosser and make no apologies for telling things like I see them.

The question that I want to ask is why do people get upset to the point of wishing injury on others when someone doesn't agree with them? I am an expert on road safety, some of you are experts on IT. If someone asks for help with an IT problem they dont get torn to shreds and called all the cocks under the sun. I can use a computer, but i'm not an expert. Many of you can drive, but not many are expert drivers – some of you would do well to remember that.

Sure I'm not alone in this opinion.

Actually I'm with Goan, most of the drivers on here are coming across as the typical British motorist, impatient, ignorant and inattentive, not to mention constantly trying to pin the balme on others for their own failings.

I've hit a patch of diesel that I didn't see on a roundabout before, as much as I might decry the fact that I had to keep up with traffic and spend more time second guessing idiot drivers than I could looking at the road surface, its still ultimately my fault I hit the deck.

coffeking this is what its feels like on these new tyres……..

you could be going round a bend and all of a sudden it gets tighter/sharper so you add some more steering , the front goes round then the back end feels like its going to oversteer then actually settles if you see what i mean…?

they feel like they are rolling more ,like when you have to little psi in your rear bike tire.

does that make sense?

No road all of a sudden gets sharper – its been that way since the road was built.

Not entirely sure it was your fault though you so graciously accept it. If you cannot see it, it's fair to say you cant be expected to drive everywhere as if there were diesel there. So by process of common sense and elimination, it's not strictly your fault you hit the deck, unless the D was clearly visible from your riding position.

Clearly many people drive outside their capabilities, many people over-estimate their abilities and people underestimate risks. The question is how to position yourself in that triangle and where it is acceptable to take risks. There's a risk that someone will blow through a red light, but it's not common sense to assume that will always happen and slow to a near-halt when passing through that junction.

Renton – does indeed sound like you have particularly flexy tyres (could be the tread pattern or the sidewalls) or underinflated, but I suspect it's a trait of the tyre and not a faulty tyre. I know people who like tyres like that. I find they keep you feeling like you're on a knife edge guessing whether you're sliding or not. I also know drivers who drive with tyres like that and have no idea it feels like that, so you're obviously quite in touch with the feeling of the car. Have you actually thrown it round a late-night-carpark to see if it lets go more easily than you expect? I suspect it wont, yokos are fairly good tyres – you may just have to get used to the feel unless you want to change. Personally I'd try a few different tyre pressures (I always do on new tyres anyway) and see if it helps, but dont stray far from recommended, 5psi is a LOT in tyre terms – 5psi under can lead to excessive heating and cumulative tyre damage.

Goan …. eff off will you im trying to explain how the back end of my car feels .

imagine puling your car tighter into a turn.

you really are a top class cock mate.

njee20 – my attitude is fine.
In your own not so humble opinon.
As i said before i've seen your type of i'm an instructor so i know it all, and i've seem the bits of them after their big off. Just make sure you have it away from the rest of us.
"If you can do, teach!"

It is not acceptable to take risks on a public road. Try going to the track if you want to take risks.

Someone took a risk on the roads last week near here and this is what happened. VW driver took a risk.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8223777.stm

Renton – check the tyre pressures and check that you haven't taken the top coil off one of your springs.

Goan – youre always taking risks. It just depends where you draw the line. My personal point is that you should not force greater risk on others.

It is not acceptable to take risks on a public road

Of course it is

Goan – Member

njee20 – my attitude is fine. I am open, honest and take responsibility for my actions. I dont really care if people think I'm a tosser and make no apologies for telling things like I see them.

I am going to comment on this as we have both clashed badly and agreed strongly on stuff.

You come over very very arrogantly Goan – and have done in all your incarnations. I know thats a bit pot kettle black from me – I know I sound far more certain than I intend to be on stuff.

You go far too far in defending the indefensible. When caught out in hyperbole as in the million miles of driving or in other places where you have clearly been wrong you need to learn to admit it.

|You know your stuff about driving but you are far too black and white in your opinions on stuff. You often do exactly what you accused others of on the zoofighter thread.

Just lighten up a bit – try to see why sometimes tha vast majority of opinion is against you – you might have got the wrong end of the stick, you might have made a mistake.

I know this is perhaps a bit rich coming from me but I see a few of the same traits I get a tough time for in you.

Try to find a little humilty, try to look for the other persons point of view. I suspect you are actually very unsure of your position often – so argue furiously as you cannot bear to be proved wrong.

CK- we're going to have fun on your assessment mate. 😉

Goan. It's clear from lots of your posts that you're quite passionate about road safety, which is most welcome. Perhaps if you dispense your advice, which is generally good advice, with a bit more tact and humility you might find that people are far more receptive to it, which at the end the day is what you are trying to achieve.

does being an driving instructor trainer make you an expert in road safety? I kind of thought it made you an expert in instructor training….

CK- we're going to have fun on your assessment mate.

While it may get heated I'm sure it'll remain civil and reasoned 🙂 In serious question though, considering you're likely to see me at a time when there's traffic about and on reasonably busy roads, and when I have a passenger (by definition) I suspect you'll see me driving less riskily than I would on my own on deserted country roads (which has been my point from the start – dont increase anyone elses risks but still can enjoy the roads)?

Goan – Member

It is not acceptable to take risks on a public road. Try going to the track if you want to take risks.

This proves my point totally – you have to take risks when driving. Its about risk assessment and management as you should know.

What you actually mean is you should not be taking unneeded risks. Its a risk every time you get in a car. An idiot might come thru a red light and hit you, your tyres might blow, your engine might blow covering your tyres with oil, the car you are overtaking might swerve.

Driving is a risk and safe driving is about risk assessment and risk management.