[Closed] Please - Someone explain TDF!

Have you ever ridden behind anyone or anything on the road, bit easier? Have you ever played a team sport where you work together so, say, one person scores a goal?
Its a bit like that 🙂

[url= http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/understanding-the-tour-de-france-and-the-strategie.html ]here you go[/url]

They are all out of their collective skulls on drugs. They really don't know where they are.

You will find the answer somewhere in [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/please-someone-explain-tdf#post-2744601 ]here[/url] my friend.

The proper race is the mountains and the individual time trials generally.
A group rides faster than an individual ...much faster so breaking away wont really work as you get caught.
It lasts for 3 weeks so no point killing yourself on one day
you get specialists with certain people excelling at one thing - Cav at sprinting for example contador at cheating 😉 lets not get there.
the formations are usually for a reason
HTC go fast to stop people getting to the front Yellow jersey team saty at the fron to protect the yellow jersey etc
Tactics come into a bit.
The best riders also have domestiques who get there water etc and will sacrifice themselves for the leader [ best rider by say towing them up mountains [ riding with them] so they conserve energy for when ot really counts.
in the mountains you will see a proper race and the pack be ripped apart as the big guns let loose.

I don't race but ...

It's a tactical sport.

ever ridden on the road behind a few other riders, or drafted a bus ?
It's much faster for the same effort as part of a group, so individuals can't just ride away from the group - and they could easily be caught again if they did

so (unless you're riding up a mountain) you need collaboration to get away, usually with people from other teams

if you find yourself in the shit behind them all, say with a puncture, your teammates might help you catch back up to the pack (if you're a good rider with a chance of winning - if not, tough luck and DIY)

If you're a sprinter you want to arrive 250yards from the line near (but not at) the front, already travelling very fast but then you pull out and pedal like buggery. You can achieve this by following your fast but unsprinty teammates

(bah, much too slow - and slaughtered by coyote 😆 )

right. i'm far from an expert but...

yeah the team will give the top man a 'run in'

eg HTC run in cav for the sprints

whilst this is going on other teams are running for the yellow jersey. essentialy several races running concurrently which adds to the confusion.

It's more than one race going on at the same time. You've got the yellow, green, polka do and white jersey to race for and individual stage.

It's a team event, not an individual activity.

Simples

Thanks everyone, that makes more sense now. 😀

most teams consist of cyclists who are generally good at different things.

So.....
1/each team will have at least 1 good sprinter ( cavendish for instance). His job is to win stages, but only certain stages ( and now also intermediate sprints). For this he will receive alot of cash(which gets shared amonst the team as he is only the final piece in that teams jigsaw). The stages he wins will be stages where there is none or very little climbs as he is not a climber. This person will not win the tour, but will get the most points for his team in the sprints ( and also win a lovely green jersey)
2/ each team will have a captain, a guy who is a good allrounder and who is most likely to win the tour. He does not sprint for stage wins( unless he's the mighty Thor (or cadel) ) .These guys are generally great climbers and this is where the tour is generally won or lost. These guys therefore generally do f*ck all during each stage, no sprinting, no leading the peleton, he will simply sit in the peleton and get 'protected' by his team mates. His sole goal is to grab big time gaps in the climbs and therefore be the quickest guy between stage 1 and stage 21. He will always generally though finish in the main bunch. Remember if there is a bunch of 100 riders crossing the line, then they will all receive the same time as the first rider crossing the line as long as there is no gaps in the bunch finishing, so you could be 150 metres behind the winner but still get the same time
3/ each team will have some good tt'ists, and on certain tours this is where some like cancellera, who although is not in the same league as Contador in climbing ( weight plays a part here), he can win individual time trial stages by 1, 2 or 3 minutes which helps him win tours ( helps, not the main reason why)
4/ Each team will consist of riders who's job is not too win stages or sprints but to protect there strong guys, there 'domestique'. His job is too lead there teams into the final km's of each stage, to help there riders who have punctured to get back into the bunch, to grab feed bottles and food and pass it around, basically do all the messy jobs but are probably the important people in the team. Get some strong riders like that ( like Scott HTC) and your team will have a very good tour.

So, you can win the tour, like i think 2 years ago, but not actually win any stages because overall between stage 1 and stage 21 you are the fastest rider. Its very much a team sport where all the team work towards there team winning. Cavendish for instance this year has been vocal towards how amazing his team has worked to putting him the right place at the right time. HTC are prob at the minute the best team out there BUT will not win the tour

Oh I get it now, obviously would be much better if it was an individual thing, where the fastest all round cyclist won, and not spoilt by a dressing it up/diluting the race as a 'team' effort

thats how it does work, they just have a team to help them do it 🙂

Couldn't they all start at one minute intervals with no drafting allowed ?
That would make it a much better race.

Oh I get it now, obviously would be much better if it was an individual thing, where the fastest all round cyclist won, and not spoilt by a dressing it up/diluting the race as a 'team' effort

I try to follow it every year, but still find it a bit confusing. Speshly when you switch it on and it's just a big bunch pedalling away for ages and nothing happens. Comes into it's own in the mountains though..

MidlandTrailquestsGraham - Member
Couldn't they all start at one minute intervals with no drafting allowed ?
That would make it a much better race.

@Radoggair: I get what you're saying & a great explanation too, thanks. Something I don't get though... If the Captain is protected by the Peleton & does nothing special until he spots his time to climb, he must leave the Peleton, right?

If said Capitan gains a good lead on his team & gets to the top of the mountain first, how is he protected after that? Does he slow down & wait for protection to catch up?

Whilst we're talking about tactics does anyone else think that Cav potentially going to Sky would be a bad move for the team and / or Cav? Sky have stated that it is their goal to win the GC within 5 years but in order to do that the team bust be built around the GC contender (at the moment that is Wiggins). On the other hand currently Cav has HTC built around him, if he joined Sky I can't see them killing themselves like they did today to deliver him to the line when they also have to get the GC contender over the mountains a few days later.

[i]Oh I get it now, obviously would be much better if it was an individual thing, where the fastest all round cyclist won, and not spoilt by a dressing it up/diluting the race as a 'team' effort [/i]

it becomes more of an individual thing in the high mountains. theres a point in the climb where it becomes every man for himself, its riveting stuff to watch. Contrador will attack and we will see who can live with him. it will smash the peleton to pieces. Can't wait 🙂

If said Capitan gains a good lead on his team & gets to the top of the mountain first, how is he protected after that? Does he slow down & wait for protection to catch up?

Whilst we're talking about tactics does anyone else think that Cav potentially going to Sky would be a bad move for the team and / or Cav?

If said Capitan gains a good lead on his team & gets to the top of the mountain first, how is he protected after that? Does he slow down & wait for protection to catch up?

Don't forget, on the mountain stages, the finish is often at the top, so as DS says, they start the next stage all together.
Also, the time gains on the climbs are very often huge compared to flat stages, so the leader at the top can often stay ahead if the finish isn't at the top.

@ Don Simon: No offence meant at all but that doesn't answer my question really... Unless what you're saying is the finish line is at the top of the mountain & he doesn't need any more protection.

Remember, I'm a total beginner in the rules & tactics. 😉

the big stage tend to end at the top of the most brutal climbs.
Where there are multiple mountains the flats or the descents tend to mean it is still better to be in a group.
Even in the climbs they have domestiques who stick with them till they are shot.
you can take say 5-10 mins from someone in a big climb[ not the top riders generally but it is not unheard of]. The leader usually gains minutes over rivals on the stages that end witha climb.
lets use Alped'Huez as an example
[img] [/img]
top cyclists will do sub 40 minutes [pantani is quickest irc about 37 mins] for this averaging about 20 kmh. 5 % better equals a about 2 - 3 minutes faster roughly hence races can be won here. Contador cannot really break away on the flat as the other team riders will either catch him or wheel suck [ sit behind him letting him do the hard work] 5% slower and you can probably hold his wheel with some work from others.
The same applies to the time trial as well. Big time wins for the fastest ride. To win the tour you need to be able to climb and TT so you are both flat out fast and very strong.
or you MTB and go to the pub and eat cake.

Couldn't they all start at one minute intervals with no drafting allowed ?

Thanks again all of you, it makes MUCH more sense now!!! 😀

To make it *really* simple...

There are 4 races going on. Overall, mountain, sprint and young. But the important one is overall. Lance always wins that one. Sprint is always won by Cav and young is always won by wiggins, even this year despite him losing.
Spanish people cheat but still win.
French people always lose.
Brits always come in the top three but they will never win.
Americans win everything but because they're American, nobody really believes they've won.

Wear the wrong colour socks one morning and you are out of the special club. It's that ****ing simple.

You can be the most awesome person on the planet (like Lance is) but you will still lose unless your team sacrifice themselves for you. All of them. Dead. So you can stand on the podium.

Sometimes you will tell one of your team members to prostrate himself over the finish line to help you win. He will almost certainly die doing this but he will have to do it. That's the rules.

If you're the leader of the team, you're the leader of the team. If one of your team gets excited (because you went and hired europeans), and shoots off and wins something, everyone wil lsmile and be happy for him but he'll never work in this game again, unless you call scrubbing cycling short croteches for 3 weeks, working.

All you need to know is that Lance is the most awesome man that ever walked the earth and even if someone else wins, they only did it because he decided to let them do it.

Also, everyone takes drugs. Some of them get caught doing it it but everyone takes drugs. Winning that particular battle is all about how good your doctor is.

i 'understood' it for years, but this is the first year I've watched with any road racing experience (well, one sportive 😳 ) and it has suddenly become twice as interesting, as I know EXACTLY how easy it is to leave the bunch, but how hard it is to stay away. The difference between being in front and sitting behind someone is pretty significant.

Wait, why is the guy with the yellow jersey not at the front?

Whilst we're talking about tactics does anyone else think that Cav potentially going to Sky would be a bad move for the team and / or Cav? Sky have stated that it is their goal to win the GC within 5 years but in order to do that the team bust be built around the GC contender (at the moment that is Wiggins). On the other hand currently Cav has HTC built around him, if he joined Sky I can't see them killing themselves like they did today to deliver him to the line when they also have to get the GC contender over the mountains a few days later.

Good question, most teams would go for GC or Green, but not both. There are exceptions i am thinking of Eric Zabel, and Cav has shown he can win stages without a leadout train, but it is a much harder way. So Sky would be left with either going for Green or Yellow, but as a thought next year is the Olympics, would Wiggins go for a track medal or would he go for the Tour, he isn't getting younger his chance at the tour is running out.

@ Don Simon: No offence meant at all but that doesn't answer my question really... Unless what you're saying is the finish line is at the top of the mountain & he doesn't need any more protection.

13thfloormonk - I'm sort of the same. I have watched it for years on and off. I remember watching it as a kid too but never really understanding it properly. Now I've done some racing myself I appreciate more what it is they are doing.

I have a huge amount of respect for the guys who go off the front on breaks as that requires legs of steel to outpace the peleton for 100miles+. Domestiques as well - seeing Boassen Hagen and G wait for Brad shows there commitment to his GC ambition. The were prepared to lose their standing and then flog themselves to get him back into the bunch.

And the speeds! Cavendish in the sprint reaches nearly 50mph Literatlly touching shoulder to shoulder, the bunch can "cruise" at 30mph and I'd need new shorts the speed they come down the mountains at.

Wait, why is the guy with the yellow jersey not at the front?

I would have thought a former king of the mountains would know this? 😉

most teams would go for GC or Green, but not both

A very good point - I see this as Cav's big advantage over Thor this year, HTC are after one thing, and one thing only, Garmin/Cervelo have mixed priorities between Green and GC.

I have a sneaky feel that Leopard/Trek will come into their own in the mountains - the Schleck brothers can double up effectively and head for either GC or polka dot.

my predictions:

Contador in yellow
Cav for green
Frank Schleck for polka