Internet brawling is fun. Plus, you can say anecdotes that cant be disproved like the time I fought 10 Pigmy Dwarf warriors singlehandedly and pulled off their heads leaving their bodies everywhere.

sorry TJ you misunderstand, im not saying that we have too many doctors and nurses, i am saying that there are too many hangers on.

i dont know the nhs, but im talking about your suppliers contracts, your IT contracts, your cleaning and maintenance contract. I have first hand knowledge of both the IT and maintenance areas.

each was negotiated in order that the number of 'civil servants' working for the nhs could be seen to be reduced. In reality what happens is the nhs is bent over and shafted royally by private sector companies.

Soobalias – the problem with your view is that this work needs tto be done somewhare – it would be better done in house – cheaper – but we still need the staff to do it. What you are talking about is a tiny % of the total costs – miniscule

it is a bit of a myth – the NHS spends less on managemant and support services including the type you mention than any comparable system

As someone who's worked in the private sector, mainly on a freelance basis, I've only had one experience of the public sector. And it left me genuinely gobsmacked.

I was working in a studio, at some cost to the taxpayer, on a freelance basis. They appear to have got me in purely on the basis that they had a 'proper' job to do. And none of them could really be arsed doing it.

I sat there for 2 weeks and watched, while working, 5 designers (I use the term loosly) and 2 administrators (again: I use the term loosly) do the grand total of **** all! And I do mean absolutely **** all!!! Oh… Apart from internet shopping, actual shopping (they'd go out in pairs for a wander for a few hours, then come back with bags of shopping).

It was staggering to witness. And the further up the food chain you got, the worse it got. Not one of them would have lasted 5 minutes in a commercial studio environment. Seriously. They'd have been sacked by lunchtime! A fact, i suspect, that every one of them was more than aware of.

I'm sure this is by no means universal, but I think of this every time I hear public sector unions bleating about how hard done to they are

8 years working for insurance / banking, 2 years civil service.

Pension for new starters isn't as great as it used to be.

You need to remember CS get paid less than PS for the same roles.

Over the last 3 years the pay deal here has been 2% every year. I was getting 5-7% per annum with the bank.

The real problem with the CS is the longtermers, who will gain massively when the finally are made redundant/retire due to excessive benefits under the old systems and currently do very little. People here are taking VER/VES and are getting payouts of 6.5 times. That is stupid.

I largely agree that on the whole most civil servants I have met in the last 2 years are pretty useless, but that is down to poor leadership and management. There is a culture of shipping £1000 a day consultants in who have little idea, instead of paying the going rate to recruit half decent people in or develop their own staff.

Do I agree with a pay freeze? No (I wouldn't would I?). They could cut millions by simply cutting contractors and working smarter. I also don't agree with everyone getting the same pay rise whether they work hard or do bugger all.

Will I be staying – nope – like someone said if you don't like it leave. I will be.

Apart from internet shopping, actual shopping (they'd go out in pairs for a wander for a few hours, then come back with bags of shopping).

Funny that. alittle birdy told me some depts regularly have long dinner breaks (1.5hrs+) and lots of other stuff. Gobsmacked.

If my pay increases are supposed to be higher than the private sector I reckon some bugger is getting my share…..whoever you are I want it back.

Bonuses and pay increases for my circle of friends in the private sectors have been significantly higher than mine in past years.

Suppose many of us speak only from personal circumstances but I find it hard to believe that shop floor NHS are getting it that good.

I do see more managerial roles within the systems I work in so suppose that could be where the money is being earned.

Within my service many jobs have been re-graded from Band 6 or 7 down to Band 5.

Ten years ago doing the same job I would have been on £10-12K more than current banding, but my job is not seen as important or specialist as I have no budgetery responsibility (this was seen as a key marker for higher banding not the Nursing skills you bring to a job).

We also have the farce of increments within a band which sees my wife, a Ward Sister, earning £5K less than more time served Nurses under her. Yes, she will eventually out earn them but it will take 5 years to match them and another, I think, 4 years to reach her band potential. This method sees the NHS rewarding time served staff and punishing forward thinking motivated staff.

Anyhow, we are not going to solve any of it here so I better go to work.

TBH, most public servants (apart from Nurses) are no more capable than the average person working in McDonalds.

I hope you're pension gets raped like Brown did for everyone elses

Lmfao, so true, mostly overpaid, useless & financed by the hard work of others, time to join the real world, just for a start drop the public sector pensions gravy train 😡

keep your head down

keep your job

save the fight for another year

So if you think that all public servants have great pensions, cushy & secure well paid jobs……. why aren't you one!

the truth is most public servants are grossly underpaid & undervalued until such time they are needed. Their pensions are contributed towards by the employee and are FAR from what most think they are ………………… the real truth is far from what the 'Daily Fail' spits out with such venom & is believed by such ignorant idiots who would never consider working in the public sector because the wages are so awful!

please don't fall into the trap being laid by our political leaders so they can make political gain from others misery!

TBH, most public servants (apart from Nurses) are no more capable than the average person working in McDonalds.

I hope you're pension gets raped like Brown did for everyone elses

Lmfao, so true, mostly overpaid, useless & financed by the hard work of others, time to join the real world, just for a start drop the public sector pensions gravy train

What, like that petesgaff on the cancer thread who's a teacher.

**** freeloader, eh?

Only works half the year and will now be off for a few months pushing up the average public sector sickness.

Never happen in the private sector, they weed out dross like this, if you can't do the work then **** off.

EDIT: My missus just pointed out that he does work in the private sector so it'll be ok – they can just sack him and get someone else in.

Thank god for that, eh?

SirJonLordofBike1

So who is going to look after the elderly and frail? Who is oing to open the libraries? Who is going to attempt to ensure children don't get battered? Who is going to clean the streets and remove the rubbish

You are a prime plonker sir!

The false anger on this site is staggering at times but well done dangerousbeans you've hit a whole new level.

That's right dangerousbeans I was slagging off pete for being a teacher and having cancer 🙄

Idiot

No, many on here were slagging off public sector workers who MAY become sick, in your ideal world would you pay them long term sick or do what many private sector employers do?

I was merely pointing out that the likelihood is that his private employer will **** him off rather than look after him, and that is the standard that many on here seem to think is the correct course.

TJ, ZaNu Labour have failed children at every level (Baby P etc) as for the rubbish on the streets, maybe you could ask the people of Leeds the same question

ZaNu Labour have failed, again. Get over it

So what is your experience of real day to day child protection issues beyond the media?

Jesus wept, I can see why you're called dangerous

Lmfao, so true, mostly overpaid, useless & financed by the hard work of others, time to join the real world, just for a start drop the public sector pensions gravy train

"join the real world" = Argument FAIL

And what would your solution be for the rubbish strewn streets of Leeds, discard those who aren't doing the job?

Lanesra – you are either a rotton poor quality troll or a badly deluded thicko

Myself I think you are thick

Utter idiot you are – you need to join the real world

Anyone who works in healthcare will tell you that the increases in funding the last 12 years have improved it greatly

Anyone who works in healthcare will tell you that the increases in funding the last 12 years have improved it greatly

Yeah, but what do they know? They live in an imaginary world barely managing to contribute to the real world.

Lanesra

"your a shithouse – I've thrown my real name/life up here – yours was easy to find"

I've given you almost 24 hours. What is my name? Is it really arsenail?

😆

I work for a huge global company (IMI) ultimately, they are very rich, however, they are at the mercy of investors, so in a nutshell..
IMI buy up companies that fit their portfolio.
The company I work for are owned by IMI, investors in IMI want a quick return on their cash.
So IMI invests the investors cash across companies within its group.
To make this cash work hard for the investor (and IMI) we have to work to very close budgets and every penny spent in making our widgets has to be accounted for, we are therefore reliant on being an attractive investment to the investors during the current recession.
I doubt wether or not if the government were to freeze pay or not that I will be seeing a pay rise anyway this year. (I have just returned tonormal working week after being on short time since Feb) I am just thankful I am not related to the car industry as the workers in these factorys and their suppliers have felt the brunt in the engineering world. I think of builders and the support services that the building trade employs as well at this time.. a whole lot of people out there are having a hard time. No pay rise will not upset me.

I'm guessing quite a few here are feeding on the teat of the state, hardly surprising given the size of our public sector, so go for it, rant, call names, spout your right on student bs ideology, you are right the public sector is well known for its efficiency, it's synonomous with effective and efficient solutions delivered by people who are by no means underperformers. 😆

Clearly I'm sure there are many good people, but lets face it the public sector is institutionally in-efficient and swamped with underperformers who couldn't survive in the private sector, end off.

go for it, rant, call names, spout your right wing student bs ideaology

You're just jealous that they can spell Ideology.

……. and the private sector is enormously efficient?

Lanesra= thick scouse git

Haven't Sebastard Coe and his mates "lost" at least 100m so far?

Now that's slack.

SirJohn,

the thing is I'm a bloody hard working Nurse who does loads of work with others from allied disciplines – OT, Physio, Social Work, Psychiatry. Psycholgy – within our team, and others such as Health Visitors, Midwives, GP's, District Nurses etc.

Most (but not all) are also hard working and conscientious, go well beyond the call of duty and collectively have saved/improved thousands of lives.

Have worked with Social Workers carrying 100plus caseloads yet expected to visit regular and miss nothing.

Have worked with a Physio seriously ill but not wanting to go for her treatment 'cos she was worried what would happen to her patients.

Nurses who come to work looking shite cos they've been up all night worrying about a case (that's sometimes me).

And all we ever get is complaints, criticism and attacks from outside our professions, people telling us we're overpaid, overpensioned, lacking in 'real world' skills right through to incompetent if we are ever human and miss something in that one case in a thousand (or whatever).

It does grate after a while.

SirJonLordofBike1

So who is going to provide the services that the old, the vulnerable and the sick rely on?

I do so hope you get sick and come under my care

lol, spelling corrected. AP perhaps just watch!

……. and the private sector is enormously efficient?

Apparently yes, aP.

Although I was under the impression that the whole global recession was as a result of the failures of the private sector.

And in in comes internet hardman Dr Doolittle. Still waiting for the email

If you really want mail me your number and I'll meet where ever you want. You can even start a new thread on the forum

TJ, ZaNu Labour have failed children at every level (Baby P

So anything done by anyone employed by the government is their fault? Would that stand up in court?

Lansera given your propensity to offer anyone out in a schoolboy fashion can we just all agree that you are the cOck of STW and leave it at that?

wow, this thread has stirred

CaptJon's first post summed it up. As much as it is inefficient we are reliant on the public sector, screw with it too much and their will be consequences for us all. It's a bit like the banking sector except the handouts come in different ways i.e. less dramatic. We are all reliant on aspects of the public sector to some degree, whether it be directly or the fact it is propping up parts of the county. The private sector needs it, perhaps it is a beast that has grown too big but it's here now and we have to manage it. I think a year's pay freeze is not the end of the world and the inefficiency needs to be cleared up but those claiming they are all work shy wonders how many of you have complained when dealing with bohemoth private organisations (insurance companies, (non-privatised) utilities, supermarkets, trading websites, software manufacturers etc) and their incompetence.

the thing is I'm a bloody hard working Nurse who does loads of work with others from allied disciplines – OT, Physio, Social Work, Psychiatry. Psycholgy – within our team, and others such as Health Visitors, Midwives, GP's, District Nurses etc.

Most (but not all) are also hard working and conscientious, go well beyond the call of duty and collectively have saved/improved thousands of lives.

Have worked with Social Workers carrying 100plus caseloads yet expected to visit regular and miss nothing.

Have worked with a Physio seriously ill but not wanting to go for her treatment 'cos she was worried what would happen to her patients.

Nurses who come to work looking shite cos they've been up all night worrying about a case (that's sometimes me).

And all we ever get is complaints, criticism and attacks from outside our professions, people telling us we're overpaid, overpensioned, lacking in 'real world' skills right through to incompetent if we are ever human and miss something in that one case in a thousand (or whatever).

It does grate after a while.

All that is the fault of ZaNu Labour though. Once Dave gets in you'll notice an improvement

I'll meet where ever you want.

Oh, you talk so smooth but you never deliver. Twice now I've waited for you. I feel like I'm being used. 😳

Anyway, what's my name?

Lol @ ernie.
As a private sector person providing services to both public and private sector clients there're amazing similarities in both.

Lanesra,

No fan of New Labour myself but I really doubt that things will be better for me when the Conservatives get in.

TBH I've seen lots of improvements in the NHS under New Labour, even though I don't think they've done much else of use.

My main gripe is with public attitude towards the Health/Social Care professions, an attitude I expect to worsen over the next decade.

If you really want mail me your number and I'll meet where ever you want. You can even start a new thread on the forum

LOL, what a complete and utter dick.